Osbourne says no to currency union.

I am not trying to draw an inequality comparison between Aberdeen and London.

No my post wasn’t aimed at you – I took the quote from the article, not your post.

I was just pointing out that the article doesn’t make a useful point. London has a great deal of people living in it, a relatively small number are multibillionaires. I would expect most areas of the UK to have a higher rate of multibillionaires per head than London. So saying that Aberdeen does doesn’t count for much imho.

Thinking about it, Aberdeenshire sees more snowfall than London, so the higher rate of Range Rover purchases is also justifiable. Nevermind, maybe next time.

we’ll be looking at a very large minority who’ve essentially rejected the status quo

…but don’t actually want full independence. Not even yS want it (the BOD is not even a manifesto let alone a well argued case for full independence) and the wishes of the majority’s are pretty obvious. Voting yes does not give the majority the outcome they wish. Why else would yS be proposing what they are proposing (more devolved power).

But don’t fear, politicians live in the world of tactics not strategy and focus groups not principles. The underwhelming sentiment is clear. Any politician half his salt will bend over backwards to deliver it. They crave power above all else. After NO, they will devolve more power to the regions. It’s a vote winner pure and simple.

In the case of this particular one, it’s self selecting ex-pats who are interested enough to read a Scottish newspaper online AND submit a poll. I don’t think it’s a big surprise that they’re the sort of people who like the idea of independence for all its theoretical advantages when the practicalities don’t affect them. I wouldn’t expect them to be a particularly typical selection. In a more general sense, I imagine that Yes voters are probably more likely to feel stronger.

In any case, online polls are in general worth about as much as they cost to run.

. After NO, they will devolve more power to the regions. It’s a vote winner pure and simple.

That’s what the tories said in 79 and 4 successive tory govts failed to deliver
The only way to get more powers for Scotland is to vote Yes

duckman – Member

64% of expats are for indy and you never met one sbob?

Nope, so I trust that poll as far as I could throw Alex Salmond.
See aracer’s reply for details, but I have never seen one of my customers reading a Scottish paper, we tend to read British newspapers around here. 🙂

gordimhor – Member

That’s what the tories said in 79 and 4 successive tory govts failed to deliver
The only way to get more powers for Scotland is to vote Yes

Aren’t you already in place to be granted more powers in the following years, even if you remain in the union?
Correct me if I’m wrong…

Like they did last time after the 1978 vote THM? No chance,Scotland will be squeezed,end of. The better together campaign hasn’t exactly endeared the ruling Tory party to Scotland,so they have nothing at all to lose.You may have not noticed,but they wrote us off when that nice lady was in charge. Giving Scotland more devolved power will start to erode the fear of the unknown that has been BT’s greatest tool.

I’m sure David Cameron would be most pleased if he could see the opinions of those on here who appear to believe that the Tories will win the next general election and presumably all following general elections.

Or is this part of project fear ?

You are wrong sbob in that the powers to be devolved to Scotland in 2016 were decided by Westminster long before the referendum vote . I therefore discounted them as the agreement was in place long ago. Further when even the House of lords can reclaim powers from holyrood without so much as a “by your leave” devolved administrations will never be secure.
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I don’t believe that the unionists or the Westminster establishment (whether it’s red blue or yellow) have changed since 79 so if people want more powers for Scotland they should vote Yes

gordimhor – Member

You are wrong sbob in that the powers to be devolved to Scotland in 2016

No, that was exactly what I was talking about.

so they have nothing at all to lose.

Whereas under independence they obviously have so much more to lose?????

You may have not noticed,

True, I spent my life with eyes shut and ears closed. So much easier….

Maybe you are having trouble making sense of thms post 🙂 which refers to promises to devolve powers after a no vote as opposed to agreeing to devolve certain powers before any vote which is the case with those powers which are to be devolved in 2016

I’m confused. If more powers are devolved in 2016, then that will be after a no vote. Surely that means that is Scotland votes no the result will be that more powers will be devolved? Are we arguing semantics here?

A few more powers are being devolved, in an agreement made a couple of years ago – nowhere near Devo Max.

