"Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

Stop ploughin arms into the region and stop killing innocents

😯 How many of those AKs and RPGs do you think were supplied by Babcocks?

I guess you missed my point, but partly my fault for being so oblique.

I get the point you were trying to make, it was just not very relevant. We all know what the CIA did in afg during the soviet invasion in the 70s. The peple involved now are a different bunch, mainly jihadi war tourists.

jivehoneyjive – Member

Sanctions on not only weapons+ammo themselves, but the materials used by the local arms industry will put a significant squeeze on all hostilities and diffuse matters, rather than continuing to aggravate them which is the current (profitable) policy…

You do realise the terrorists are using AK47 and not your western variant.

If it is M16 or British made guns I can understand but those are AK47 and they were/are produced in millions. If you say stop it, will the AK47 stops spraying projectiles to the innocents? How are you going to defend against them? Essentially, you are condemning those without AK47 to death.
🙄

Certainly no easy answers are there.

Especially when a powerful Arab state conduct capital punishment for blasphemy… see rusty post above.

Yet your actual fella… Muhammad…. was far more tolarent.

Unable to observe Islam freely in Mecca, the prophet migrated to Medina. There his first act was to build a mosque, the most sacred structure for a believer. An Arab man entered the mosque and urinated in front of the prophet with no care for the sanctity of the mosque. How did the prophet respond to this deepest of insults to Islam and himself? He cleaned the mosque, stopped Muslims from expelling the man and explained the inviolability of a place of worship.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-murderers-cannot-define-islam

But all the while The Onion summed it up a a good while back, in fact shortly after 9/11

http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule,222/

Or maim, or torture, or terrify or or or

If only it was as simply as …. Don’t

disgusting. have you learnt nothing?
where is the uncensored version.

#GLC

As for restricting the display of religious symbols, all religions are concerned. If a Christian wears Jesus T-shirt to school it’s just as unacceptable as Islam symbols.

Do you think not being able to wear certain items of clothes is

1. a restriction on what you do

2. not a restriction

Best of luck working out whether the freedoms have been reduced.
The fact you only restrict ALL religions does not massively counter the claim you restrict religious freedom. it just means you are fair in your unfairness.
What grum said re the viel as you dont even manage that

If it is M16 or British made guns I can understand but those are AK47 and they were/are produced in millions. If you say stop it, will the AK47 stops spraying projectiles to the innocents? How are you going to defend against them? Essentially, you are condemning those without AK47 to death.

Not if bullets are in short supply…

What’s the alternative? Drones?

You do realise the terrorists are using AK47 and not your western variant.

Are you sure?

jivehoneyjive

Are you sure?

I dunno what the context of that picture is but an MP5 is a submachine gun. That looks very much like 7.62

Do you think that Heckler and Koch came from saudi? All the pics I saw they were firing longs. Although there are long variants of the MP5, it would be a serious bit of hardware for jihadijean-pierre do be running around with.
HK was british owned for a while, I don’t think it is any more. Plausible I suppose, but highly unlikely.

Truth be told, I’m not sure of the context of the pic either, but it pays to inspect all available evidence: some say the fact there is no blood, or sign of impact suggest this is a false flag… horrific though that possibility is, you have to question everything if we are to get to the full truth of the matter:

some say the fact there is no blood, or sign of impact suggest this is a false flag

Ridiculous woo woo nonsense. You’ll be telling us that 9/11 was Mossad or the CIA next.

@jive at least you are consistent with always having a conspiracy theory. If you shoot someone and they die instantly there is virtually no blood. Blood comes when the heart keeps beating. I can point you in the direction of dozens of ISIS execution videos and you wont see any blood there either.

@grum they extended the law / clarified it to prevent you covering your face as it wasn’t captured clearly in the existing legislation. I don’t agree with the ban, I think it achieves very little. What’s interesting is that the terrorists wife was reported to always wear one in their home town of Reims.

I am surprised at the inference here that France is not supportive of Muslims, they make up 10% of the population and the left wing does much to court their votes. They are one of the countries to recognise Palestine and support their application to the UN and ICC. I think France is one of the most accomodative countries. These terrorists attacked the magazine as they published cartoons and killed Arab policemen as they got in the way.

see what an AK47 does to a watermelon

@grum, your linked piece was interesting, it made the point the Muslim terrorists kill mostly other Muslims.

What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.

So the biased settler policies, Placement of Catholic statues and the like and the use of the Ilaga, wouldn’t upset a population which had been Muslim since the 14th century a little bit?

