sbob – Member
That nervous laugh is getting painfully obvious old boy.

I shall switch!

I was meaning it showed up your right wing bias quite clearly!

Libertarian, not RW please! Hence, generally supportive of devolved power and local representation. Difference is, I prefer to see it done properly and honestly.

Note that people of different political persuasions are united in rejecting yS BS in here and in the real world.

teamhurtmore – Member
I was meaning it showed up your right wing bias quite clearly!
Libertarian, not RW please! Hence, generally supportive of devolved power and local representation. Difference is, I prefer to see it done properly and honestly.

Note that people of different political persuasions are united in rejecting yS BS in here and in the real world.Interestingly I think it is actually an “almost” clear split up here in scotland. It tends to be more to the left in favour of independence, not entirely obviously as the SNP is a mix of left and right, but it’s possibly the biggest coalition of leftists that scotland has seen in a long time.

Is Johann Lamont and (her party) merely an outlier?

Thm it isn’t really her party, decisions are made in London and then passed on to Johann Lamont. Labour is in a complete shambles about its “devo max” proposal. Lots of labour voters support Yes
Labour devo max reviewed
labourforindy

teamhurtmore – Member
Is Johann Lamont and (her party) merely an outlier?

What’s an outlier?

Lamont is clearly just a puppet though, that much is blatantly obvious.

we are still awaiting a rationale case for full independence

Heys its gone all TJ 😕
Not sure how many more pages of this or documents you want…perhaps its just your bias that makes you think there is nothing rationale there 💡

just out of interest why is it irrational to want a government you vote for /not want a govt you dont vote for…its seems a fairly universal aspiration for democracy…you know what the word means I assume

Why is this argument “weak”?
I awaits some formidable “rationale” as to why the will of the people should be ignored It’s not like you will stick your head in the sand and pretend the question has not been asked as you have no answer. Nor will you just continue to repeat the lie that its irrational…your not emotive like AS on this are you…oh the irony.

Unbiased with the inputs (facts), biased on the conclusion.

Yes I am biased but the facts still support me …who does not think this ?

Libertarian, not RW please!

Farage says that as well iirc
You are probably alone in thinking you are not right wing

konabunny – Member
It’s complete pish – unless your voting is driven by instinct.

Which side are you attacking here ? Applies to both as does much of this guff passing as debate.
Still no idea why everyone is struggling to see they are largely making OTT claims for their positions and most have lost all sense of perspective.

just out of interest why is it irrational to want a government you vote for /not want a govt you dont vote for…its seems a fairly universal aspiration for democracy…you know what the word means I assume

Why is this argument “weak”?

It isn’t irrational or weak.
It is lonely though.

Not sure what you mean by lonely tbh?

Sorry, isolated, as in it is the only decent argument that has been put forward.
That is enough for many it seems, as Ben and Sam have personally stated.

just out of interest why is it irrational to want a government you vote for /not want a govt you don’t vote for…its seems a fairly universal aspiration for democracy

It isn’t – however it is irrational to demand independence from the rUK on the one hand, yet at the same time demand that they retain responsibility for setting your financial policies, underwrite your financial industry, subsidise your renewable energy industry – and all the while campaign strongly for the EU to direct your laws laws, foreign and domestic policies, and NATO to set your defence policy.

Its not independence, its moving into the granny flat!

and all the while campaign strongly for the EU to direct your laws

They can campaign all they like, if they get independence they’ll leave the EU.

ninfan – Member
yet at the same time demand

This is where you argument falls down, you seem to see a lot of demands, they aren’t demands, some are what we’ll be entitled to, some are requests to work together, like a currency union.

If follow a yes vote, rUK doesn’t want to work together, well need to look at different options(which clearly exist).

seosamh77 – Member

some are requests to work together, like a currency union

😆

seosamh77 – Member

If follow a yes vote, rUK doesn’t want to work together, well need to look at different options(which clearly exist).