…but don’t actually want full independence. Not even yS want it (the BOD is not even a manifesto let alone a well argued case for full independence) and the wishes of the majority’s are pretty obvious. Voting yes does not give the majority the outcome they wish. Why else would yS be proposing what they are proposing (more devolved power).

I’ve had several goes at parsing that. I think you’re making the favourite argument of unionists, that “Yes doesn’t want enough independence because you want a currency union / EU membership / treaties / to breathe the same air as everyone else”.

Which is rubbish. We want independence. Every independent country has treaties, unions and obligations – the important, vital fact is that an independent country can decide those for itself.

Any powers granted by Westminster can be taken back at any time.

Which is rubbish. We want independence. Every independent country has treaties, unions and obligations – the important, vital fact is that an independent country can decide those for itself.

Isn’t control over fiscal policy one of the main things Scotland doesn’t have now which it wants to gain through independence? And how would it have that in a currency union with a much bigger economy?

You can dismiss it as rubbish if you like but that’s just burying your head in the sand.

We want independence.

Not according to the polls.

Every independent country has treaties, unions and obligations – the important, vital fact is that an independent country can decide those for itself.

So Scotland can choose to be an independent country within the UK ? If Scotland votes No in September you will in fact recognise Scotland’s independence ? Because it will have ‘decided for itself’. In other words Scotland is independent right now. So what exactly are we arguing about ?

This is probably the most rational post I’ve seen from a Yes supporter:

I think as we approach the 100th page everyone should just agree to disagree, or atleast agree that there are benefits of independence and there are benefits of union. Ultimately the choice is down to personal instinct.

teamhurtmore – Member
True, I spent my life with eyes shut and ears closed. So much easier….

Well,it took 98 pages,but well done; confession is good for the soul,they say.

Ernie,I think the Tories will win the next election,such is the car crash that is the current Labour party,but that is for another thread.

Well that’s a fair analysis considering how popular the Tories are, how practically all the opinion polls since the last general election have given Labour a clear lead, how the Tories couldn’t win a general election even after 13 years of New Labour governments, illegal wars, and a compliant Tory press which blamed the entire global recession on Labour. Yes the Tories and their hugely popular coalition partners are obviously going to walk the next general election and the “car crash” party which is Labour stands no chance.

Quick……tell everyone to vote for independence.

Well,it took 98 pages,but well done; confession is good for the soul,they say.

Good for the soul, and the only way to engage with the yS campaign. You have to become like them to understand them. It’s brilliant being able to ignore what is going on in Europe and to imagine a world with no cons. I can see the attraction, it’s like a happy pill.

Yup,all detailed in those wonderful SA documents you post,makes you want to break into a rousing chorus of Rule Britannia..err without the rules the waves bit obviously.
Ah,I see Ernie,we are voting for Indy to avoid a Tory government? 🙄

I know you’re being sarcastic – but yes, it’s wonderful to be optimistic about something for a change!

Which is perhaps why so many people are getting involved – if this referendum does nothing else, it’s getting millions of people to show an interest in politics that they never had before because they thought it was pointless.

Ben, I will agree with you there and that is very healthy. Sadly this is not happening S of the wall despite the obvious consequences of the vote either way. I am all for challenging the current political framework/context which is far from healthy. But I do not think that the AS/Nigel Farage proposals are even close to a sensible solution. Two wrongs do not make a right!

Ooh, you’re going with the “Alex Salmond is just like Nigel Farrage” thing? That’s been a very popular line recently, comparing the SNP to UKIP – was there a memo?

No, I opened ears and eyes for just a moment. Probably wish I hadn’t. Both spout populist gobbledygook in a loud and forceful manner (sad attempt to be alpha males) while pretending to be men of the people. The fact that both get away with it, is just a sad reflection on the current political landscape. The fact that other politicians struggle to compete with the loud, populist BS is also interesting in its own right.

Joking apart, the materials produced by both sided (BoD excepted) are actually full of very interesting analysis. Strip away the BS and the nature of the issues and the challenges are genuinely fascinating.

