What’s not to like?

😀

I couldn’t live with my conscience if I crossed a picket-line, unless I was a designated essential service. Because that would make me a scab.

I say do you still live in the 80’s?

Oh blimey! Its all getting a bit 1980’s. Quick! Hide!

Edit: Frodo beat me to it!

….here in the good old cradle of democracy

You live in Greece ? ……no wonder you’re so despondent 😐

No. I disagree with the very concept of them.

Could you expand on what you think their concept is, so we know what you’re disagreeing about.

Summers gives three idea – here are the bullets. For details see FT:

What then is the right response to rising inequality?

First, government must be careful that it does not facilitate increases in inequality by rewarding the wealthy with special concessions.

Second, there is scope for pro-fairness, pro-growth tax reform.

Third, the public sector must insure that there is greater equity in areas of the most fundamental importance.

At the same time, in many parts of the country a gap has opened between the quality of the private school education offered to the children of the rich and the public school educations enjoyed by everyone else. Most alarming is the near doubling over the last generation in the gap between the life expectancy of the affluent and the ordinary.Neither the politics of polarisation nor those of noblesse oblige will serve to protect the interests of the middle class in the post-industrial economy. We will have to find ways to do better.

He does address the over-confidence in trickle down in original post

I like Bob Crow.

Mainly because he really pisses off the up their own arse can’t see further than the end of their own noses selfish blinkered idiots who seem to think transportation systems would be better off without properly trained and qualified people to do the jobs…

Could you expand on what you think their concept is, so we know what you’re disagreeing about.

HTH

AndyP

No. I disagree with the very concept of them. (unions)

How bizarre, this needs exploring further. What part of the ‘concept’ of unions do you disagree with? Is it the ability of workers to collectively strive to maintain or improve the conditions of their employment? Or is it that you think employees should have no say in their conditions of employment, and trust that employers have their employee’s best interests at heart?

Edit, (very) beaten to it… AndyP, that link is to a wikipedia description of Trade Unions and doesn’t prove that you’ve actually understood it.

Bless.

Interesting link AndyP

As you disagree with the concept of unions, what is your alternative? A return to feudalism perhaps?

Unions became obsolete thanks to employment legislation. They won the argument and are no longer needed.

Not sure how this can be likened to a return to feudalism.

Unions became obsolete thanks to employment legislation. They won the argument and are no longer needed.

funny that, because I’ve needed and been glad of my union several times in my own 12 year employment history, both personally and collectively. Employment legislation wouldn’t have covered it, but my union subs did.

They won the argument and are no longer needed.

Beats me why they need to be arguing now then 🙄

So you ask what he disagrees about Unions and he posts a wiki page. So we’re none the wiser.

I won’t be striking I’d work to rule but I will not withdraw the service I provide.

5E + 1

Trade Unions promote collective bargaining which is against the best interests of talented and hard working employees.

AndyP, that link is to a wikipedia description of Trade Unions and doesn’t prove that you’ve actually understood it.
It gives a nice precis to those who aren’t sure about what Trade Unions are about. I don’t have to *prove* anything to you, just as I don’t *have* to work somewhere where I am unhappy. Oh, and Wikipedia has a capital W. Bless.

Or is it that you think employees should have no say in their conditions of employment
Not at all. Don’t know about anyone else, but I got a contract when I started my job, and I could choose whether to sign it or not. Also, if something changes which I don’t like, I can leave and look for a different job. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to work in my office, rather than standing outside with a bunch of cronies, looking miserable and shouting abuse at anyone who wants to fulfill the terms of their contract.

So Andy, according to your link you’re genuinely against the concept of people collectively trying to improve their working conditions?

Seems a bit of an odd thing to be against the concept of.

If you’d said that you were against their support of political parties, or something else more tangible then I could understand where you might be coming from.

Beats me why they need to be arguing now then

Exactly.

Trade Unions promote collective bargaining which is against the best interests of talented and hard working employees.

No, it’s against the interests of those best able to negotiate themselves a higher wage. Not the same thing.

You also seem to be unaware that most public sector jobs are graded, which renders your argument entirely superfluous.

