Jeremy Corbyn

@jamba. Deleted it. Sorry, but not interested. I can take other views but you just make stuff up.

IMHO

Your privilige and no I do not. Feel free to post as many things you think I have “made up” as you like. I have said many times read EVERY SINGLE post I make with [in my opinion] at the start and [/in my opinion] at the end

If more people had taken my posts about immigration being a major issue 3 years ago maybe you would not find yourself in this position. No it was all Daily Mail loons. STWers liked to mock when I said I joined vote Leave and spent time campaigning on the streets of Southampton but the fact is hardly anyone made an effort for Remain. Who donated to a Remain campaign or delivered leaflets or spoke to people on the high street ? We see the results.

Jon,

This EU / Corbyn / Labour issue has had thousands of posts. My 2 pence.

The Leave vote was driven in large part by a desire to end freedom of movement. That’s absolutely clear. Also our desire to be able to sign trade agreements with whomever we want, agreements for our benefit and not a hotch-potch of requirements of the other 27

The EU has made it clear that freedom of movement is a clear principal of “the single market” – as such we will 100% be leaving that. If you like that’s a mutual decision of the UK and EU.

Being a member of the Customs Union means you cannot negotiate your own trade deals. Hence we must leave that. Similar arguments re: EEA.

The EU has said we may not have sector by sector access to the single market (even though Canarda has exactly). This points to WTO trade arrangements as per US, Australia, China etc

So there is your “Hard Brexit”.

May is holding an election meaning people have a direct vote on her approach to Brexit. That’s democracy. Yes of course she has one eye on the chaos under Corbyn but Corbyn voted for the election.

Hope to meet for a ride sometime, missing not living in Guildford any longer. Its harder to get motivated to go riding when its nothing like as good.

Andy

Not you Junkyard. I don’t give a flying fig what tou think about any topic. My question was clearly not addressed to you. Reported

Read by mistake as your post name starts wirh a J

Lazarus, see?
🙂

Your privilige (sic ) and no I do not. Feel free to post as many things you think I have “made up” as you like.

I think you’ll find that’s already happened. Quite a lot. By lots of other people as well…

Your privilige and no I do not.

Err yes you do

“some interesting analysis (on twitter) of how Labour voters defected to UKIP first and are now voting Tory. Also a significant number going direct Labour to Tory now.”

A quick search of recent Twitter posts suggests we’re talking about this:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/05/ukip-gateway-drug-more-are-going-straight-hard-stu/

Jamba / Andy;

I don’t understand why you’ve thrown your toys. I didn’t ask you to email me and I’m not prepared to have a private discussion with you on this. As soon as I saw that was the intent of your email, I just deleted it, as said, not interested in an offline discussion because I can’t discuss with someone who is a/ more knowedgable and eloquent on this matter and will in a Rees-Moggian way tie me into knots; b/ when I feel I have to either have an encyclopedic knowledge or an online fact checker to know whether I’m being debated with or trolled. I don’t need to list out examples where your info has been discredited, plenty of others have.

I’m not a politician, never pretended to be, just a humble scientist alarmed by what I see happening. If I was more capable and eloquent then maybe I’d stand but for now I’ll settle for providing my support to people I trust on this issue. And I just don’t trust Leave, or May, for obvious reasons.

Re: Personal – I don’t know you, I can’t even say whether I like you ‘as a person’ or not. I don’t like your politics but if that was the only matter I wouldn’t like several of the members of my own family.

Any time you’re up here I’d be happy to meet you for a ride (a consequence of seeing the content of your email and deleting it was I missed that bit, now seen as you’ve reposted your email to me) – but politics will be strictly off limits.

You now seem to have a problem with me – which is fine – so i have removed you from Chub Club as requested, but if you want back in let me know.

Priceless

Seems like a great time to have an election from the oppositipns point of view, the other side in the media for potentially illegal activities in a previous election, all front and centre in media at a time people are slightly more politically aware than usual.

Or it would be if the opposition had a cat in hells chance of winning which Thursday clearly showed they don’t.

holding another election while the current government is still being investigated by the police for election fraud.”

Well, in some of those cases, like in North Wilts, the accusation involving the ‘Battle Bus’ and funds used is baseless, because it never even came here.
There was a LibDem one around, IIRC.

