Osbourne says no to currency union.

I’m not sure – people move back and forth over the border all the time, so I don’t see how you can say “we really don’t like each other”.

Unless he means that all British people hate all other British people. Which is perhaps more likely to be true 😉

I think there is an undercurrent of dislike – historically based – on both sides of the border & that separation is the best answer for both sides. I’m tired of being blamed for all Scotland’s ills because I’m English and i want to see us dissolve the Union.

I disagree with muddydwarf. I find English people to be oblivious towards most other nations and I think this winds up the smaller nations around us to a certain extent. The English don’t seem to suffer from the identity crisis that Scots, Irish and the Welsh appear to have.

On the contrary, I think it’s the English who have an identity crisis – no parliament of their own, a flag that’s partly been taken over by unsavoury elements, retreating from Europe into an isolationist stance.

Yup,but point it out and they get offended. Maybe if they spent less time trying to interfere in other countries?

no parliament of their own

C”mon Ben get your story straight. I thought your major gripe is that we have a parliament that only looks after the interests of (SE) England!!!!!

Go on THM,could you please post up some more of your “evidence is there,if we care to look” docs,I am off up our hills ( free to walk on responsibly,you lot should try it) early and could do with some light fiction/a good laugh to forget the early start.

C”mon Ben get your story straight. I thought your major gripe is that we have a parliament that only looks after the interests of (SE) England!!!!!

Yes, and the people of the Rest of England suffer just as much or more than we do in Scotland from the inequality of the Westminster system. My story is completely straight.

Yes right, of course the fiscal transfer data says completely the opposite but since when have Econ facts been reel ram to this debate!?!

Still with voting patterns unchanged and the case for iS debunked, silly stories are all that is left from here.

Yes right, of course the fiscal transfer data says completely the opposite but since when have Econ facts been reel ram to this debate!?!

Er, yeah, um, what?

Public transport spending per head:
London: £2000
North-East: £2

The English regions are incredibly badly served by the Westminster parliament.

Duckman, why waste hard facts on you? Just enjoy your walk, hate to spoil it with some home truths. Like right to roam, you have your own version of mildly amusing fiction – 600 pages if it.

Keep going Ben, you might get there in the end.

Public transport spending per head:
London: £2000
North-East: £2

I think we’ve gone over this ground before on here, but Is that not a figure for public transport infrastructure projects?

Therefore construction of a tram system or similar would show up in the figures, whereas an increase in subsidised bus services, would not…

Now, my experience of the North East, having spent a fair bit of my yout there, and my Mum living 15 miles from Newcastle, I’d happily argue that with a small population spread over large distances in rural areas, and only a couple of population hubs that really don’t suffer horrifically from congestion, that spend is perfectly reasonable, and you can see why the money is being concentrated in the highly populated South East.

Consett doesn’t need a tram, it needs a decent bus service.

However, unfortunately, I think your figures may have been superseded with the announcement of an expected £300m upgrade to the Metro in Tyne and Wear, population 1.1million 😳

Ben there are working trams in Manchester and Sheffield on only £2 per head. It makes you wonder how the SNP wasted all that money in Edinburgh.

manchester and sheffield are not in the North east?

the SNP had a manifesto pledge to scrap the trams but they were outvoted – it was not their fault or their decision

Ben’s figures are incredibly misleading as he did pick the lowest figure in an area with very low population density. But then again when you are a nat you have to be an expert in spinning information because there are no facts to back up independence.

Yes ben did pick the lowest area to highlight his point but at least it was true.

when you are a nat you have to be an expert in spinning information because there are no facts to back up independence.

This is only the teeniest weenist bit weakened by the fact you were wrong …heal thyself.

Ben there are working trams in Manchester and Sheffield on only £2 per head. It makes you wonder how the SNP wasted all that money in Edinburgh

The SNP voted to stop the tram project but as a minority govt were defeated by a coalition of the other parties.
Yet FNF says Ben’s figures are

incredibly misleading

Yes ben did pick the lowest area to highlight his point but at least it was true.