20 percent of the population have been Muslim since the 14th century, demographics change. I assume you support the state of Israel then, seeing as their right to exist is based on a similar argument.

I seem to remember you don’t.

The west killed a huge amount of Taliban, but there they still are. It doesn’t matter whether you target the leaders or the follower

Except AQs ability to launch attacks on the UK/US was utterly devastated by the Afghan war, but lets gloss over that shall we.

Re: How do we stop this cycle, It isn’t going to be easy but i do believe it would be possible, those that are so far twisted that they are beyond twisting back to rationality will not live forever, what needs to be done is to address and understand what causes the radicalisation of people in the first place, and that may have many threads to it from foreign policy to our own societies at home, if we stop the recruiting then the “generals can’t wage a war without an army.

Those that are twisted beyond salvation need to be contained, it may not be a popular thing to do but eventually they will lose support and become a very small bunch of shouty people in the desert with no one listening to them, every air strike/drone attack that causes “collateral damage” just draws more people on the fringe to the centre.

True but then look at pakistan and look at ISIL or Afghanistan
Its hard to argue we defeated terrorism or AQ by waging war against them.
Many European countries have been the victim of a terrorist attack since then and AQ only did one before – on the US now we can add Spain, Holland,Belgium France and the UK x 3 US x about 10 to the list But hey it was not AQ so lets gloss over that. None of the european countries had an Islamic terrorist attack before we waged the war…that has shown them eh

JY. I don’t think we were trying to defeat all terrorism, its not really possible. There will always be a new group with some grievance or the other. The attack on the twin towers was as much an attack on Europe as it was the US. Not sure why you say USx10, they’ve had 9/11 and Boston. the Americans I speak to think their governments responce has been successful in protecting them.

What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.

You sound well placed to judge it.

I don’t think we were trying to defeat all terrorism

Good job as we seem to have created it. Why am I having to explain that this was my point?

The attack on the twin towers was as much an attack on Europe as it was the US

I know just like an attack on Palestine is an attack on the entire Arab community and Muslims everywhere …convincing argument innit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

wrecker – Member What time is the judging of the Walter Mitty lookalike comp? Plenty on here who must be in it.
You sound well placed to judge it.

Well if I’m judging I’ve got you in the semi finals 😉

Be careful throwing Walt accusations around. You could end up looking very stupid. Certainly more Walt than the accused.

Yeah you’re right I’m sorry 😉

Doing a bit of peacemaking of my own here;

although Junkyard and I have squabbled immensely in the past, I agree with many of the points he has raised in this thread.

Now, back to business; even with the overt operations of our governments, it is hard to gauge just how much of the bloodshed and continued conflict is due to our incursion; add to that the covert tactics of MI6/CIA/Mossad and indeed NATO and the true picture behind any and all modern conflicts becomes extremely blurry (and more than likely dirty)

Operation Gladio certainly set some interesting precedents and like Operation Cyclone (mentioned bit further up in thread) Operation Ajax or Operation Condor it would be very naive to imagine that similar manipulations of global politics by violent means, misplacing the blame were not still being carried out to this day…

True but then look at pakistan and look at ISIL or Afghanistan
Its hard to argue we defeated terrorism or AQ by waging war against them.
Many European countries have been the victim of a terrorist attack since then and AQ only did one before – on the US now we can add Spain, Holland,Belgium France and the UK x 3 US x about 10 to the list But hey it was not AQ so lets gloss over that. None of the european countries had an Islamic terrorist attack before we waged the war…that has shown them eh

Most of those attacks were homegrown but yes, you have a good point here. I sympathise with your point of view Junkyard.

Still, I think that without the Afghanistan war we could have well seen large complicated attacks carried out. Here’s the thing, if we destabilise the middle east and keep the nutters locked up fighting us/each other on their own home soil then they are to busy to turn their attentions to shit like liberating the “moorish occupied territories” of Al-Andalus. These are things they will turn their attention to once they take Syria/Iraq/Iran, they are absolutely crazier than most of you care to realise.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100213666/the-muslim-brotherhood-wants-spain-back-can-the-christians-have-egypt-in-exchange/

They still think they are fighting the wars of 800-1000 years ago, as such we’ve essentially been dragged into a religious war as old as the crusades. Same shit, different weapons.

They still think they are fighting the wars of 800-1000 years ago, as such we’ve essentially been dragged into a religious war as old as the crusades.

