Jeremy Corbyn

Yet the IFS did give the budget the all clear today, it would balance their spending Vs tax, including the proper police figures, but that bringing corporation tax back up to 26% might be risky, not as risky as a hard brexshit tho….

Junkyard. Again you still seem to be suggesting that ‘stable’ only has one definition 😕 even in your one definition there are many different ways of using it to describe something that is far from ‘fixed and unmovable’
The first example on the oxford dictionary webby is a dinghy, I don’t think anyone would describe a dinghy as fixed and unmovable.
Of course someone can create a base for a statue that isn’t fixed or unmovable. I’m very confused by your argument tbh.

I’m not sure how to help explain the other many many many many reasonable and accepted uses of the word in many different contexts.
Have a read up and report back with your findings. 8)

@cranberry stop that sort of biased questioning. Anyway Labour have said £250bn government money (ie debt) and £250bn private money (which won’t invest without a government guaranty – so off balance sheet debt basically). All £500bn will be tax payers money at risk.

Whatever the IFS say having a self proclaimed Marxist running the country’s finances isn’t going to restore economic credibility

Actual the IFS guy on radio 4 this morning was pretty balanced. When asked whether the corporation tax increases would cover the Labour spending commitments he said it would. He then went onto say it would a massive hike in a tax rate and that longer term revenue from the tax hike would reduce as companies got more tax efficient, stopped investment and moved activities to a lower tax environment.

So are the pledges funded – Yes, are they sustainable – No.

It was also pointed out that all tax increases ultimately get passed to the end user so in reality we’ll all indirect pay, the war on big business is an illusion.

And as we approach Brexit, is raising corporate tax significantly a wise move ? I’d say not personally.

Depends on what Brexit

Have a read up and report back with your findings.

Please don’t.

Whatever the IFS say having a self proclaimed Marxist running the country’s finances isn’t going to restore economic credibility

Prejudice.

Re the taxation, would the increased spending grow the economy? Even if it increases inflation it brings down debt held in GBP doesn’t it?

Tories biggest borrowers over last 70 years[/url]

Same old crap – Labour put forward polices and all of a sudden everyone is a financial and economic expert.
Tories put forward policies and the costs are not questioned.

excluding Diane Abbott obvs.

having a self proclaimed Marxist running the country’s finances isn’t going to restore economic credibility

You keep mentioning this, jamba, but as a matter of interest, how much of Marx’s work have you actually read? Or are you just blethering?

(Yes, that was a rhetorical question)

McDonnell talking about the plan to scrap tuition fees said “I call it socialism.”

So he might be a self proclaimed Marxist, but he’s not issuing Marxist policies, is he?

Some light-ish relief that hopefully folk on all sides may enjoy:

I take being called a Marxist as a compliment. Still waiting for someone to explain to me how a capitalist society is better for the average person.

uk corporation tax is at a record low right now

and below average

of course turning us into a tax haven is a dream of many right wingers

Corporation Tax is arguably worthless theee days with countries vying to be the low cost centre. Junker turned Lixembourg into Europe’s richest country (gdp/head) that way. Any graphs have to be relative

@molgrips Common Sense. Just show me a single succeasful country run by Maxists. A real country not a utopian fantasy

uk corporation tax is at a record low right now

Isn’t that only half the story?

Corporation Tax is arguably worthless theee days

£40bn in 2013/14. Worthless?

Common Sense. Just show me a single succeasful country run by Maxists. A real country not a utopian fantasy

1) Anyone who uses the words ‘common sense’ to try and win an argument has actually lost it already.

2) There can quite easily be a big difference between someone’s personal philosophy and how they run a country. McDonnell might agree with Marx but wouldn’t necessarily be trying to convert the UK to a Marxist state.

3) There are lots of successful countries that are strongly influenced by Marx. Scandinavian social democracies – you know, the ones that keep coming top in quality of life and happiness surveys? And have low inequality? I’d even go so far as to say the UK was strongly influenced by Marxism when it created the NHS.

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how a capitalist society is better for the average person.

Its better, because its based on a principle that actually works (albeit with flaws).

I wasn’t very familiar with Marxism, so I unleashed the power of google and started to educate myself a little. Didn’t take long before I came across this little nugget of joy:

Marx explained his belief that, in such a society, each person would be motivated to work for the good of society despite the absence of a social mechanism compelling them to work, because work would have become a pleasurable and creative activity

Now using myself as your average person, i can tell you for sure that work isn’t pleasurable, nor do I (or would I) do it for the good of society.
I like riding my bike, playing computer games and watching the odd TV show with a triple measure of Highland Park, and if our current mechanisms tying us to a NEED to work (home ownership, pension, utility bills etc) didn’t exist, then I just wouldn’t work.

So lets assume that 20% of the population just really can’t be arsed with working, but thats all good, bacause its societies job to provide for us because they all REALLY like working. How long do you suppose before the other 80% get bitter about the 20% of folks watching netflix all day in their underwear? And when the injustice really settles in and more people decide they’ll not bother working? What percentage of slackers before the whole thing falls on its head?
And then what? Use the military to compel us to work? At that point the idea has pretty much failed already.