Nope, turns out it wasn’t:

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/transport/Scrutiny%20Unit%20Note%20-%20regional%20transport%20spending%20_2_.pdf

Public spending on transport in London is relatively high, both in terms of total spending, and on a 
per head basis (£774 per head in 2010/11). After London, the two regions with the highest spending 
on transport in 2010/11 were the North West (£337 per head) and the East (£328 per head). The area with the lowest spend per head was the South West (£212 per head).

well he stands corrected then on the exact figure if not the point 😉
FWIW I shall be careful to not take these nasty nats at face value next time

The disparity is mainly in the form of London versus other regions,rather than a north/south divide.  

South west was lowest at just over £200

Spending per head in London (the top light blue line in the graph below) has increased significantly since 2008?09,

I think his point

The English regions are incredibly badly served by the Westminster parliament.

was broadly true – though of course the paper makes it clear most of the disparity from london is due to spending from Local authorities and public corporations
rather than central govt

Why did you not just say this to him rather than me?

I shall give it a score draw

EDIT : FOR YOUR EDIT the east is not the north east to be clear nor is it the south east either tbh i am not sure where them mean with the east.

bencooper – Member

On the contrary, I think it’s the English who have an identity crisis – no parliament of their own, a flag that’s partly been taken over by unsavoury elements, retreating from Europe into an isolationist stance.
Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

duckman – Member

Yup,but point it out and they get offended. Maybe if they spent less time trying to interfere in other countries?
Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

Presumably you don’t think that the Scots “interfere in other countries” duckman but that the English do.

I’ll take that as anti-English rhetoric, something which which have strongly denied being guilty of and yet have once again fallen back on in the Scottish independence debate.

You want this whole independence debate to be English vs Scots, and yet it isn’t, it’s Scots vs Scots.

And if you are defeated in September, as now increasingly looks likely, it will be by the Scots, the majority of Scots, not the English, or the Welsh, or the Northern Irish.

Yes ben did pick the lowest area to highlight his point but at least it was true.

Not so true after all 😉

Actually his point was still true as i have said above but it is not the lowest area. TBH, unlike you, I dont have a problem admitting Ben was wrong or that my statement about his statement was wrong.

Would you like to address your own double wrongness yet or just bluff your way through ?

I still think attacking “nats” when you were wrong on both counts was a bit weak tbh.
Its not like i attacked ninfan or unionists [ loosest sense no offence] when he pointed it out. Facts are facts and not accepting them or bluffing your way through being wrong , whilst being the STW way, paints a poor picture of someone IMHO.

Yup, I got the magnitude wrong – was gong from memory – but the principle stands. There are a lot of very big, very expensive infrastructure projects built in the South-East, but paid for by everyone.

I find English people to be oblivious towards most other nations and I think this winds up the smaller nations around us to a certain extent.

The smaller nations should stop caring what English people think if it winds them up so much.

Yes Ben, you may have noticed that Heathrow airport is bigger than those in Edinburgh, Glasgow or Newcastle – Its commonly referred to as a transport hub, So if you want to take the train from Edinburgh Cardiff or Cornwall to Paris, you go by London, yes it involves expensive infrastructure projects in one place, overcoming legacy issues that developed for myriad reasons, but its unlikely to change in the near future.

The key point of course is that it means that spend on the main ‘hub’ does benefit everyone, look at how many American tourists you get in Edinburgh as an example of the benefits of having an effective and connected system, and how money spent on Infrastructure in London benefits other regions.

I mean, we could put the national transport hub in Devon, but it would be a bit pointless placing it so far from the highest population density wouldn’t it?

I suppose that in an Independent Scotland you’ll be planning to move away from this will you? a full schedule of Direct Flights worldwide, rather than limited schedules and seasonal routes?

What is the tax take per head for different regions (let’s include tax paid by companies for the sake of argument)?

Nope Ernie. It was a dig at the fact that the main no contributors to this thread don’t have a vote,yourself included,and are almost exclusively English. The only people posting anti anything rhetoric on here aren’t Scottish,see Zulu’s description of yes voters as “bellends” yesterday for example(or did you miss that,must have because you would surely have condemned it)
Strange that somebody like you who is quick to post insults based on racial stereotypes is so easily offended,maybe because you dish them out,you see them in every statement? Anyway, off out for the day,I will see what of my post you have cut and pasted when I return.

