Home Forums Chat Forum Osbourne says no to currency union.

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  • Osbourne says no to currency union.
  • Junkyard
    Free Member

    There’s not a cat in hells chance of them doing so IMHO. Under what circumstances do you think such power will be withdrawn?

    Moving the goalposts – tired of straw mans ?
    The allegation is they cannot not that they choose not to- would you like to argue they cannot ?

    They can and it is not federalism- one of the few areas where we have a facts to work with.

    FWIW I do agree they would be unlikely to do this but there is nothing to stop them which is the point .

    aracer
    Free Member

    Is it? I suggested it was theoretical.

    Would you care to argue that the power of the Queen to deny royal assent to laws or deny parliament the right to assemble is any more than theroetical?

    oldbloke
    Free Member

    So that’s the unelected House of Lords removing powers from the democratically elected Scottish Parliament

    Not quite. That was the House of Lords proposing an amendment which was accepted by debate and vote in the Commons. The Commons could have refused that.

    The Lords can propose amendments or delay matters but the Parliament Act stops them from defying the will of the Commons. If you’re going to direct your anger at Westminster, at least get the right bit.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Here is what you said

    because of the purely theoretical power of the UK government to revoke devolution

    This is still not true it is not theoretical they can actually legally do this in reality and we both know this and Ben gave you an example where they have revoked it. It is pretty daft, even by STW standards, to debate this NOW. Its amusing you wish to move the goalposts to an entirely different pitch to discuss the Queen [ gawd bless her]

    They can and they have.
    I have nothing further to say as you are not this daft and I am not that interested …..for once 😉

    molgrips
    Free Member

    This is what happens if we all feign confusion over the meanings of words we all understand.

    I’m not feigning anything. I’m trying to explain that the concept of nationhood is arbitrary.

    aracer
    Free Member

    It was an analogy rather than anything to do with badgers.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Someone is certainly badgering someone here* 😉

    * is not a treasonous euphemism Ma’am.

    konabunny
    Free Member

    This is what happens if we all feign confusion over the meanings of words we all understand.

    When you say “words”…

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    😆

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Good to see how in the political utopia that is Holyrood, that freedom of info and honest debate is valued so much higher than in Westminster…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10850525/SNP-uses-majority-to-stifle-criticism-of-Alex-Salmonds-EU-membership-stance.html

    And who was mentioning the fact that AS has a long standing tradition of suppressing debate and opposition? Still, it’s only a little issue like Europe.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    It is such a revelation to see a political party spinning stuff to suit their agenda and I am shocked beyond words to discover this sort of thing goes on…thankfully only in the SNP and Holyrood though

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @Junkyard it’s a bit more than spinning when you delete evidence and conclusions from a supposedly independent report which don’t support your view.

    I also read this piece after reading the link posted by @thm Scottish Universities Preventing from speaking out against indepence

    I was surprised the SNP is claiming Scottish universities would still receive a disproportionate amount of UK Cancer Research funding post independence. I would have thought they would receive zero. That would certainly be my preference, we have plenty of English, Welsh and Northern Irish universities which would appreciate the funding. Why send the money abroad.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    The Vote No Borders mob are continuing with their cinema adverts, the latest just blatantly lies:

    NHS Scotland has always been totally independent of NHS England, and there are already cross-border agreements on funding treatment. Unfortunately political adverts are exempt from ASA regulation, so it’s not possible to complain about them.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    it’s a bit more than spinning when you delete evidence and conclusions from a supposedly independent report which don’t support your view

    Fair point – it is worse than that.
    I am not defending this report or what they have done but do you think better together wont have done the same and UK govt wont have either?
    I am not claiming the SNP are impartial purveyors of the truth nor a
    am I claiming GO is either

    ninfan
    Free Member

    NHS Scotland has always been totally independent of NHS England, and there are already cross-border agreements on funding treatment. Unfortunately political adverts are exempt from ASA regulation, so it’s not possible to complain about them.

    I’ve just watched that video three times and I still can’t hear the bit where anybody mentions funding treatment!

    On the point that they did mention – why on earth do you think someone from iS would be allowed to take the waiting list place of an rUK patient after independence?

    Its good old Granny flat independence again

    bencooper
    Free Member

    They’re saying that the NHS now is UK-wide (it isn’t) and that after independence you won’t be able to have treatment at specialist hospitals in the rUK (you will).

    ninfan
    Free Member

    and that after independence you won’t be able to have treatment at specialist hospitals in the rUK

    No, they didn’t say that, listen again – they said that you’d be back of the queue with the other foreigners on the waiting list, not that you wouldn’t be able to have treatment in the rUK

    The clue was in the phrase “they can join the long list of foreigners waiting to be seen” rather than “no, you won’t be able to”

    bencooper
    Free Member

    There are long-standing cross-border agreements between all Eurpoean countries – it’s not like Scots would go to the back of the list at all. Equally, all the English patients who come to Scotland for treatment would be able to do so.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Not on shared waiting lists!

