Is the UK a Christian Country?

I hear that the North Korean authorities are releasing details about the late departed Dear Leader’s life.

Apparently, when he was born, winter suddenly turned into spring. Not only that, when a boy, at his first attempt at golf, he produced 11 hole-in-ones!

Next we’ll be hearing about something miraculous occurring after his death, no doubt…

😉

If _I_ was god, I would make sure there was plenty of good hard scientific evidence around so that people like TJ would not be in any doubt as to my existence

Perhaps there is evidence, but we’re all so determined that God doesn’t exist that we’re interpreting it all wrong … 🙂

I have no belief about god. In the absence of any evidence the only logical position to take is that there is no god. There is no belief in the matter.

But to take a position in the absence of evidence is belief, what else would you call it, or do you still insist that it is knowledge?

I base that knowledge on the absence of any evidence however as above its a logical / semantic / philosophical corner and it can be argued that that its not knowledge but a rational conclusion. My point is that it is not a belief.

The point is that in the absence of any evidence one way or the other, it’s not a logical conclusion at all. It’s a belief. Otherwise as discussed above you also knew that there was no such thing as the Higgs Bosun (or bacteria, cells, atoms etc. before evidence was found for them – note to Cougar, this is about TJ’s beliefs, not the scientists). Good job you’re a nurse, not a scientist.

Not all that interested in another answer from you – I appreciate you’re not about to change your position on this, as not changing your mind when discussing things on STW is clearly such a deep rooted faith for you. Simply pointing out the glaring flaw in your argument.

Edit: bah – typing at the same time as Charlie again, but this time I reckon I’ve got a more comprehensive answer, so I’ll leave it.

There’s “joao3v16” again with his/her “perhaps”. Get a grip.

If all the “interpretations” are “wrong”, then how come they all lead to stuff that actually works? Planes fly.

Magic carpets don’t.

If all the “interpretations” are “wrong”, then how come they all lead to stuff that actually works? Planes fly.

Last time I checked there was nothing in the bible saying planes were impossible (or discussing the use of magic carpets).

TJs main problem here is that early on he asserted that atheism is not a belief based position, when in fact, it obviously is. As is everything in our consciousness. We can ‘prove’ stuff beyond our reasonable doubt, but we still are basing it on certain very reasonable basic assumptions about the nature of reality and consciousness. How do I ‘know’ that this reality isn’t an elaborate dream, or computer simulation, that there is not another completely different form of reality that is imperceptible to me? Of course I don’t know. But there is no evidence for that hypotesis, and nor can there be. As someone above pointed out, the most logical and reasonable thing to do is carry on my life regardless, the ‘unknowable’ being entirely irrelevant, a bit like the concept of viruses and bacteria to a 17thc peasant, or for that matter, the concept of deity based religion to me.

Atheism IS a belief based position; as is everything. It is NOT a faith based system. faced with scientific proof of a Deity (if that were possible) a reasonable atheist would accept the fact and ‘believe’.

Last time I checked there was nothing in the bible saying planes were impossible (or discussing the use of magic carpets).

Who said anything about the bible? I was commenting on the claim that there is “evidence of god” but that we’re “interpreting it” wrongly.

Are you actually reading any of this stuff, or just firing off random irrelevancies?

So does the Higgs Bosun particle exist ? (YES/NO)

There is no evidence of it, but there is a concept of it.

By your own rules of logic, you KNOW it does not exist, because there is no evidence to prove that it does.

atheism is not a belief based position, when in fact, it obviously is

Nope. Atheists are happy to accept the existence of a god, but require evidence.

Religious people believe without evidence.

It’s a little tiresome to find that one has to keep repeating this to religious types who either 1: ignore it and plow on regardless with their clear non-understanding of the Atheist position or 2: haven’t bothered to learn about it before spouting tripe.

Higgs Boson (etc) = theory. Some people think it could explain stuff _AND_ they have an experiment they could conduct to test it.

If the experiment works then their theory is good for another day, if it doesn’t then they need a new theory. Cougar pointed this out earlier.

Faith cannot be verified experimentally, and if it could, it wouldn’t be faith anymore.

Mr Woppit, at least have the decency to read the whole post. I’m not a religious type, I am an atheist and I state that evidence is required.

Not in any way claiming it was exclusively Christian or that they invented it,far from it but I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it’s credo.
The Persians,Eygptians,Greeks and Romans never helped you out if you got a puncture
Oh and they all also had slaves…

Eh? Since when is Bethlehem in “the West” (in a literal or figurative sense)?

Oh and the British, Americans, French, Belgians etc also had slaves despite (mostly) professing Christianity. Apparently they preferred the New Testament to the Old.

The Standard Model of the Universe requires the “Higgs particle” to make it work, therefore it is being looked for. Early indications are that, given the right tools (LHC at Cern) it will soon be found.

The is no indication that the universe needs a god to enable it to function.

Don’t let that stop YOU hunting for The Snark though, if you deem it a productive use of your time.

Its now degenerated into a discussion about semantics.

The point I was trying to make is that Atheism is not a belief based position. Its the absence of belief. Therefore the question ” do you believe no gods exist” is meaningless as I have no belief about gods.