@theotherjonv

Will not want back into the chubb club thanks. I asked to be deleted based on your accusation here. The honest advice I gave on your other thread was my sincere advice. I sent you an email as the EU stuff on the last few pages is a rehash of the 30,000 post thread, its been done to death.

You didn’t answer what you thought I had made up. I have zero interest in the other trolls input. I specifically want to know what you think I made up

Re: photo I could not post earlier. Momentum arranged Machester rally. Nothing to do with official Labour. Militant Tendancy all over again with lashings of blame “The Media”

So, it looks like ‘the one percent’ is now ‘the five percent’

Income tax rises for everyone on £80k and above

ninfan – Member

So, it looks like ‘the one percent’ is now ‘the five percent’

Income tax rises for everyone on £80k and above

Ninfan, if you’re trying to persuade me to vote Labour, you’re wasting your time.

EDIT: reading that article, it’s all a bit depressing.

I wonder why none of the other parties are going after the conservatives on the election spending issue.

Makes you think……

Wow, jambalaya’s gone full-on weirdo. 😯

Makes you think……

Does it hurt? Hawhawhaw. Yaw.

CountZero – Member

Well, in some of those cases, like in North Wilts, the accusation involving the ‘Battle Bus’ and funds used is baseless, because it never even came here.

I don’t see North Wilts in the list of identified MPs? Michelle Donelan for Chippenham was rumoured to be at one point but bizarrely, it turned out that the photoshoot she did with David Cameron on the bus, didn’t take place in her constituency and it never actually visited there- she went and met him somewhere else to give the impression he’d visited. Not election fraud, just normal fraud.

@jamba

I will backtrack on the accusation of ‘making stuff up’ (others may not, that’s their call). I’ll go for your explanation of having opinions that I disagree with but you have in my opinion, presented certain of those opinions as fact that simply aren’t true. Whether that is deliberate or not, only you know (politicians of all colours have been known to lie after all) and the purpose of that has at times verged on trolling. IMHO.

If that offends, I’m sorry, but it’s how I see it. I’m not going to list them out one by one, I don’t see the point because you haven’t yet shown anywhere where you won’t just reaffirm what you already said.

You have your opinion, me mine, and I don’t see why that should affect co-existing in other non-political threads, but if you don’t want to then it’s your call. I’ve had far worse rows recently with my MiL without getting close to cutting off relationships. I had no problem accepting your membership to ChubClub despite differences, to do otherwise would make me guilty of discrimination. If you feel you can’t remain member for the same reason, feels a bit petty to me tbh. But again – your call.

The £80k tax bracket sounds reasonable but no doubt loads of people who will never come close to earning that will still moan about it as they have aspirations

So, it looks like ‘the one percent’ is now ‘the five percent’

Yes, and it should be. Those lucky enough to be in the 5% need to contribute more so there can be a fairer spread of money and resources for the less lucky 95%.

Why wouldn’t they want to do that?
Do you really even think people earning over £80K would even notice if they paid a bit more tax?

So googling for numbers 5pc of the working population is 1.6 million, the extra tax Labour need is 45 billion. (That’s a number the BBC quote from the Torys, anyone find a better number?)

So about thirty grand each by whatever mechanism is used over whatever period that 45 billion covers.

I guess voters have to decide if the Laffer curve says yes or no…

Looks like Corbyns back to demonising sections of society again, but it’s OK because 80k is loads, people earning it are just lucky and they don’t contribute enough already. If you look at tax rates historically the percentages were higher for everyone, if you want to return to 70s taxation everyone should be paying more.

It might start off with the top 5% but it’ll soon increase. Then again we’re back to the stupid situation where a single earning household of 81k will be paying the new rate whilst next door with two 45k earners bringing in 90k still pay 20%. Welcome to Corbyn”s fairer society. Simple polices for simple people, shame the problems aren’t as simple.

Any way not going to happen, Corbyn and the Labour party are a total joke completely out of touch with the average voter. Not everyone is as selfish, simple and self obsessed as his Momentum supporters.

^^^

Earns more than 80k 😆

Then again we’re back to the stupid situation where a single earning household of 81k will be paying the new rate whilst next door with two 45k earners bringing in 90k still pay 20%. Welcome to Corbyn”s fairer society. Simple polices for simple people, shame the problems aren’t as simple.

You mean like osbournes policy on child benefit?

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable, and sensible thing to do. We need higher taxes, that much is obvious.

