Get your dancing on grave boots ready

Yeahp, you always need tools in the construction industry…. 😉

Perhaps it is harder for some to get access to it, but we all have the same RIGHT to it, no-one is stopping anyone.

Please someone explain to me why any one person in the UK has less rights to move somewhere, send their children to a particular school or have treatment in a hospital.

Yes, but that’s a bit academic, as right ? ability 🙄

Her government turned around an uncompetitive, union-dominated economy into a powerhouse that set a lot of precedents for the world to follow.

PMSL at that. Economic powerhouse, like the Great British car industry you mean? Fk, we’re such a “powerhouse” we can’t even mine our own coal, and jobs are so plentiful we pretty much had to make university compulsory to keep the dole numbers down.

Hora, the Welsh have been exploited for years by greedy, arrogant men and women who took everything, gave nothing and cared even less.

Next time you ride the Marin or Penmachno, go and look at the remains of Penryhn Castle and the many other local examples the arrogance and greed of the owners of industy.
Visit the Slate Museum at Llanberis, the little hospital above it on the hillside and the quarry itself. Read and learn something about the social and economic impact of the systematic rape of the landscape and the exploitation of an entire population.

Interesting to see the Animal Farm image Fred – that pretty well much sums up the other extreme where we all live in identical houses with access to identical schools and hospitals.

But of course, as we all know, we are all equal, but some are more equal than others.

Please someone explain to me why any one person in the UK has less rights to move somewhere, send their children to a particular school or have treatment in a hospital.

Perhaps it is harder for some to get access to it, but we all have the same RIGHT to it, no-one is stopping anyone

We ll it is true it is not lillegal for me to send my kids to Eton buy a million pound house and then buy Man u I just cannot aford it despite having the right. Are you suggesting the children of the wealthy and the children of the poor get – in the real world – equal access to things? As you need to purchase many/most/all of thses and wealth is unequally distributed it is clearly not true. Why do you need someone to explain that to you?
I get your broader point re equality of opportunity but look at the Oxbridge intake and % from private school etc for the reality of what this “right” means. There are many other examples we could use. It not being illegal does not make eqaulity of opportunity. The right to do something you cannot afford is not worth much is it?

Dancing would be inapprorpriate, but a quiet moment of reflection while humming the tune to Ding Dong the witch is dead?? Well possibly.

Let’s not forget the Poll Tax, Section 28, limitation on the right of assembly, the privitisation of essential services, & opposition to human rights legislation.

+1

oh and common people was by Pulp not blur. 😉

Elf for once I agree with you 100%, Thatcher sold us all for glue so her cronies could have whiskey

oh and common people was by Pulp not blur.

Of course it was:oops:

We ll it is true it is not lillegal for me to send my kids to Eton buy a million pound house and then buy Man u I just cannot aford it despite having the right. Are you suggesting the children of the wealthy and the children of the poor get – in the real world – equal access to things?

We are talking about access to schools and the NHS, not an equal right to have whatever we want. That would be just silly wouldn’t it?

m_f isn’t Eton a school then?

But there is nothing stopping anyone from moving to the area to take advantage of that

That’ll be like the day me & a mate decided to chase up some temporary labouring jobs on an oil refinery that was being built in Essex

The police were manning the road blocks on the A1 at Worksop roundabout, they turned us back claiming that as we were from a mining area, we were probably flying pickets

mastiles_fanylion

I worked for an independent charity supporting troubled school kids aged between 14-16 in London. My main school was in Islington, it was not the most needy school in London but was in T Blairs area. At the time the school had a huge budget. Much larger than other Islington schools and schools in places like Hackney or Whitechapel. I was working with up to 20 students a year. The average the other schools could afford was between 3 and 10 students supported. The school I worked in had a bigger budget and more resources from other support agencies than any of the other schools around. All were state schools but the students did not all have the same support.

MF

the disinterwted single mum junkie living in a overspill estate. How does her child have equal opportunity to yours?

She might well not fight to get to the best school locally, she cannot move to an area with a better school. Has the kidgot the facilities and support to do its homework? Is it well fed with a good breakfast before school?

Her kid becomes sick – does she scream and shout to get the best tretemnnts? take on NICE for expensive drugs?

No

She may have equality of opportunity but chose not to take it. her kid does not have equality of opportunity

Please someone explain to me why any one person in the UK has less rights to move somewhere, send their children to a particular school or have treatment in a hospital

Eton is a school that requires you to be wealthy to send your kids there.

I have the right to buy a house anywhere I want but cannot afford it is so it a useless right.
Ditto any hospital but I can only afford the state version.
Yes equal rights but in the real world only the rich /well off can use these rights to the full extent. Nit really a hard point to grasp IMHO

I have the right to buy a house anywhere I want but cannot afford it is so it a useless right.
Ditto any hospital but I can only afford the state version.
Yes equal rights but in the real world only the rich /well off can use these rights to the full extent. Nit really a hard point to grasp IMHO

So is my right to buy a Ferrari a useless right too? No, because it’s not actually a right. Surely the the right is to a good education, not to attend a specific school.

I worked for an independent charity supporting troubled school kids aged between 14-16 in London. My main school was in Islington, it was not the most needy school in London but was in T Blairs area. At the time the school had a huge budget. Much larger than other Islington schools and schools in places like Hackney or Whitechapel. I was working with up to 20 students a year. The average the other schools could afford was between 3 and 10 students supported. The school I worked in had a bigger budget and more resources from other support agencies than any of the other schools around. All were state schools but the students did not all have the same support.

But we all have the right to move to get to the better schools.

m_f isn’t Eton a school then?