    I can get short term treatment in France with my EHIC card, I don’t get sent over to get treatment on their waiting list because ours is full!

    don’t tell me – continued access to rUK waiting lists is another thing that Alex and his crack team will be able to negotiate in the 18 months after the referendum because it will be in both nations interests to continue with the current system 😆

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Its certainly a positive message as to why the union is ace
    Stay or your children die

    bencooper
    Free Member

    With the wholesale privatisation of the NHS South of the border, hoping things stay the same after a No vote is very optimistic.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Ben, there is no need to wordy about NHS Scotland – it is in very good hands with Alex Neil. After all …

    A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “The Health Secretary has acted entirely appropriately at every single stage of the process regarding mental health service provision across NHS Lanarkshire and all of the key information in this case has already been in the public domain for a very long time.”

    You are lucky to have a service and responsible MSPs to be proud off. We should be so lucky in rUK.

    With the wholesale privatisation of the NHS South of the border

    And the NO campaign are accused of scaremongering! Have you a copy of the privatisation prospectus? I missed it’s publication? Hope it does better than Saga yesterday. The IPO market looks a little soggy.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    I haven’t paid an awful lot of attention to the Alex Neil thing – what did he do wrong? He saved some wards from closing, didn’t he?

    Even if he did do something wrong, that’s a rubbish argument against independence – by that argument, Neil Hamilton is a good reason for independence.

    So you don’t think the NHS in a England isn’t being privatised by stealth? You think it’s safe in Tory hands?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I think you will be doing well to get a reply from THM never mind a balanced one 😉
    Re the tories given they said they would not do any reforms to the NHS and they then did another top down reform at some considerable costs few would believe a word they say on the NHS but yes they have not said they would privatise the NHS. Personally i doubt the electorate would let them but some of them would like to try.
    Ben basically the claim is he intervened to keep wards open in his constituency and this was a conflict of interest between him as a minister and as an MSP. He told them he wished it to stay open but then left the decision to another minister- the issue is whether he declared the conflict of interest

    Scotland’s ministerial code says that ministers taking decisions which affect their constituencies “should advise the permanent secretary” to ensure there is no “conflict of interest”.
    Mr Neil clung on to his job as health minister on Wednesday following a vote of no confidence which was backed by every opposition party in Holyrood but defeated thanks to an SNP majority.

    I am not sure why he thinks thei means the NHS is not safe and I very much doubt we will ever get an explanation. He is flinging some mud and hoping it sticks basically – to be fair so are you Ben re them.

    Basically I think we are in agreement that we dont really trust politicians to behave honourably or to tell the truth. Now on that point THM did you explain how the SNP were worse than UKIP? how are you marking that essay that makes that claim and then presents no evidence Teacher Sir?
    To say that and then then attack the BBC for hyperbole was a beautiful piece of satire.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    DP

    ninfan
    Free Member

    You think it’s safe in Tory hands?

    And whats that got to do with independence?

    By your own admission the NHS in Scotland is run separately from E&W under devolved powers, so even if the Evil Tories did privatise it (which they won’t) they can’t privatise the Scottish NHS

    Anyway, 4 years into their 5 year term the Evil Tories need to get a crack on with this mass sell off of the NHS that they were supposedly planning when they got into power, back when there was only 24 hours to save the NHS? I mean you would have thought they would make hay while the sun shined, and taken the opportunity to sell it when all those scandals came out about people dying in shit encrusted corridors under Labour, or when it came out that Andy Burnham had been covering up excess death rates in 14 NHS trusts – but no, it seems that it hasn’t happened, it was all just another big old Labour scare story (project fear again!) and the one financial basketcase hospital that was put out to private (well, employee co-operative) contract has not only started to break even, but has just won an award as best hospital in the country – while at the same time NHS Scotland have been missing their targets and showed up for fiddling the figures by dropping people off the waiting list because they weren’t willing to go to England for treatment 😆

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Ben, – few pages back, I was criticised for highlighting the fact that the SNP had a track record of suppressing dissent that falsified the idea that Scottish policies were somehow above the normal skullduggery associated with “normal” politics. Several posters have suggested that there will be little change in this respect come a possible yes vote, and this has been rejected by yS supporters. That rejection in light of these two pieces of news above seems somewhat hasty. AS makes Mandleson look a mere novice in the dark arts.