So lazyness has already broken the ideal, but what about when our enthusiastic workforce realises they all get the same regardless of the work they do?

Marx intended the initial part of his slogan, “from each according to his ability” to suggest not merely that each person should work as hard as they can, but that each person should best develop their particular talents.

At what point does Jimmy the cyber security expert responsible for fending off those terrible capitalists think ‘well maybe i deserve a bit more’ than Bob who’s sole responsibility is not letting the fries burn at the fast food joint?

So whilst i’ve got a lot more reading to do to educate myself on the subject, i’ll summarise: Marxism – great idea if it wasn’t for those pesky humans.

I suppose it depends on how you define work…

Right, ignoring fantasy politics, I want to add to Ninfan’s point about Corp Tax…

https://www.ft.com/content/ca3e5bd2-2a7e-11e7-9ec8-168383da43b7

Question: Fifeandy.
What compels the already million / billionaires and already well off to keep on working?

ISTR Marx had quite a lot of ideas. We can incorporate some of them, but not others. You don’t have to sign up to the whole package, you can pick and choose.

So we want some socialist elements and some capitalist ones – which we currently do.

So it’s all a bit silly to bang on about Marxism in this context. We should talk about policies.

What compels the already million / billionaires and already well off to keep on working?

because they are hooked on being successfull and making even more money, not matter that they don’t really need it.

Fifeandy is completely right, there are a lot of lazy people around, and a lot of jobsworths.

What is the point of spending hours of your own time developing your skills to earn more money, or taking big financial risks that might pay off later, to be no better off than all the slackers that watch their hours, or worse?

Most people think like that.

So whilst i’ve got a lot more reading to do to educate myself on the subject, i’ll summarise: Marxism – great idea if it wasn’t for those pesky humans.

As you said, you have quite a bit of reading to do. Might make sense to read Marx if you actually want to find out about Marxism?

So no one answering fifeandy’s questions then? I thought answering the questions posed was vitally important based on posts a couple of pages ago. Or is the reality fifeandy is spot on about the average motivation of the average worker.

If I was earning the same as the people who work for me do I’d soon jack it in, the expectations on me are far higher and i certainly don’t work for the fun of it. If I had a choice I’d be out building mountain bike trails. It’s what I do for fun and satisfaction but it certainly doesn’t put a roof over my head.

McDonnell didn’t describe himself as a communist, did he?

Nope. He said he’s a Marxist.

@molgrips look forwards, companies are offshoring more and more the whole internet model encourages it. As I have posted before I think the corporate tax regime needs a complete overall. We have much more control now we’ll be out of the EU. Also look how receipts have gone UP when tax rates have gone DOWN. A few of us have been making similar points for the longest time here, its a tricky balance.

Marxism. Well McDonnell certainky thinks profit is a bad thing as does Corbyn. The latter wants to “reclaim” all the money he thinks has been “stolen” from “the workers” by the “bosses/bankers” etc etc

Corbyn is the communist, McDonnell is the Marxist and Abbott is just a bit thick. 😆

The latter wants to “reclaim” all the money he thinks has been “stolen” from “the workers” by the “bosses/bankers” etc etc

#jambafact

If I had a choice I’d be out building mountain bike trails. It’s what I do for fun and satisfaction but it certainly doesn’t put a roof over my head.

I thought the argument was about whether people would work without the fear of not having a roof over their head?

Your example is of a job that gives joy to others yet isn’t rewarded with decent pay.

Perhaps Marxism has something to offer you?

But enough about fantasy politics…

No my example is of a job that doesn’t exist because people aren’t prepared to pay for it. In my example I’d get more satisfaction from doing an economically inactive role, for others that would be sitting on the sofa.

@dd did you hear his speech ?

@mitsu 🙂

Also look how receipts have gone UP when tax rates have gone DOWN.

yep by helping big business escape tax and smaller ones to pay it

https://theconversation.com/corporate-tax-cuts-help-big-business-and-small-firms-pay-the-price-39828

Whenever people ask a question on here about where to go in Thailand or how to fix a carburettor or whatever, there are always lots of people providing helpful answers. For free.

Closet Marxists!!!

We have much more control now we’ll be out of the EU

We have total control of direct taxes and VAT can’t be lowered past a certain amount.

A draft of Labour’s general election manifesto has been leaked, including plans to nationalise the energy industry and scrap tuition fees.
The BBC has seen a copy of the document, which has not yet been formally signed off, with the Mirror and the Daily Telegraph also reporting details.
These include nationalising railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail and renewing the Trident weapons system.
Labour would not comment on leaks.

not a huge revelation, still embarrassing, all sensible stuff really (apart from Trident renewal 😉 )

Who thinks the utilities, mail and railways should be nationalised then?

molgrips – Member
Who thinks the utilities, mail and railways should be nationalised then?

not sure about utilities but 68% apparently….

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/04/03/voters-government-sold-Royal-Mail-too-little/

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/06/support-radical-left-and-right/

I have no idea why utilities should be privatised. The mess we have now is not really beneficial is it?