Public Sector Strike 30/11

The accident was caused by unauthorised tests being run before accident-preventing modifications had been installed. The train was being driven manually at the time”

Ah, that isn’t a very good account of what actually happened; I remember it as the station was right next to my school. The driver was ordered to crash the train into the buffers, which as it turned out weren’t adequate to actually stop the train. Fortunately no-one was hurt.

However:

Serco Limited (Serco) the operator of the Docklands Light Railway were today fined £450,000 and ordered to pay £43,773 costs, following a prosecution for a serious health and safety offence brought by the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR).

The incident resulted in the death of a member of the public, Robert Carter, who fell onto the track and was struck by a train. Today’s sentencing follows a guilty verdict at Southwark Crown Court on 30 April 2010.

The ORR prosecution followed an incident on 2 April 2007 at All Saints DLR station. During an altercation between Mr Carter and another person, Mr Carter was pushed and fell onto the track. A short time later he was struck by a train and fatally injured.

ORR investigated and found that Serco had an inadequate procedure in place for stopping trains in an emergency. The company allowed control room staff to decide whether to stop trains based partly on CCTV images. The CCTV system was not designed or intended for this purpose.

Basically, the automatic systems weren’t adequate. Had a human being been driving that train, that accident would not have happened.

t’wundred?

v8ninety – Member
I’ll vote Derekrides… He hasn’t got any more of a clue how to fix it than the rest of us, but at least he admits as much.

Why thank you V890, er as it happens i do have a bit of a cunning plan, first it involves me writing a book called ‘My Struggle’ then I need to organise a sort of National Socialist Party, I’m looking for lieutenants right now, then we need to target a minority group everyone hates, I’m thinking road bikers, mobilise the nation against them (All bankers are road bikers), if you could help with the final solution bit, build some camps, maybe Poland way, talk about some extra living room….

oh oh

😯 Perilously close to Godwin’s, that…

Perilously close to Godwin’s, that…

New definition of “perilously close”

😉 see how easy it can happen.. Road biking bankers

Well, he didn’t actually say the name.

Sorry to drag things back on track, but surely Public sector workers don’t have to pay into the pension, they can opt out? Current benefits are set, and they can look into their own pension arrangements.

Or find another job in the private sector. Would that work for them?

ScottChegg, Yeah, seeing as the government wants to move the goalposts, can I have my contributions (employee and employer) that have been paid in so far back then, so I can chose where to invest them instead? Whats that, the governments gone and spent em on war and banks bailing out the private sector and such? The swines.

Edited for added trollbaitiness

So what level of pension per annum is acceptable to the public sector haters?

What do the private sector bods think is reasonable for me to have or to expect anything is unreasonable. I will have paid 11% of my monthly pay for 30yrs?

Go on, tell me how much is too much!

or another way

How much is a reasonable amount to live on in my retirement?

V8ninety – you are probably aware but just in case:

From Hutton:

Ex.9 Protecting accrued rights is a prerequisite for reform both to build trust and
confidence and to protect current workers from a sudden change in their pension benefits
or pension age. It is also right that those closest to retirement will be least affected by any
changes to scheme design.

Recommendation 4: The Government must honour in full the pension promises that
have been accrued by scheme members: their accrued rights. In doing so, the Commission
recommends maintaining the final salary link for past service for current members.

Bruneep – a slightly tangential argument. If, as in the mid part of last century, the government (of whichever party) chooses to reduce the debt by maintaining IR below the rate of growth (which I suspect is what they will try to do) then the annuity income you will get from your pension pot will be pretty poor whatever the size of the actual pot.

But the tragedy of this recent period is those who have been financially sensible have been screwed royally.

THM – what happened to not getting involved 😛

See AGW would have been more fun 😉

But the tragedy of this recent period is those who have been financially sensible have been screwed royally.

This.
THIS.
My Personal Debt ammounts to a medium sized fixed rate mortgage and a small 0% loan on a sofa. No credit cards, no car loan. My choice. I chose my career, in part, because whilst understanding that I would never get rich, I would be able to provide modestly for my family and be able to retire at a point that I wasn’t monumentally knackered, Hopefully. Now they want to change that.

