Overtaking.

What on earth happened here?

A perfectly good thread with top keyboard tips about accents seems to have gone and gotten all driving god again!

😥

Crikey, what about the zebras?

WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE ZEBRAS!

Vehicle performance greatly adds to the other parts you mention for safe, successful overtaking.

What I mean is,

Sure, it’s easier in a faster car (and easier to make a rash mistake due to overconfidence, arguably), but having a slower car shouldn’t be a showstopper, within reason anyway. If you’re trying to overtake whilst driving a tractor, then that’s probably going to be challenging.

Putting that another way, having a fast car can compensate for being crap at overtaking.

When nobbers attack (+ awesum muzic)

WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE ZEBRAS!

Are they crossing?

I learned something that day.

Clearly it wasn’t road positioning, planning, observation or how to execute an effective overtake.

glupton1976 – Member
Is it possible to have multidirectional multispinning zebra?

Cougar, they are.

Oh good, some of the big hitters are being zany.
Always enjoy that.

Zzzz

…ebra.

Lol – gotta admit that was good.

Sorry for being a sour-puss!

As a BMW driver I was both shocked, appalled and dissapointed to be faced with an Audi coming directly towards me on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend the other day. True story.

No respect for my brake pads/tyres

I like the zebras

Firstly I’ve not read every page of this thread as my attention span would just drift so if I’m repeating I apologise.

From what I have seen, I agree with what I call ” my speed ” drivers eg 40mph everywhere, but overtaking is a subject that a lot of people don’t understand.

I’m not going into a who’s right and who’s wrong debate, as I would rather look at it from an educational point of view. Around here, with a learner driver, I would have to drive a 20 mile round journey to get them to 70 mph legally and even then they could only keep it up for 10 seconds before coming to some traffic lights.

National speed limit roads are rare in this area, and especially ones long enough to overtake on. I do try to get them all to have a go at overtaking but it doesn’t always happen. There’s no way I could keep saying to them ” oh well we didn’t get an overtake in so let’s try again next week” and then the opportunity doesn’t arise again so go back week after, week after and so on. No one would stand for that as they would just see it as milking money.

The driving test in this country is simply not good enough. How can someone I’ve trained be expected to drive on roads of NSL for miles and miles when we simply cannot do it round here ? All they want to do is get through the test as quick and cheaply as possible and, at the moment that is achievable as they know they won’t be tested on NSL roads so they won’t pay to go on them.

OK you do get the odd few who will pay for more lessons but in this area it is very rare.

The test needs to be more structured towards modern driving with a minimum amount of hours for each learner before they could even think about test. This would make sure they have experience of all types of roads.

This time last year it was announced that learners would be allowed on motorways with an instructor ” towards the autumn time ” then came a change of transport minister and that all went quiet. How can people be safe when they have never put the theory into practice ?

Returning to the ” my speed drivers ” if you want flashing lights and abuse off one of them, overtake one who’s doing 40 in a NSL in a fully marked up driving school car – not many people actually know that the NSL on a single carriageway for a car is 60 ( most think its 40 ) so they think the driving school,car is speeding……..

I think a bigger problem is that not many people know what a single / dual carriageway actually is.

Interesting. This is the opposite to what I was taught on my response driving courses, which was get out onto the ‘wrong’ side without accelerating, have an even better look around whilst still able to pull back in if necessary, then if its on just boot it past.

Similar idea – getting into a better position where you can see what’s ahead. One method would only be used by people who know what they’re doing in a car – as in your method, and my method for the average joe.

I think a bigger problem is that not many people know what a single / dual carriageway actually is.

Very valid point

“Hearing my children screaming “Daddy” as our car slammed the barrier & rolled after a blow out on the motorway brought home to me the fragility of life. Likewise crawling around the same overturned car trying to unclip the belts on their car seats convinced the thing was about to blow up. Which one do I get out first…”

Ok so I only skim-read the following four pages but no-one even noticed this? I felt sick with empathic terror reading this post!

And I know it’s an MTB forum but surely some of you ride on roads sometimes, or are a least aware of road-using cyclists? Can you be certain there are none around, perhaps obscured by one of the many vehicles obstructing your progress?

On a 50 mile drive on single carriageways you’re unlikely to shave more than 10 minutes off your time trying to get past the queue immediately in front of you, after all, there is probably another one not far ahead of that. I personally think the maths describing traffic flow should be part of the driving test, but then I also think everyone should drive on all types of road on bikes, in cars and in long wheel-based vans – you could never guess how massive the blind spots can be without direct experience. Of course this would make it prohibitively expensive to get driving, so we’d end up with less traffic. Win-win???