I was making a point about the semantics used and the sloppy thinking of the theists who equate belief with truth

Higgs Boson (etc) = theory. Some people think it could explain stuff _AND_ they have an experiment they could conduct to test it.
If the experiment works then their theory is good for another day, if it doesn’t then they need a new theory. Cougar pointed this out earlier.
Faith cannot be verified experimentally, and if it could, it wouldn’t be faith anymore.

That’s fine.

But TJ claims to “KNOW” things don’t exist because there is no evidence to prove they do.

Rather than “BELIEVE” they don’t exist, like most people might.

(I think it’s because he said it earlier and is physically incapable of changing his mind?)

v8ninety – Member
Mr Woppit, at least have the decency to read the whole post.

OK.

If someone doesn’t “believe” that the evidence of their senses is presenting them with reality, I’d say it’s a question for therapy myself. Especially when all the stuff that works has come about by loads of different people working at all sorts of levels producing something based on a shared perception of what is, or is not, real.

Proof of the Pudding, and all that.

Its now degenerated into a discussion about semantics.

Is that the new Edinburgh defence?

I was making a point about the semantics used

🙄

Last TJ post +1.

🙂

(I think it’s because he said it earlier and is physically incapable of changing his mind?)

Do you believe that, or do you know it? Me I have every faith in TJ keeping his position, no matter what…

Atheists are happy to accept the existence of a god, but require evidence.

Not TJ – he knows there isn’t one.

.
ATHIESM
.
a·the·ism

[ey-thee-iz-uhm]

– noun 1. the belief that there is no God[/u]

Crikey. I’ve just agreed with TJ. 😀

Do you believe that, or do you know it? Me I have every faith in TJ keeping his position, no matter what…

Does the fact he has never changed his position on anything (in the face of overwhelming odds against him) count as evidence, or absence of evidence?

The point I was trying to make is that Atheism is not a belief based position.

It would appear that atheism is not a position at all. But this shouldn’t stop you from expressing an view on the existence of a God. remember I’m asking you what you think, not what you don’t think.

The question was “do you believe no gods exist” I do not believe in gods in any form therefore its a semantically null question as the concept of gods is false therefore there can be no concept of “no god”

Its not that I am incapable of changing my mind. Its that the question is nonsense in the form asked.

You cannot believe in the absence of something that does not exist – its not a belief

If someone doesn’t “believe” that the evidence of their senses is presenting them with reality, I’d say it’s a question for therapy myself.

Thankyou. Of course, I agree. But you are still ‘believing’ your senses though? Obviously because it is the most rational course of action given the irrefutable evidence. Its when role start to believe things in the absence of evidence that it starts to get messy. Politely, that’s known as faith. (I just think its odd)

You cannot believe in the absence of something that does not exist – its not a belief

this is circular

You cannot believe in the absence of something that does not exist – its not a belief

OK – I don’t believe that there’s no chance of TJ changing his mind then.

the concept of gods is false

Prove it.

remember I’m asking you what you think, not what you don’t think.

No – you asked both questions.

I am quite prepared to say ” I do not believe in gods” and have done many times. that is an answerable question. However to ask ” do you believe there are no gods” is asking me what I don’t think. there is no real or honest answer to it

aracer – Member
Atheists are happy to accept the existence of a god, but require evidence.
Not TJ – he knows there isn’t one.

Atheists are happy to, given the evidence, accept the existence of a god. However, the probability measurement that such evidence is available, is a number so small that it’s as near zero as makes no difference. That is the gap through which religion still feels it is able to wriggle and still expect us to treat it seriously.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

CharlieMungus – Member

“You cannot believe in the absence of something that does not exist – its not a belief”

this is circular

Correct – the question has no meaning.

I think that what TJ’s trying to say is that rather than believing there is no god, he is ignorant of the existence or non-existence of Gods.

TJ is actually here, on this site, telling us that he is ignorant

Some of us have prayed for this moment 😆

remember I’m asking you what you think, not what you don’t think.
No – you asked both questions.

yes, ages ago, but you answered the what you don’t think one and continue to do so.

I am quite prepared to say ” I do not believe in gods” and have done many times. that is an answerable question.

However to ask ” do you believe there are no gods” is asking me what I don’t think. there is no real or honest answer to it

It’s not asking what you don’t think. Do you think there are no biscuits left in my tin over here?

Its now degenerated into a discussion about semantics.

I bloody hate anti-semantic people. My grandad fought in the war to stop people like you!

I’m an atheist, and I’m happy to say I believe there are no gods, if that helps?

I base this belief on (the complete lack) of firm evidence…

If someone doesn’t “believe” that the evidence of their senses is presenting them with reality, I’d say it’s a question for therapy myself.

There is no spoon.

But you are still ‘believing’ your senses though? Obviously because it is the most rational course of action given the irrefutable evidence.

That’s an interesting question. I may have to think about it.

I’m an atheist, and I’m happy to say I believe there are no gods, if that helps?

Yes it does help, it seems that everyone is capable of answering this question except TJ