Overtaking.

So would I. However I would not queue jump from 10 back, which is what I see a lot of. You just don’t know the intentions of the people you are cutting infront of.

I still think it’s a queue. You can queue jump in the supermarket if someone lets you. They can’t explicitly let you in a car queue, but you can read their road position. However you need to give them a GOOD chance to make a move.

you shouldn’t overtake somebody who’s clearly going to try and overtake (as opposed to sticking their car out occasionally but never showing any sign of doing anything more)

This comes down to what you think is an acceptable amount of road in which to overtake.

One incident I can remember – long straight, one car coming the other way, I’m a decent stopping distance back. There’s someone in a quick car behind me. Once the car is alongside I signal, and accelerate whilst pulling out. The car behind has accelerated earlier, swings out immediately and by the time I start to move out is alongside me

You appear to be bending the rules of physics. How can the car behind you pull out before you do if you pull out as soon as the other car is past?

I STARTED to move as soon as the other car was level, but due to lots of power he pulled well out and was alongside by the time I had a wheel over the line. His closing speed was quite high.

One incident I can remember – long straight, one car coming the other way, I’m a decent stopping distance back. There’s someone in a quick car behind me. Once the car is alongside I signal, and accelerate whilst pulling out. The car behind has accelerated earlier, swings out immediately and by the time I start to move out is alongside me. He’s deliberately forcing me to wait.

Very reckless.

So you hesitated pulling out. You had to, otherwise how else can the car behind be alongside, given that he too had to wait for the oncoming car to pass & he has closed the gap between you & is already alongside.

Had this car watched you not take a previous opportunity to pass? Now, when I say opportunity, what I mean is, a space he could have passed in, as opposed to one that you could. If so, then perhaps that driver perceived that you weren’t going to pass this time?
Anticipation & preparation. If you can see the opportunity approaching, then it is possible to start accelerating, reducing your “decent stopping distance gap ahead”, in the knowledge that you are going to pull out around the vehicle ahead well before you get too close. A safer way to overtake if you are short of oomph.

I STARTED to move as soon as the other car was level, but due to lots of power he pulled well out and was alongside by the time I had a wheel over the line.

Your story appears to be changing…

I’m also still not sure why you didn’t take the opportunity to start accelerating at the same point as the car behind you, given you should have been able to see the opportunity earlier than them.

So you hesitated pulling out.

It was clear that I was going to move. I was signalling for a start.

Why are you defending this guy?

Some people seem to think that 1/10 of a second on a 200m straight is enough time to decide I’m a granny though.

But certain cars give an impression. If its something like a small Kia (insert any Asian car company name) hatch I’ll make the assumption that they won’t even try to overtake.

This morning I overtook a wagon with a queue of cars behind it. Based on where I caught them (and the fact the wagon would have been doing 45ish) one or two must have been either following for a fair few miles and/or going slow. As we came onto the straight I could see the road was clear so indicated and pulled out.

At the same time a flashed my headlamps, so they all knew what I was doing, or at least it would catch their attention. Because I knew that by the time I passed the lead car I’d be going twice their speed, and didn’t want them to just pull out.

Molgrips – I guess I’m the kinda of driver you hate 🙂

Just noticed something else. Even though you can see the opportunity to pass, you did not indicate until the oncoming vehicle was alongside. You indicate to signal intention to manoeuvre, not as you commence the move. Had you indicated sooner the car behind would have been aware of your intentions.

Why are you defending this guy?

Please point out to us where we’re doing that?

I’m in agreement with Molgrips here. My personal hate is people overtaking me on a slip-road to join main carriageway, across double lines.

Which is just the same as safely overtaking a line of cars in stages 🙄

Why are you defending this guy?

I don’t think any one is defending the guy (I believe the word idiot has already been used). I read it that people are offering advice as to how the overtake could have been completed without the need for a high performance car.

At the same time a flashed my headlamps…

Oh my. This can be taken the wrong way by someone who was considering the overtake and watching you in their mirrors. Lucky they didn’t assume you were letting them out!

Some drivers *assume* you’re going to attempt an overtake – in the same way people *assume* that ‘Granny cars’ will never attempt to overtake the tractor in front of them….

I’ve certainly noticed this, since buying a TT…

people are offering advice as to how the overtake could have been completed without the need for a high performance car.

The overtake would have been completed easily without issue by both of us had he not tried to force his way through. It was very obvious that was going to go. With respect, I believe I did everything right in that particular instance.

Based on where I caught them (and the fact the wagon would have been doing 45ish) one or two must have been either following for a fair few miles and/or going slow.

How?

At the same time a flashed my headlamps, so they all knew what I was doing, or at least it would catch their attention. Because I knew that by the time I passed the lead car I’d be going twice their speed, and didn’t want them to just pull out

esp. as this would mean you’d be doing 90.

With respect, I believe I did everything right in that particular instance.

Fair enough.

Have a read – £139 could make a huge difference. It did with me.

I believe I did everything right in that particular instance.