If you’re loved one is in need of urgent medical attention and you feel it is safer to overtake than wait then do it. If not then maybe it /is/safe but it’s probably not possible to prescriptively determine that on a forum.

A big thank you to all the trolls, Crikey might be my forum hero now!

If you’re loved one is in need of urgent medical attention and you feel it is safer to overtake than wait then do it.

It’s either safe or it isn’t, there is no weighing up the odds!

Excellent zebra work BTW people 😆

On a 50 mile drive on single carriageways you’re unlikely to shave more than 10 minutes off your time trying to get past the queue immediately in front of you, after all, there is probably another one not far ahead of that. I personally think the maths describing traffic flow should be part of the driving test

And if you lived where I do you’d realise that you could almost halve the time compared to following wagons at 40mph…

Performance of the car has a massive impact on overtaking safely.

Unfortunately, the 17 year old lads think their 1.0L Saxo is the same power/torque as a Scooby – and crucially, this is not taught in driving lessons. Often have to put the brakes on if I see a low power car coming towards me on my side of the road, worried they might not quite make it. Had far too many close shaves come to think of it.

Many of the roads around here you simply run out of road with anything less than [about] 150hp and good amount of torque. The B6245 has 3 places with enough straight road to safely overtake anything travelling more than 20mph. Locals know where these places are, so you’re already looking at the opposing traffic lane when you exit the corners leading into the straights.
You probably have a 0.5-1.0s gap to decide your choice, and probably 8/10 times there’s a car coming (or parked on the side of the road, blocking a safe passage). Fortunately, the overtakee is doing around 25-30mph as they exit the slow corner.

Planning is key, I agree with that (I’ve already dropped to 2nd gear, around 3k revs halfway round the corner..), but no matter how much planning, road reading or positioning you do – your underpowered/low torque N/A engine won’t get you safely past the car in front. Simple.

Performance of the car has a massive impact on overtaking safely.

No it doesn’t. It has a massive impact on overtaking easily.

You probably have a 0.5-1.0s gap to decide your choice,

But by that point, you’ve already closed the large gap you made for yourself in anticipation earlier and are already going much faster than the car in front, ready to either commit or brake, yes? So what difference does your car make?

You exit the same speed as the car in front – 20-25mph perhaps – although you might be close behind them, in anticipation of having the opportunity to overtake.

The difference is the acceleration capability of the car you’re driving.

A 1.3L Ford Fiesta will not be able to acquire the necessary speed to overtake the car in front, before running out of road. No matter how much planning, preparation or observation you do – it’s not physically possible to accelerate, overtake, and re-enter the lane in the road.

On the road in question, you’re coming out of a low speed s-bend.

And if you lived where I do you’d realise that you could almost halve the time compared to following wagons at 40mph…

Performance of the car has a massive impact on overtaking safely.

The difference I noticed passing your way a couple of weeks ago in my ‘new’ 185bhp car was huge compared to the journey in my old 125 bhp car. Loads more opportunities and less need to brake afterwards for the ridiculous number of speed cameras on every decent straight.

Probably saved 20-30 minutes in 70 or 80 miles and saved fuel as I was able to keep a steadier speed rather than the constant brake/accelerate favoured by the 30-50mph brigade, many of whom still brake for every speed camera 😆

You exit the same speed as the car in front – 20-25mph perhaps – although you might be close behind them, in anticipation of having the opportunity to overtake.

If you’re close behind them and doing the same speed, you’re Doing It Wrong.

You can overtake ‘unsafely’ – i.e. you just made it, but the opposing car probably had to slam their brakes on or swerve.

Equally, compared to cars (no matter how quick), motorbikes (in particular, sports bikes) have far more places they can overtake.

By the time you’ve blinked, they’ve dropped a gear, squeezed the throttle, and overtaken you – within 1.0-1.5s.

20mph, 1-2 car lengths, is what I’d consider close. Not literally sitting 1m from their rear bumper.

Cougar – Moderator

No it doesn’t. It has a massive impact on overtaking easily.

Is this just a communication thing? It seems like you’re basically in agreement…

A higher performance car can overtake safely in situations where a lower performance car can’t. So you might say that’s just a choice between overtaking and not overtaking… But I don’t think that’s realistic, people will try and squeeze past regardless.