I’m ANGRY that a relatively small number of MONUMENTALLY stupid and greedy rich people have screwed up the global economy by employing a fiscal model that would see a private citizen bankrupt within a year, yet no one seemed (or wanted to) to realise at the time that it was all going to go tits up.

Ands whats worse, is whilst we all attack each other and fight over the scraps of the broken economy, those same small number of rich powerful people are laughing all the way to the bank.

There will be no winners in this economic tradgedy. There may be a few greedy players at the top which is an abhorrence. The reality is that all of us will have to accept a reduction in our living standards for the forseeable future.

No one has an automatic right to continual pay increases and unaffordable benefits.

The unions need to realise this otherwise all they will do is create the need for further job losses either for their members or indirectly for others.

There will be no winners in this economic tradgedy.

If only that was true. I think you will find that there are more than a few laughing all the way to the bank…………..literally.

So. Anyone for a beer? Woody’s paying.

There will be no winners in this economic tradgedy.

There’s always winners. They just know when its a good idea to keep their head down, is all. You only have to check out the sheer amount of conspicuous wealth around to realise that some people are doing very well indeed, thankyou. (and I’ll bet they aint in the public sector, either)

Beer? Ah go on then, I’ll have a guinness, cheers! 8)

Ands whats worse, is whilst we all attack each other and fight over the scraps of the broken economy, those same small number of rich powerful people are laughing all the way to the bank.

It’s worse than that. They’re now installing unelected prime ministers to do their bidding.

v8ninety – Member
But the tragedy of this recent period is those who have been financially sensible have been screwed royally.

This.
THIS.
My Personal Debt ammounts to a medium sized fixed rate mortgage and a small 0% loan on a sofa. No credit cards, no car loan. My choice. I chose my career, in part, because whilst understanding that I would never get rich, I would be able to provide modestly for my family and be able to retire at a point that I wasn’t monumentally knackered, Hopefully. Now they want to change that.
I’m ANGRY that a relatively small number of MONUMENTALLY stupid and greedy rich people have screwed up the global economy by employing a fiscal model that would see a private citizen bankrupt within a year, yet no one seemed (or wanted to) to realise at the time that it was all going to go tits up.

Ands whats worse, is whilst we all attack each other and fight over the scraps of the broken economy, those same small number of rich powerful people are laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes, we are on the same page really aren’t we.

There are lots and lots and lots of folk who also feel this way, so how on earth do we motivate each other to actually do something about it I wonder… All around my world I’m watching businesses fail, people being laid off, mainly down to bank intransigence with credit, they have the gall to tell us that our world is risky, when it is only risky a) because of their initial activities and b) because they won’t help us to help ourselves because now we’re too risky. Talk about catch 22.

Every pub, cafe, business, you go to and chat t the owners or staff all report the same discontent, and still they lecture on about austerity. What we fundamentally need is some sort of leadership with a plan and a promise of sun filled uplands, we know they have to do what they have to do, what we don’t need to constantly hear about is how much longer it is going to continue for.

I’m sorry I’m off on another rant now – apologies, it does wind me up so.

Junkyard – Member
THM – what happened to not getting involved

See AGW would have been more fun

I know silly me!! I am truly giddy now!!

Still resisting AGW – too painful to re-open that can.

Repeat note to self – avoid any economic/political threads on STW!!!!

Drac – Moderator

So. Anyone for a beer? Woody’s paying.
No matter what state the nations economics are in, I’m still an Aberdonian at heart and I seem to have misplaced my wallet 😉

Bruneep – 30 years at 11% would generate a pension of at most 30% of final salary in a money purchase scheme. That is the problem with pensions they are very expensive in a low inflationary enviroment.

i’m just not convinced you have the general public’s backing on this.

Probably don’t because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.
How many of the general public, like myself, are basing their opinions on real life experiences in the hands of incompetent public workers? Not everyone has their opinions formed for them by the press, Tandem, right wing or left wing.

He apologised for saying that earlier DS, I’m sure he did…..