I’m not even suggesting you didn’t – I wasn’t there, and your side of the story does suggest the other driver was an idiot – just that you could have done things differently which might have meant you’d have pulled out before the other car was alongside you. It was certainly possible for you to have pulled out before the other car was alongside – to claim otherwise really is bending physics.

molgrips – Member

So you hesitated pulling out.
It was clear that I was going to move. I was signalling for a start.

Why are you defending this guy?

Well, in Grips defense, if Grips was indicating his intention before either car could move out. Then its a simple case of the other driver ignoring Grips and putting himself first.
But, the road is full, verge to verge with folk like that. Its the way of the world, on the road. I’m sure worse happens on roads elsewhere, Shit happens.

It’s a dog eat dog world out there, and the ‘snooze you lose’ principle works here.
Thats a very dodgy philosophy to subscribe to when lives could be at risk.

But Molgrips stated he indicated when the oncoming vehicle was alongside. As I’ve said, indicate to signal your intention to move, not as you move.

The car behind may have been a little hasty, but if it was anticipating an overtake manoeuvre, it is likely that molgrips last minute indication & movement came as something of a shock. Without witnessing the actual event, I’d call it 50/50.

But Molgrips stated he indicated when the oncoming vehicle was alongside. As I’ve said, indicate to signal your intention to move, not as you move.

(I can’t believe I’m defending molgrips here, but in this instance I don’t see what he did wrong…)

He presumably didn’t move whilst the oncoming vehicle was alongside, so he did indicate first – and at that point the car behind hadn’t pulled out so should have been able to clearly see the indicator. I’d suggest it’s a really bad idea to indicate before the oncoming driver is alongside as the oncoming driver wouldn’t be sure of your intentions – I certainly would indicate earlier.

Ohh! This argument again!!! It’s always a good one.

Multi car overtakes? Piece of piss. Bladder past the moveable roadblock, job done, thank you and good night.

Far easier on 2 wheels of course and a common occurrence for any motorcyclist. It’s very rare anyone objects, and I don’t think I can ever remember anyone I was passing having a problem with it…… Only the odd one coming the other way. It matters not either way. 🙂

STB.

I won’t labour the point, its not our place to judge and since the event is past, whats the point.

But here’s how I see things. Yeah, I need to get from A to B, sometimes in a timely fashion. But never, do I ever, want to put another person’s life at risk, for being in a hurry.
I’ve driven a lot of miles over many years, I’ve seen a lot of stuff on the road.
So, now, when I get in the car, its my responsibility, as the driver of a car, to protect and preserve those who travel with me AND those who travel about me.

As before, does anyone here ever want the life of another person to be put at risk, possibly ended, through their actions behind the wheel ?
I’d hope not, which is why statements such as:

It’s a dog eat dog world out there, and the ‘snooze you lose’ principle works here.
Are not only worrying, but frankly abhorrent, to me.

As before, does anyone here ever want the life of another person to be put at risk, possibly ended, through their actions behind the wheel ?
I’d hope not, which is why statements such as:

Of course they don’t. Still possible to overtake 10 cars at a time though. I’ll probably do it on my way home tonight. 🙂

PP.

I see high performance motorcycles as a slightly different beast. They are much quicker to move. Personally, I give them respect and space to get by, the sooner the better, ime. However, I’ve seen those motorcycles in the hands of loons, who again, risk the safety of others. And this is my point.
It seems to me that too few people really stop to consider how they’d feel if they became responsible for ending another person’s life.

Oh, and do me a favour. Ride with your headlamp on, if you must, but keep it to dipped. Please don’t ride about with your headlamp switched to main beam. Its illegal, dangerous and annoying.
🙂

So , The highway code says flash your headlights to make others aware of your presence. Very important if you are barreling up the outside of 3 – 4 cars + bus at 30 mph more than they are. So you have a choice , dont flash in case the other ditherers see it as an invitation to pull out and hope they have done mirror + shoulder check before swinging out without indidcating.
I dont flash , I hold my main beam on for 2 secs or so . A police T5 did this to me coming up to a roundabout near Crawley once. I was doing around 80 , he was doing 100+ . I wasnt expecting anything to up my chuff that quickly , it was late at night as well so not alot of traffic on the road.
I slowed and allowed him a better line through the roundabout and he was off into teh distance with a lovely whiff of hot exhaust gasses. Very safe manoevere at high speed on a public highway , saw him from 200m back.

Moly.-

Everyones got to be somewhere
Some people are late
Some people will take more risks
Some dont even understand the risks
Some will have had training
Some will think they are a better driver than they are
Some will have a faster car than you
Some are empowered by overtaking
Some may know the road very well indeed
Someone else might be paying for the fuel
Some people are just plain rude

Thats life , just roll with it . Not worth getting upset about is it really.

Solo – thanks for apportioning other people’s statements to me by putting my name at the top of your post. For what it is worth, go back far enough & you’ll see comments from me suggesting why hurry & why get worked up about people overtaking.
At no point have I indicated that it is in any way acceptable to risk anyone’s life & we’ve been round in circles regarding what constitutes safely overtaking.
I will add one for the motorbikers though – when taking right handers, if you’re riding on / just inside the white line & leaning over, it means your head is on the wrong side of the road. Had a few near misses (seems at it’s worst in the Dales) & just want to point out that bike helmet vs car windscreen / pillar is not going to be pretty.