Also it seems oversimple- the unexpected can happen, frinstance today I overtook a dawdler, with a big big gap. As soon as I committed, he floored it. I had the option of increasing the pace of the move and completed the overtake still with a nice big margin. But if I’d been in my old car, I’d have still made that move (and I don’t believe there would be anything wrong with that) but I’d not have had that option. Therefore, new car is surely safer?

I think either you’re misunderstanding me or this is some quirk of local geography that I’m not familiar with. But generally if you can plan a run-up then vehicle performance is less important, and if you can’t then it’s probably not worth your while overtaking in the first place. On unfamiliar roads it’s trickier, but that doesn’t seem to be what you’re talking about.

Bikes are a whole different argument.

A faster car provides you with more overtaking opportunities than a slow car on the same stretch of road, regardless of the planning.

No point in preparing to overtake if your car can’t physically do it….

So, in regards to your original statement

One thing others have said that I’d contest: overtaking has very little to do with vehicle performance. It’s about forward planning, observation, reading the road, gearing, and road positioning. If you’re waiting until the point where you can overtake to start thinking about passing (and I’m not saying you are, I said “if”), then it’s too late.

Performance of the car has lots to do with safe overtaking.

A higher performance car can overtake safely in situations where a lower performance car can’t.

Like I said, it’s easier. It’s not necessarily safer.

As soon as I committed, he floored it. I had the option of increasing the pace of the move and completed the overtake still with a nice big margin. But if I’d been in my old car, I’d have still made that move (and I don’t believe there would be anything wrong with that) but I’d not have had that option. Therefore, new car is surely safer?

You could’ve aborted the manoeuvre in either car and been safer in both cases than trying to outrun a nob.

Like I said, it’s easier. It’s not necessarily safer.

You don’t consider being able to pull out, overtake, and then re-enter your lane in less time (due to faster car) safer??

Depends whether it’s a lazy decision or not. I’ve seen plenty of fast cars that can’t overtake for shit.

Or rather, the cars can, that’s not the problem.

Cougar – Moderator

You could’ve aborted the manoeuvre in either car and been safer in both cases than trying to outrun a nob.

I very much disagree tbh- aborting’s a much slower operation, and when you know you’re dealing with a knob you know there’s a risk he’ll interfere with that too. Not to mention that it leaves you behind a knob. In this case I was aware there was nothing at all behind but that could also be a consideration (and another decision to make)

Instead, a quick cloud of black smoke and the situation is resolved, and the knob is given less opportunities to be a knob.

Having said that- if I’d chosen to abort, the higher performance car will be better at that too.

If you’re trying to overtake someone who’s decided to try and race you mid-overtake, how is letting him get away and dropping back a bad idea? Locking your brain into a single course of action is dangerous, you need to adapt.

Only overtake when someone is doing below the speed limit or I have a tit a pubes length away from my reg plate. Most nsl roads in this area for example the A666 have a 50 mph speed limit. That’s 2nd gear at low to mid revs on my bike. (Suzuki Gsr 600) overtakes are effortless although it’s far to easy to be doing triple figure mph speeds. I stick to 30 and 40 limits and don’t overtake at all unless you get some knob doing 15 mph on a 30 when it’s clear.

What driving gloves do you recommend for the casual overtake?

Sorry to drop in again, but this is tragic middle aged point scoring about an activity that some think is desperately important and the rest of us just do as part of getting from A to B.

It goes a long way to explain why there needs to be a whole sea change in attitude before roads are shared with others in a safe way.

Even your ‘I’ll be stuck behind someone for ages, and I need to make progress’ types really need to reassess their own attitudes; your car is not the ultimate expression of freedom, it’s a box for moving people, sharing the same space as lots of other boxes for moving people.

Meep Meep.

it’s a box for moving people, sharing the same space as lots of other boxes for moving people.

So presumably, as that space is limited, you’ll be wanting to use it efficiently, rather than doddering around and flashing lights etc when someone has the temerity to make progress share the space ❓

I have looked through the whole 14 pages of this thread and I’m still with the OP

Overtaking is not dangerous if done correctly

If the road is 60mph, then do 60mph, not 35 or 40

And if you are going to choose your own speed limit, then leave gaps for others to overtake

far too much selfishness and self righteousness

My favoured overtaking technique is to check the road ahead is clear of traffic check my mirrors , signal left ease off the throttle and tuck over to the left. Then the brain surgeon rushing to an emergency opp / faster driver can get on with their urgent progress and out of my rear view .

Anyone who speeds is a dick but I have no issues with safe overtaking or indeed being overtaken. I would rather the dicks crashed infront of me than ran into the back of me.