Yes and anyone has the right to send a child there.

She may have equality of opportunity but chose not to take it. her kid does not have equality of opportunity

This seems the most level-headed response – there is the equality, but some people do not take advantage of the opportunity.

Don’t misinterpret what I am saying, I have no doubts there are huge disparities between schools and hospitals across the nation and some people are in a better financial position to take advantage of the better ones, but the fact remains, anyone is ALLOWED to.

So Britain’s the only country that has private education and private hospitals is it?
Well, I never.

PS founda picture of surf-mat

As my earlier post, from EHRC..

in the 21st century we face a fresh challenge – the danger of a society divided by the barriers of inequality and injustice.

For some, the gateways to opportunity appear permanently closed, no matter how hard they try; whilst others seems to have been issued with an ‘access all areas’ pass at birth. Recession, demographic change and new technology all threaten to deepen the fault lines between insiders and outsiders.

Not my opinion – quote from Trevor Phillips, Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission

Loadsamoney speaks cockney though. He didn’t go to a decent school I suspect… 😉

Not my opinion – quote from Trevor Phillips, Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission

Careful – Surf-Mat was flamed for not having his own opinion 😉

All this crap about how anyone can make it etc – is largely a myth. There are a few exceptions of course. People create this mythology around themselves and others buy into it because it suits their ideology. I mean Dubya referred to himself as a self-made man FFS.

Look at cold hard stats about social mobility in this country and you see the reality.

Eton is a school that requires you to be wealthy to send your kids there

I went to Royds Hall in Huddersfield (shit hole). RIGHT Next door was a private school. I never gave it a thought. Funnily when we arrranged inter-school fights we always travelled upto the bigger school than ours (Salendine Nook) that was a fair old walk.

Not once do I remember thinking ‘those bloody oiks’ have got it better than me.

Can someone have a quiet word with Hora please? Thanks.

BTW, Hora; where’s ma money, bitch? 👿

mastiles fanylion
But we all have the right to move to get to the better schools.

Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.

mastiles_fanylion

But we all have the right to move to get to the better schools.

That was not possible for most families. The point I am making is when you said

Surely we DO all have access to the same educational and health resources

I have seen this is not the case. I and my colleagues from other near by schools were in a position to see how different the schools could be.
Just to be clear, I do not favour once party or the other but did work in enough schools in the area to see that the students were not given equal educational resources.

Look at cold hard stats about social mobility in this country and you see the reality.

THIS is the point.

The Tory position is to spout this rhetorical nonsense whilst systematically removing the means by which social mobility can be achieved.

What really, really scares me is that it’s being peddled to whole new generation that appears to be completely ignorant of what happened to this country merely a generation ago.

Can’t believe no-one’s yet mentioned that Thatchler’s in a private hospital…

Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it is difficult (bordering on impossible) – all I have ever done here is state the fact the right is there.

Can’t believe no-one’s yet mentioned that Thatchler’s in a private hospital…

we’re all allowed to use that you know 😆

Back to the topic. I blame Thatcher for a lot of ill doings.
Her and the abolition of the eleven plus.

Okay then – take a group of people who are happy with their lives – they don’t have to be rich, just content.

Ask them who they “blame” for their happiness – it will be thanks their own positive outlook on life, and almost always, a good supportive family. In some cases, many will be content even if seemingly being dealt a bad “hand.”

Now do the a similar group of people who are deeply unhappy – in some cases the reason for their discontent will be some horrible disaster. For the rest they will simply blame everyone else for their state of mind – the government, their boss, anyone.

almost always, a good supportive family

so if they’re not blessed with that?

there is the equality, but some people do not take advantage of the opportunity.

no they do not have the financial resources to take advantage of the rights they have. They cannot in rewality tajke advantage of the right can they? I gave you the example of Oxbridge we all have an equal right to go there yet they freely choose to select a disproportionate number from Private schoools – that we all have the right to go to but most of us cannot afford the fees etc
There is no legal discrimination at work here but you cannot really be claiming that in reality is that we all have an equal opportunity to go to Oxbridge as the actual reality does not match this perception – more richer people’s go than poorer peoples Ditto houses and nice areas etc.
It is not equal but no one is banned from doing it they are just incapable financially- is there really much diference between being banned from doing something and not being able in reality ?
excellent we have the right to dso that which is virtually inmpossible unless you are rich in which case it is very easy. Semms fair to me 🙄
Kids kept you up you seem more argumentative than usual?

so if they’re not blessed with that?

They’ll still manage fine and be happy.

Just like the late Bobby McFerrin said.

Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.

The whole point of bettering yourself is that you become less dependent on the state.

However someone who pays £45 a week rent yet works will NEVER want to leave such a cushy home number that has all the maintanence etc paid for.

All the hard worker folk however get on with it, move to where the work is and pay through the nose in mortgage/insurance policies etc etc to help support the economy.

There will always be those that will sit in one area and say ‘can’t’ and given many reasons.

For the rest of us, we were brought up knowing no one should owe you a living.

Latest report says social housing is desperately needed and running out of space. Part of this problem is due to saying ‘yes do whatever you want/underachieve and over populate (the more they breed the more new council houses will be required) at others expense’.

mastiles_fanylion – Member

2Try doing so if you live in council / social housing.”

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it is difficult (bordering on impossible) – all I have ever done here is state the fact the right is there.

Thats the point. It is not equality of opportunity if some groups have barriers that other groups do not.

Living in London – when we first moved there we lived in an expensive bedsit and the girl I lived alongside moaned about her council 2bed flat in Notting hill that she was slyly trying to rent out.