No. I disagree with the very concept of them. (unions)

Lord above. For real? 😯

Are you actually aware of things that trade unions have given you?

I take it you don’t believe in weekends, maximum working hours, equality in the workplace, stuff like that…. 😉

Unions became obsolete thanks to employment legislation. They won the argument and are no longer needed.

In the same way that you don’t need an army once you’ve won a war 😀

I say do you still live in the 80’s?

No, I’m someone who accepts a democratic decision.

Meanwhile, I’ll continue to work in my office, rather than standing outside with a bunch of cronies, looking miserable and shouting abuse at anyone who wants to fulfill the terms of their contract.

Are you aware that a contract is an agreement between two or more parties?

Don’t know about anyone else, but I got a contract when I started my job, and I could choose whether to sign it or not.

And if your employer decides to fundamentally change the terms in that contract? Maybe sack you and get you to reapply for the same job for significantly less money, as a cost cutting measure? Oh yes, you could vote with your feet, but if one employer thinks it’s a good idea, what’s to stop the others following suit? A union can’t promise to stop you being undervalued, but it least it gives you some recompense. Lots of other good reasons, but I fear I’ll be going into banging head against brick wall mode again if I’m not careful…

Also, if something changes which I don’t like, I can leave and look for a different job.

You could. But I’d look at the unemployment figures first.

Meanwhile, I’ll continue to work in my office, rather than standing outside with a bunch of cronies, looking miserable and shouting abuse at anyone who wants to fulfill the terms of their contract.

Heaven forfend that people stand up for what they believe in, eh?

Is AndyP aware that he is free to withdraw his labour and indeed is not beholden to his employer? 😀

And has the right to vote…?

He has the right to vote? Pfft! They’ll be letting women do it before long. And just imagine where that will lead?

What about Darkies, Binners? Surely they don’t deserve to be paid equally with decent hard-working White folk?? 😯

Mainly because he really pisses off the up their own arse can’t see further than the end of their own noses selfish blinkered idiots who seem to think transportation systems would be better off without properly trained and qualified people to do the jobs…

DLR’s doing alright, innit 😉

I assume that this has gone the way I’d expect it to and that there’s no point me wasting my time reading it?

It gives a nice precis to those who aren’t sure about what Trade Unions are about. I don’t have to *prove* anything to you, just as I don’t *have* to work somewhere where I am unhappy. Oh, and Wikipedia has a capital W. Bless.

Resorting to insults already. You are done here then.

DLR’s doing alright, innit

Yeah it is actually. I shall in fact be using it very shortly, and be comforted by the fact that each train carries a Passenger Service Agent who is fully trained in dealing with emergencies, as this will enable to me to have more confidence in the service, and feel safer on my journey. 🙂

“On 10 March 1987, before the railway opened, a test train crashed through station buffer stops at the original high-level terminus Island Gardens station and was left hanging from the end of the elevated track. The accident was caused by unauthorised tests being run before accident-preventing modifications had been installed. The train was being driven manually at the time”

Fodo, can you answer:

Lifer – Member

What data sets do the OBR use then? Can’t find refernce to it in the OBR report.

And what you mean by:

Your up to your no good mischief as usual.

What is this Public Sector strike you talk of, its 2011, not 1974, they have about as much chance of achieving anything except widespread ridicule and annoyance from us the public, than geting what they want.

Probably youll soon be tuped or privatised and there will be a huge influx of new workers to do the jobs the old workers didnt turn up at their workplace to do.

And then i woke from my condem dream

Just have your strike. Its a free country, you are allowed to. It’s hardly going to bring the country to a standstill but will cause some disruption but thats OK, you do have the right to strike.

But then what?

I think the government should be promoting the strike. I mean what’s the pay-bill for a days worth of public sector workers?
They could save a fortune if they could encourage them to take a week off.

they have about as much chance of achieving anything except widespread ridicule and annoyance from us the public,

so public sector employees are not the public now?

so public sector employees are not the public now?

Tax-payer would have been a better term.

Public sector don’t pay tax? I want a rebate, now.(and was feeling left out as everybody else seems to be here)