Ooh, ooh, have you spotted the mythical Plan B? 😯

hahaha

sbob – Member
seosamh77 – Member
If follow a yes vote, rUK doesn’t want to work together, well need to look at different options(which clearly exist).

Ooh, ooh, have you spotted the mythical Plan B? I explained this to youse about 20 pages ago, they are there in the white paper. you may not see merit in them, but they do exist.

they aren’t demands, some are what we’ll be entitled to, some are requests to work together

Like when my daughter jumps up and down saying she won’t have her bath until after I’ve given her pudding, she’s ‘requesting that we work together’ 😆

I also listened to Salmond’s speech the other day, which promised the Earth with no explanation of how he will achieve it.

WRT the speech, is Faslane just a negotiating position, in your opinion?

ninfan – Member
they aren’t demands, some are what we’ll be entitled to, some are requests to work together
Like when my daughter jumps up and down saying she won’t have her bath until after I’ve given her pudding, she’s ‘requesting that we work together’

I genuinely do love this type of disrespect, as that’s all it is, from the no camp.

Does your campaign the world of good! 😆

sbob – Member
I also listened to Salmond’s speech the other day, which promised the Earth with no explanation of how he will achieve it.

WRT the speech, is Faslane just a negotiating position, in your opinion?

Personally I would use it yes(I just don’t want to pay for it, but understand that they exist and are of little threat to anyone), but after his affirmation of it in that speech, no I don’t think it can be for the SNP. His party would revolt against him, never mind the people.

I genuinely do love this type of disrespect, as that’s all it is, from the no camp.

Ah, passive aggressive assumption of the indignant and offended victim role when trapped… You sure you don’t write speeches for the SNP?

My point being, that’s how we view currency union south of the border.

sbob – Member
My point being, that’s how we view currency union south of the border.

That’s entirely up to you. It’s not make or break from me. Far from it. I’d only want to use the pound short term anyhow.

ninfan – Member
I genuinely do love this type of disrespect, as that’s all it is, from the no camp.
Ah, passive aggressive assumption of the indignant and offended victim role when trapped… You sure you don’t write speeches for the SNP?

What’s your points tally at anyhow, you beat your hi score yet?

you beat your hi score yet?

I’m only posting to hit p100.

isolated, as in it is the only decent argument that has been put forward

Well self determination is pretty compelling
Ukraine may be financially more stable , a better international player etc if it sides with Russia . I am sure many of the Benelux states would be better off being german even RUK is better of in the Eu but iots not convincing all

ninfan you seemed to have turned over anew leaf and are now just reverting to type again …the rational you was much better IMHO

I also listened to Salmond’s speech the other day, which promised the Earth with no explanation of how he will achieve it.

DOES ANYONE WANT TO CLAIM HE IS THE ONlY POLITICIAN WHO DOES THIS
Anyone really expect any politician to deliver the aspirational pish they serve to the electorate prior to an election ? I dont care what party they belong to does anyone actually believe it?
To just say this about AS whilst saying the pledge from the rUK is a FACT is just naive.
I dont disagree AS wont deliver on everything he is a politicians its to be expected and the same is true for the No, only on independence do folk take the words of Westminster MP’s as a truth …..so intent in calling AS names that you miss the wood for the trees

Junky, I think its fair to go for a bit of ‘like with like’ – particularly when someone posts something as patently ridiculous as:

some are requests to work together, like a currency union

When Salmond himself said:

If there is no legal basis for Scotland having a share of the public asset of the Bank of England, then there is equally no legal basis for Scotland accepting a share of the public liability of the national debt

Which is about as much a ‘request to work together’ as a Somalian pirate offers 😀

only on independence do folk take the words of Westminster MP’s as a truth

I don’t think thats true really, on here we’ve seen plentiful links to independent legal opinions, international legal precedent, documentary evidence etc. – in my opinion the imbalance between the two sides of the discussion shows fairly clearly in this, particularly in many of the assertions of ‘yeah, but it will all come right in the end’ by one side.

ninfan – Member
Junky, I think its fair to go for a bit of ‘like with like’ – particularly when someone posts something as patently ridiculous as:

some are requests to work together, like a currency union
When Salmond himself said:

If there is no legal basis for Scotland having a share of the public asset of the Bank of England, then there is equally no legal basis for Scotland accepting a share of the public liability of the national debt

Which is about as much a ‘request to work together’ as a Somalian pirate offers you do understand what if means aye? you also understand that agreed and consensual separation of a union isn’t the same as a part of a country declaring independence of a country?