Hmm… The Knights Templar are apparently the basis for Freemasonry

#jokingnotjoking

These are things they will turn their attention to once they take Syria/Iraq/Iran, they are absolutely crazier than most of you care to realise.

They only actually control a pretty small area don’t they? And it seems to be quite chaotic. I’d seriously doubt their ability to create a stable state in the middle east then turn their attention to the west.

Ooh. Hostage taking, gunfights and car chases. It’s like a Bruce Willis film.

Following binners’ excellent point about it “all being about power and control”, where even if the whole world became a “Caliphate” you’d still get different groups fighting each other about who was the most Islamic, I’d like to see the general (media-driven) conversation move past the “they’re all terrorists fighting the west” description to this more insightful view.

The question would then become “How do we return the human impulse to exert power and control, to the established systems of governance inside democratic systems?”

Well, hostages taken. Can’t see the killers emerging from this intact. Just hope the hostages make it.

Wopster… You’ve probably seen it, but the point is made excellently in Adam Curtis’s the Power of Nightmares about the use of fear for political gain?

Its very applicable in this case. Algeria was a case that was illustrated. Its a dry run of whats happening in Syria now. Hardline Islamic groups tend to be very useful for overthrowing regimes, but once that task is complete, they quickly haemorrhage support from the population, who have little time for such extreme views. At this point they descend into infighting of the ‘I’m more Islamic than you’ type, as they try and assert themselves as de facto leaders in the emerging power vacuum, and then bring a population to heal with the use of barbaric violence and fear

Looks like we should all be prepared for at least one unavoidable act of destruction.

http://www.cityam.com/206794/mi5-chief-warns-paris-style-attack-britain

Two more dead, 20 injured. JihadiJean-Pierre and his bro holed up in a building.
Won’t be long now. Chance of a talk down are slim I reckon, I wouldn’t want to be one of the hostages.

Looks like we should all be prepared for at least one unavoidable act of destruction.

http://www.cityam.com/206794/mi5-chief-warns-paris-style-attack-britain

Just how much can we trust MI5?

What was the extent of their involvement with Lee Rigby?

UK security services are well known for collaborations with the US:

Government agents directly involved in vast majority of terror plots

all the more poignant, as there would appear to be much at stake:

All a bit Operation Gladio

Cheers Jive and I get your conspiracist views and lack of trust for the security services/ the man and I have some sympathy. However you are on 10 and I am on 2

I thought the same re MI5 a mixture of preparing us for somethign and trying to get more power and resources for themselves

I alios think of 1984 and the newspeak need for an enemy to exert control. Once we beat the Russians we did not have one. Now we do have a new bogeyman. In many respects its one we made as Bin Ladden was CIA trained ISIL was created in iraq etc Whether this was design or incompetence i dont know but we have helped create this enemy to our very way of life.

Re TomW I have some sympathy for your view
Neither the approach of “appeasement” nor of “brutally attacking them ” will end terrorism/extremism. What they are though is a measure of the content of your character and the content of your heart. We will not beat extremism by being better at it than them and surrendering our core values to the extremists. It may come to some gigantic battle and clash of cultures but we are some distance from this.

Junkyard – lazarus
Cheers Jive and I get your conspiracist views and lack of trust for the security services/ the man and I have some sympathy. However you are on 10 and I am on 2

Ha ha. Well put.

Junkyard – lazarus
I thought the same re MI5 a mixture of preparing us for something and trying to get more power and resources for themselves

The unfortunate paradox with effective counter intelligence and covert military action is that it tends to work best without too much bureaucracy and without endangering sources of intelligence – be that techniques or individuals and agents. As soon as too much is made public, the effectiveness is obviously endangered. As soon as too many people are involved in decisions, it becomes impossible to work on principle and react to development and exploit opportunities.

Two more dead, 20 injured. JihadiJean-Pierre and his bro holed up in a building.

Not sure that that’s correct, French Ministry have said that Reuters report was wrong.

Chance of a talk down are slim

Agree with you there, French armed police don’t tend to take prisoners.

Sky, as usual, on the button with breaking news:

Now

more than 1,000 police descend on a village north of Paris

Bit overkill

Not going to be any survivors from this

@ Digga I agree that the security services are stuck between a rock and a hard place , but, if i was in charge and wanted more money and power* I would go public and say with current resources I cannot protect the country

None of us know which of these it is

* or if i wanted to curtail freedoms or monitor the internet more or get more CCTV etc