Not everyone is as selfish, simple and self obsessed as his Momentum supporters.

Interesting definition of selfish you’ve got there. I would suggest it’s not them that come across as selfish.

This is interesting:

One investment banker complained that earning a few hundred thousand a year “just doesn’t feel particularly wealthy” when others in the City have millions of pounds in bonuses and assets.

The UK’s top 1% do not feel wealthy

Looks like Corbyns back to demonising sections of society again

yes because taxing the top 5% is very much like “demonising” anyone and it sure puts the Tory campaign of attacking disabled people and labelling the unemployed as scroungers into perspective

they want the rich to pay more tax that is all the colourful language is not helpful but it would be better if you care about bedroom taxes, austerity ion the poor rather than waited only to get outraged when the top 5% in society were targeted

interesting insight into where your moral compass lies

That’s a number the BBC quote from the Torys, anyone find a better number?)

You could use Labour’s number. Or any random number you want. The Tory number is demonstrably a lie as had been pointed out many times

However, stuff costs money. Anyone thinking that the Tories will deliver Swedish level services with low taxes is seriously deluded. Unfortunately there are actually enough such people to make it a vote winning claim.

but it’s OK because 80k is loads, people earning it are just lucky and they don’t contribute enough already.

Yep, totally agree – although I realise you don’t really think it is okay….

Can you explain why you think someone who is earning £80K per year is not lucky?
Can you explain why you think it is right for one person to earn £80K and another £12K?
Can you explain how taking another few % from someone earning £80K is going to cause them hardship?

Can you explain why you think it is right for one person to earn £80K and another £12K?

Damned straight! Why should a heart surgeon earn more than someone working in the pub? It’s a national disgrace. To the barricades, comrades!

He did not ask if you could mock the question they asked if you could explain

Can you?

I don’t think anyone is arguing that everyone should earn the same, but the current differentials are obscene.

Why should a heart surgeon earn more than someone working in the pub?

When the job in the pub doesn’t pay enough to live on then we have a problem don’t we.

Not all jobs are the same, therefore they have different salaries.

Hardly worth explaining, really.

He did not ask if you could mock the question they asked if you could explain

Can you?
But the question isn’t even “should anybody earn £80k”, it’s “should those people who earn more, pay more tax?”.

I think Kerley is accidentally creating a strawman against his own argument there. Don’t even go down that route as it’s a stupid argument, a neurosurgeon is clearly more skilled and more important to society than me (spreadsheet wrangler).

As for the selfish accusation. That’s bizarre. Wanting higher rates of tax to find a sustainable NHS, effective police, safe social services, quality education is selfish. But throwing a strop because you might have to pay a bit more tax (when you earn more then 95% of people in the country) isn’t?

Yes, the couple/household income vs individual income thing is an issue, but how do you fix it? If I share a flat with a mate then what’s to stop us claiming we’re a couple and getting the associated tax benefits?

Edit: Why bring up surgeons? That’s one of the most ‘useful’ jobs imaginable and pays relatively little compared to a CEO or city trader.

The Cpt’s wine cellar will remain well stocked in this event and why should he care about poor people eh ..why did they not work harder etc its HIS MONEY and the rest can well use food banks as that is why we have charity

Any chance of an actual debate?

the real issue is do we think the rich should pay more tax so that spending can increase on some services- NHS for example

i would imagine its a broadly popular tax given we all love the NHS and we dont all earn 80k.
Interesting both labour and lib dems saying tax increases and the Tories refusing to say they wont do it so it seems its coming whatever happens
Tories will probably raise VAT or something that hits the poor disproportionately mind as that is there way – I suspect there is a lot less support for that than an increase on the top 5%

🙄 Perhaps it best you stick to the notsowise cracks capitan.

a neurosurgeon is clearly more skilled and more important to society than me (spreadsheet wrangler).

and a refuse collector more improtant than PR person or an other job that pays vastlt more

we do not set pay rates based on “importance to the country”

IMHO the question is a moral one – if i work 40 hours and you do why should i earn less ? the answer given is an economic one hence we get this “debate”

You either want a fair society or you want a society with wildly diverse incomes

I suspect the answer is a mixture of your own moral code and where you sit on that disparity – very few of the top 5% seem to be among humanities more altruistic – its almost as if they are rich because they value money really highly.

“should those people who earn more, pay more tax?”.

Isn’t that how percentages work anyway?