The SNP are the majority government of Scotland, while UKIP have how many MPs? The SNP are centre-left, very happy to have more immigration, while UKIP are, well, not. Apart from having charismatic leaders, there really aren’t any similarities at all.

And, again, Yes isn’t about just Alex a Salmond or the SNP. There’s the SSP, the Greens, the Yes Labour group, non-politicians like Radical Independence, National Collective, Common Weal, Business for Scotland, etc etc.

Milliband is not electable. Tories may not be popular but come on milliband as pm? 😆

And, again, Yes isn’t about just Alex a Salmond or the SNP. There’s the SSP, the Greens, the Yes Labour group, non-politicians like Radical Independence, National Collective, Common Weal, Business for Scotland

That is quite a group – add in WoS and it’s a full house.

teamhurtmore – Member
That is quite a group – add in WoS and it’s a full house

and here we have thm’s bias laid bare for all to see. 😆 not that it was ever in doubt mind! But its pretty obvious why you are against an IS beyond just keeping the union together.

duckman – Member
Ah,I see Ernie,we are voting for Indy to avoid a Tory government?

Much of the rhetoric suggests that for sure. As many have said, we are still awaiting a rationale case for full independence – we hate Tory policies (even if true) is not the same thing.

Play yS bingo and hope you have “bedroom tax” on your card. Ticks all the boxes – repeated constantly, it’s Tory, and the BS bit, it’s not a tax. “House”!

teamhurtmore – Member
and here we have thm’s bias laid bare for all to see. not that it was ever in doubt mind!

Unbiased with the inputs (facts), biased on the conclusion. Never denied that my conclusion (bias) is that the union is better for both Scotland and the rUK. It’s great that yS agree too.

Still with such a powerful coalition there, we can rest assured that some honest reasons for a new independent states will arrive before the vote (unlike Godot and duck’s answers).

Re UKIP and the SNP. It’s not the substance (or obvious lack of it) it’s the style and methods employed and the fact that other politicians are struggling to deal with it. Joe Public enjoys popping happy pills. Cold turkey is less fun though.

UKIP is nothing like the SNP

For a start, UKIP want independence from the EU institutions, so that they don’t have their laws, regulations, immigration, financial, trade, manufacturing, agriculture and fishing policies all set by an undemocratic elite in a different country

whereas the SNP want independence from an undemocratic elite in a different country (England) so that they can forge closer ties with the EU and its institutions, and in the process are willing to surrender their laws, regulations, immigration, financial, trade, manufacturing, agriculture and fishing policies to an undemocratic elite in a different country

Eh? 😕

We really should change the thread title, the currency union topic is so last month.

This week’s scare story is defence – we have Lord Robertson, the First Sea Lord, and the Defence Secretary (not yet a Lord) all weighing in. Amazing how a washed-up Scottish Labour politician, an English Tory politician, and a supposedly non-political military man all managed to co-ordinate their messages.

Still, no pre-negotiation, right?

I think as we approach the 100th page everyone should just agree to disagree, or atleast agree that there are benefits of independence and there are benefits of union. Ultimately the choice is down to personal instinct.

It’s complete pish – unless your voting is driven by instinct.

bencooper – Member

This week’s scare story

They are only scarey stories because Yes are being so tight lipped about how they would actually achieve anything.

teamhurtmore – Member
teamhurtmore – Member
and here we have thm’s bias laid bare for all to see. not that it was ever in doubt mind!
Unbiased with the inputs (facts), biased on the conclusion. Never denied that my conclusion (bias) is that the union is better for both Scotland and the rUK. It’s great that yS agree too.

Still with such a powerful coalition there, we can rest assured that some honest reasons for a new independent states will arrive before the vote (unlike Godot and duck’s answers).

Re UKIP and the SNP. It’s not the substance (or obvious lack of it) it’s the style and methods employed and the fact that other politicians are struggling to deal with it. Joe Public enjoys popping happy pills. Cold turkey is less fun though.I was meaning it showed up your right wing bias quite clearly! 😆

seosamh77 – Member

😆

That nervous laugh is getting painfully obvious old boy. 😉

konabunny – Member

It’s complete pish – unless your voting is driven by instinct.99% of people do, you can only know so many “facts”.