If there is no legal basis for Scotland having a share of the public asset of the Bank of England, then there is equally no legal basis for Scotland accepting a share of the public liability of the national debt

YAWN TBH i am sick of saying the same things
Again he is responding to what they said first but lets call him the baddy. If his negotiation position is terrible then so is rUks [ who wont negotioate but will say what they wont do – is this really more credible?] as well- both legal and both unhelpful

Are you really saying he should just just roll over and go ok fair enough you wont give us what we want/think we desreve but dont worry we will pay whatever you ask of the debt and just take whatever you offer…thanks mr rUK . Is this meant to make us respect him more or make the voters in Scotland more likely to vote for him?
Again whatever side had the no debt card they would be threatening to use it as anything else would be crap negotiating.
Your point is just to say which you like not which is right.

I don’t think thats true really, on here we’ve seen plentiful links to independent legal opinions, international legal precedent, documentary evidence etc. – in my opinion the imbalance between the two sides of the discussion shows fairly clearly in this, particularly in many of the assertions of ‘yeah, but it will all come right in the end’ by one side.i have read stuff that agrees with me and i will claim its the truth and ignore everything else against it. Furthermore when they say something I will reinforce that my Govt funded sources are independent whilst stressing that there’s are biased

FTFY. DO you wish to claim you were neutral till the evidence convinced you or were you pro union before you read up 😉
Noone is changing their minds here

By come all right in the end I assume you mean rUK EU position then …you can of course categorically tell me whether we will be in or out in 5 years.

agreed and consensual separation of a union

If that was to be the case, then surely all UK citizens should have a vote in the referendum?

I assume they mean they [union govt] agreed to a vote hence consensual

Its not like they are arguing we vote on whether to keep the falklands isle or Gibraltar we let the people decide but only if we are certain they will vote to stay 😛

sbob – Member
agreed and consensual separation of a union
If that was to be the case, then surely all UK citizens should have a vote in the referendum?

Not particularly, no.

Junkyard – lazarus

I assume they mean they [union govt]

And there was me thinking this was all about giving power to the people… 🙂

you also understand that agreed and consensual separation of a union isn’t the same as a part of a country declaring independence of a country?

Why? The union was supposed to be hereof and forever – Neither can I see any reason why, for example, Kernow, historically an independent Kingdom, could not call for independence

And there was me thinking this was all about giving power to the people…

😆
yes but not the oppressors 😉

yes but not the oppressors

English or Tory? 😈

ninfan – Member
you also understand that agreed and consensual separation of a union isn’t the same as a part of a country declaring independence of a country?
Why? The union was supposed to be hereof and forever – Neither can I see any reason why, for example, Kernow, historically an independent Kingdom, could not call for independence

The Edinburgh agreement.

Kernow, funnily enough, neither do I. They could call it if they wanted, they’d need to negotiate that with the westminster government.

I would display my own bias were i to answer that one [TORIES}
the english are fine unless they are assesing their football teams chances in a world cup 😉

http://www.referendum.ed.ac.uk/does-scotland-have-the-right-to-secede/

Btw here’s an interesting article supporting assertions that we don’t actually deserve a referendum. Simple fact is that the Edinburgh agreement was signed, so the referendum is legal and binding, which eever way it goes.(which is absolutely crucial to everything to do with it, why the scottish referendum will have no bearing on the legality of catalonian or ventian or basque referenda).