No one needs to cut and paste ducks, but you are a behaving like a true disciple of the deceitful one. Two posts in a row aimed at the man – how salmond-esque and appropriate. Still when the yS argument is as poor as it is hardly surprising and I am sure there is more to come.

“Nope Ernie. It’s was a dig…”

There’s a phrase for that!

With CMD going north of the border to talk to the “silent minority” (wonder why they are silent?) there will be some amusing headlines to come today……

Cameron coming to Scotland to tell us what to do again – I’m becoming more and more certain he’s trying to lose this referendum.

There’s this assumption that the “silent minority” will be No voters, but I meet people who are silent Yes voters sometimes the sticker on my car or shop window is the trigger for them to tell someone else they’re voting Yes for the first time, Our Waitrose delivery driver* last week saw the Yes poster in the window and said “well done, I’d never dare to do that, but I’ll be voting Yes too”.

but you are a behaving like a true disciple of the deceitful one. Two posts in a row aimed at the man

😀

* Judge away

let’s include tax paid by companies for the sake of argument)?

Yes lets otherwise your point wont work. That is where most Head Offices are and the registered address so without your caveat [ which is misleading] your claim wont hold water.

Two posts in a row aimed at the man

Thans god you dont do that now do you….yours troll apparently 🙄

and the full statement

you are a behaving like a true disciple of the deceitful one. Two posts in a row aimed at the man

Its is one of the best pieces of satire i have ever read though …its not like you ar eplaying the man there now is it THM … oh the irony

Absolutely brilliant 😆 😆 😆

Wish I could get Waitrose deliveries gits wont come this far out

see Zulu’s description of yes voters as “bellends” yesterday

I was talking about your post, not Z-11’s, or anyone else’s. Is pointing out someone else’s behaviour to justify your own someone that you’ve learnt from the pupils you teach ?

You clearly engaged in anti-English rhetoric when you accused the English as a nation of being sensitive to criticism and interfering in other countries.

Now I’m not bothered by that but it obviously exposes as false your claim that you don’t base any of your arguments in favour of dependence on a attacking the English, something which I accused you of earlier on this thread and but which you strongly denied.

somebody like you who is quick to post insults based on racial stereotypes

Accusing someone of racism is a serious allegation and the mods would take a dim view if any cases were reported, the offender could expect a ban or at the very least a warning.

If I have been quick to post insults based on racial stereotyping then it would be reasonable to expect that my posts have been reported as racist by someone. I have received neither a ban nor any warnings for posting comments in which I insult people based on racial stereotyping.

You really should stop making stuff up and resorting to false allegations concerning other people’s behaviour in an attempt to justify your own, it’s rather immature.

Zulu’s description of yes voters as “bellends” yesterday

I never said that – read again, I think you’ll find it was Konabunny who suggested Scotland was full of bellends, I merely pointed out that the referendum would conveniently settle that question!

You clearly engaged in anti-English rhetoric when you accused the English as a nation of being sensitive to criticism and interfering in other countries.

That was anti-English rhetoric? **** hell, he’s right, you are a bunch of sensitive soles. 🙄

No he is not , each time he has posted on the point he says he is not bothered.

Yes lets otherwise your point wont work. That is where most Head Offices are and the registered address so without your caveat [ which is misleading] your claim wont hold water.[/quote]

Well it’s also where a lot of business is done. I’m quite happy for you to work on the proper tax model rather than the Amazon one and only count tax on money earned there, not tax on money earned in the rest of the UK going through a head office there. Not to include taxes on business done in the SE would be equally deceptive.

I’m not necessarily expecting the proportion of the tax take spent on PT to be lower in the SE than in the SW, simply pointing out that spending more per head there on PT doesn’t necessarily mean the rest of us are paying for it. I thought we’d already done that argument to death concerning taxes in and taxes out in Scotland! I’m also no more of a fan of things being London centric than anybody else.

spending more per head there on PT doesn’t necessarily mean the rest of us are paying for it

agreed but we probably are 😉

40% of funding for Crossrail is coming from outside London, for example. That works out at about £53M from taxpayers in Scotland, I reckon.

goes of to check Ben’s figures before commenting 😉

😀

(£14.8bn x 40% x 9%)