    The Scottish press has more details on Mr Neil than I will ever know! But for the rest of us are you arguing wholesale privatisation or privatisation by stealth?

    (Sorry if you are hungry, but I simply don’t waste time in feeding, you should have got that by now…..)

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    AS makes Mandleson look a mere novice in the dark arts.

    More hyperbole THM more hyperbole

    But for the rest of us are you arguing wholesale privatisation or privatisation by stealth?

    Oh the irony of you asking questions- chuckles – call him a troll Ben 🙄

    (Sorry if you are hungry, but I simply don’t waste time in feeding, you should have got that by now…..)

    Ernie asked you the same question – to explain your reasons. Is anyone who asks you to explain your astonishing irrational levels of hyperbole a troll? Its seems to me an easy way for you to avoid having to employ reason to your comments

    Out of interest how would you mark the the answer when you challenged them to explain their thinking and they said just said troll?
    Well teacher sir?

    You cannot justify much of what you say therefore you dont even try and just do lame name calling/passive aggressive stuff.
    I would assume – seeing as you reported duckman for his choice of words- you have reported me by now and I have had no correspondence. No one else accuses me of trolling you but you, lets see how you deal with that evidence.
    I am attempting to hold your view to some sort of of reasonable/rational standard. You have the intelligence to not try to justify your more extreme outpourings to me or to ernie. If i was to say what it said about you character then you would call troll 😉

    You know you cannot reasonably justify what you said hence i have to sit here being called a troll because you cannot apologise or defend your own utterances. On so many levels poor

    FWIW i have agreed with you on many other threads – even the UKIP one till you said that – if i was trolling you i would attack everything you said rather than just the OTT stuff you say.

    I have no idea what it is about this issue or SIr BS of Eck that leads you to this place where you just despise him and hate him and make outlandish claims about him and the SNP.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Several posters have suggested that there will be little change in this respect come a possible yes vote, and this has been rejected by yS supporters.

    I am happy to accept that Scottish politicians can be as devious, duplicitous and deceptive as any at Westminster.

    However, they are elected under a parliamentary system which makes them much more accountable, and much easier to remove. The SNP majority is an aberration – it’s likely that most Scottish governments will be coalitions.

    To repeat what’s been said many times – independence isn’t about this politician or that, it’s not about the next election or the next year. It’s about the next 10, 50, 100 years. It’s about changing the system, not worrying about the individual players.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Well I hope you are correct Ben.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    To repeat what’s been said many times – independence isn’t about this politician or that, it’s not about the next election or the next year. It’s about the next 10, 50, 100 years. It’s about changing the system, not worrying about the individual players.

    Two hours earlier:

    So you don’t think the NHS in a England isn’t being privatised by stealth? You think it’s safe in Tory hands?

    bencooper
    Free Member

    It’s perfectly possible to be both worried about current events, and step back to look at the bigger picture.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    You mean your long term ‘changing the system’ hundred year plan, is flexible long as you can keep playing project fear with the Evil Tory bogeyman 😆

    Face it, half the Yes campaign has been old fashioned PW’s throwing their dollies out the pram because they didn’t get the result they wanted in the general election!

    konabunny
    Free Member

    The IPO market looks a little soggy.

    It didn’t stop the privatisation of the Royal Mail.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    the Evil Tory bogeyman

    After independence I’m sure we’ll have our own Evil Tories – and they might even do better than at present.

    Face it, half the Yes campaign has been old fashioned PW’s throwing their dollies out the pram because they didn’t get the result they wanted in the general election!

    If I knew what a PW was I could comment. Making up acronyms which no-one else understands – are you sure you’re not THM?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    If they call you a troll for asking you will have your answer 😉

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    konabunny – Member
    It didn’t stop the privatisation of the Royal Mail.

    But things were cheaper then!

    Glad I avoided saga and quite a few now being pulled.

    Ben. – I am struggling with PW too 😉

    gordimhor
    Full Member

    Todays herald says treasury figures over estimate cost of setting up independent govt by 650%

    New ‘milestone’ Treasury scare story doesn’t add up
    Westminster exaggerates cost of setting up indy Scotland … by 650%
    Sunday 25 May 2014
    ALEX Salmond last night demanded that the Treasury withdraw a “deeply flawed and deeply misleading” claim that an independent Scotland would face an immediate bill of £2.7 billion to set up 180 massive Government departments.
    The UK has only 24 Government departments.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    So has the Herald got an early copy of the analysis?

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    5000 wow!

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