I’m looking forward to by day off next week. If security is also on strike they’ll shut the place and we don’t even lose a day’s pay.

He apologised for saying that earlier DS, I’m sure he did…..

Fair enough, but I’m not reading all the krap between then and now to find out, anyway killfile (adult version) ensures my post will not offend anyone. 😛

How many of the general public, like myself, are basing their opinions on real life experiences in the hands of incompetent public workers?

Isn’t that a problem in itself? Opinions tend to be based around what ‘the public’ perceive to be your typical ‘public servant’ with years of stereotyped bowler hatted numbskull imagery exacerbated by personal experiences with the bureaucratic death zone of local and national adminstrations. My experience is that I have encountered an equal number of muppets in both camps.

There are a huge number of others who do a very fine job in the public sector who are rarely given any credit.

My experience is that I have encountered an equal number of muppets in both camps.

I concur.

My heart goes out to that public sector worker who would’nt empty my bin this morning, because there was a tiny corner of a bin bag sticking out of the lid!

“Isn’t that a problem in itself? Opinions tend to be based around what ‘the public’ perceive to be your typical ‘public servant’ with years of stereotyped bowler hatted numbskull imagery exacerbated by personal experiences with the bureaucratic death zone of local and national adminstrations. My experience is that I have encountered an equal number of muppets in both camps.”

There are a huge number of others who do a very fine job in the public sector who are rarely given any credit.

Good point well made.

Its a shame the pensions in the public sector are beeing considered as a group. They are in fact very different. In fact renumeration as a whole is very different. NHS pensions were reviewed in 2008 and we increased our contributions then to avoid a pension deficit. Other pensions were not considered in this way (to my knowledge). That isnt to say a further review isnt warranted it clearly is but to lump apples and pears together in this way is a mistake in my view.

I support premise of protest on this issue. I feel it wrong to act in the manner the g’ment are doing. I’m not sure it will make a difference but its reasonable to demonstate the depth of feeling.

teachers was reviewed millcar. No risk of any open ended taxpayer liability

My heart goes out to that public sector worker who would’nt empty my bin this morning, because there was a tiny corner of a bin bag sticking out of the lid!

😯 A public sector worker empties your bins ?! (although obviously not this morning) ……whereabouts do you live ?

BTW, it won’t get any better when it’s finally privatised…..I can assure you.

Skimmed thru the middle parts.. But was looking at Andyps comments.. The one that Drac commented on, where was there an insult in that..? The “w in Wikipedia” part or “bless”? Someone had, I believe already patronised him by using the latter in response to one of his posts..
Anyways, I’m in a union, and I voted for the action. I work for the ambulance service and was having a bit of a crisis of conscience about actually striking. We’re exempt from the action thankfully so I won’t need to strike. Think nurses are the same? Seems like a sensible decision to me bearing in mind public opinion (phew)..

Not sure why you skimmed the important parts and picked on that one, you might want to go back and read some of the other stuff. Amongst the normal rants of lazy public sector workers go and get a proper job there’s some good comments by both views.

. I work for the ambulance service and was having a bit of a crisis of conscience about actually striking. We’re event from the action thankfully so I won’t need to strike. Think nurses are the same? Seems like a sensible decision to me.

Where you read/hear that? From what I seen we’re not.

I believe that UNISON has a nationwide emergency cover protocol :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DkD_iA3yNYoJ:www.unison.org.uk/news/printablepage.asp%3Fdid%3D13675+unison+emergency+protocol&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

It sounds as if there should better communications between the shop-floor and full-time officials/regional offices. It works both ways really.

geologist – Member
My heart goes out to that public sector worker who would’nt empty my bin this morning, because there was a tiny corner of a bin bag sticking out of the lid!

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

But he will have double the load next week, and will have lost days pay as well.

Perhaps you should remind him why he went on strike.

We do need better communication I’d I love the know where they’d find enough registered Paramedics to cover all parts of the country as it’s just not possible.

I haven’t heard anything definite either and neither had the union rep I spoke to yesterday.

It’s was my understanding that the exemptions are negotiated at national level within the framework but This Unison link only mentions negotiation regarding cover levels.