Far easier on 2 wheels of course

I don’t really mind when motorbikes do it, for the most part.

The problem generally I have on the road is that I wish I had huge neon signs that I coud light up in the rear window that said:

“I’m not pushing in, I’m just enjoying myself. Don’t take it personally” or,
“I know I won’t get there any quicker but I’m just enjoying driving. Don’t take it personally” or,
“I’m not cutting in, I’m merging in turn. Don’t take it personally” or,
“I know I overtook the three of you but your lack of apparent anticipation and body language led me to believe you’re going to stay where you are. DON’T TAKE IT PERSONALLY”

Molgrips, it’s not a queue. It’s not a difficult point to take on board, but if you managed it, you’d be less angry and a safer driver. The reason it’s not a queue is, not everyone wants to overtake. If they don’t want to overtake, what are they queuing for? I’ve followed a row of 4 cars at around 35mph. No one wanted to overtake as demonstrated by them not overtaking. Should I just knock them all off in one go when safe to do so? Or sit behind queuing like you, “waiting my turn”, on the off chance that one of them developed some judgement?

There is no queue, only a flow. And there’s a code that tells you your responsibilities. It’s that simple.

Solo – Member
molgrips – Member

So you hesitated pulling out.
It was clear that I was going to move. I was signalling for a start.

Why are you defending this guy?

Well, in Grips defense, if Grips was indicating his intention before either car could move out. Then its a simple case of the other driver ignoring Grips and putting himself first.
But, the road is full, verge to verge with folk like that. Its the way of the world, on the road. I’m sure worse happens on roads elsewhere, Shit happens.

It’s a dog eat dog world out there, and the ‘snooze you lose’ principle works here.
Thats a very dodgy philosophy to subscribe to when lives could be at risk.

Solo – Please don’t quote part of my post to suggest I’m a lunatic. You missed this bit out:

I’m not encouraging bad behaviour or lack of care/respect for others, that causes accidents and nobody has the right to put others at risk.

Cheers

The reason it’s not a queue is, not everyone wants to overtake

However plenty of people in the line of cars DO want to overtake. Some arrived before others. Therefore it is a queue. The only issue is that some people in that queue aren’t going to overtake. Which is an issue that needs to be worked around.

Or sit behind queuing like you, “waiting my turn”, on the off chance that one of them developed some judgement?

You sit behind them until you have seen that they aren’t going to overtake, then you can overtake. The problem is that many drivers see a queue, think “sod this” and start fighting their way forward regardless, and passing people who’ve been waiting for their turn.

I’ve been in many many queues and a few people go off the front each time there’s a strait, so we are all waiting to go. Then someone comes up behind me and immediately starts jumping the queue without having waited to see if the rest of us are preparing to go. In long queues, people start jumping even when they can’t see the front of it.

I would go so far as to say that is the norm with long queues.

Yes, in the situation you describe fourbanger, you should make your way forwards. However many many times I see people pushing forwards regardless of what anyone else is doing. They do it because they are impatient and selfish. I do not like people being impatient and selfish.

Ok, it’s still not a queue.

Its not a queue, its a line of cars all travelling on the same road.

Yes it is.

If I get there first, I deserve first shout at passing. If I defer, then you may go through. Just like a supermarket.

A queue.

You’re not describing queuing at the till, you’re describing queuing down the aisle, which no-one does.
Why should anyone wait for you in case you might overtake?

Get over yourself.

If I have to wait for someone else to overtake before I do, then I wait.

It’s a much healthier mindset.
🙂

No , It isnt . But sometimes it is.
Very slow moving vehicle .Tractor , Steam engine, cyclist, horse = Queue. Everyone wants to overtake . No one in the line of cars wants to be doing 15mph.

Car towing caravan on an A road ,single carriage way. There might a line of 15 cars behind the caravan. Some of whom (maybe the majority) , who are happy to pootle at 47mph do not want to and have no intention of overtaking that caravan = Not a queue.

Impossible to tell from behind my long bulging bonnet as I charge up from behind which of the 15 cars is happy pootling, or would like to overtake but isnt able to , for whatever reason.

What this thread needs is a dancing zebra. Don’t you think?

You’re not describing queuing at the till, you’re describing queuing down the aisle

No, I’m not. The till is the obstruction.

I’m not complaining about being overtaken myself on the open road – that would be like moving around in the aisle.

It’s still a queue and that’s the end of it.

Gotta say im never in so much of a hurry that i have to overtake, and i like driving fast, but theres a time and a place for that. Having seen some of the mess made in Russia where overtaking seems mandatory whether safe to do so or not and its gone wrong, well like i say im never in that-much of a rush

Jesustittyfuckingchrist. Listen Victor Meldrew, you’re wrong. End of. Get some more training if you’re having trouble with indicating your intent to overtake. Plenty of ways it can be done before you even get to mirror, signal, manoeuvre.