Fatism

Some of the comments on this are unreal.

+1 and then some

Being weightist isn’t cool.

Waddling and sweating towards self-induced Type 2 diabetes isn’t cool either.

I guess there’s a point here, somewhere…? Of course severe obesity is not desirable, but that doesn’t mean we should point at overweight people and mock them or use their looks to make us feel better about ourselves.

I think its fair to say a healthy diet and lifestyle is both cheap and available to everyone.

However, it’s a complex old issue, eating, inextricably linked with self image and mental condition as well as appetite mechanisms which are more appropriate to a slight famine environment.

As someone put it, what humans are kind of programmed to really like doing is slouching on the sofa eating chips.

CG Grains were not gluten free when you were a child

Fattism is really more of a problem for the person who holds fattist views. Such a judgemental attitude is a reflection of their own insecurity directed agains other people that they deem ‘unworthy’.

Is this your insecurity directed against those you deem unworthy?

How come when I was a child bread was part of my staple diet and never suffered any ill-effects? Now I’ve gone gluten-free due to side effects.

Why is that then?

Presumably something has happened to (1) your gut, gut bacteria, intestines, or over the years a mild immune reaction which was unnoticed has grown into a large immune reaction, as gluten hasn’t changed or (2) there is more of it in bread now than there was, as generally speaking wheat for bread is more suitable with more gluten, so that is what is “desirable” from a breeding/GM perspective.

Have you tried bread from older varieties of flour (spelt)?

They should also have to pay extra to travel too. If I’m not allowed to take extra weight in my suitcase on a plane without having to pay for it, why should they be allowed to on their gut?!

Cos it’s easy to just leave stuff out of your suitcase. It’s hard to leave your gut behind.

The really really corrosive nasty issue in this is that the vast majority of skinny people find it easy to be skinny. So they think that it’s easy to do, and therefore anyone who’s fat is a lazy feeble minded idiot.

That’s a terribly attitude to have. We all know that some people find it easy to be skinny, they never put on weight, and some find it hard. It’d be like me sneering at some of you and calling you weak, feeble and useless because you can’t get round Cwmcarn in under an hour.

I know a fair few skinny people who don’t watch what they eat. I also know people who are a bit chubby and try really hard to control their weight. Last time this came up I was told it was because the chubby people (whom I know well) MUST be stuffing their faces in secret and living in denial. For ****’s sake people 🙄 If only you could spend a couple of months in someone else’s body, you might have a better understanding of the issues.

In summary, if you think you are better because you are thin – YOU’RE NOT.

Nicely put, Molgrips!

CG as pointed out equating GM wheat with your own gluten intolerence makes no sense whatsoever

I could potentially see that if GM wheat with increased glutenin levels were used in food then yes, but they arent (trials have been conducted) but its not entered the food chain

good ol’ fashioned cross breeding of strains is more likely to be a cause as this has been done extensively, but its been done for thousands of years and as far as im aware wheat has the same amount of gluten in it now as it did then

the immune system is very complex, I used to get bad excema and hayfever as a child but dont anymore, im pretty certain thats got nothing to do with GM anything

the vast majority of skinny people find it easy to be skinny.

The vast amount of fat people find it easy to be fat- we could easily sawp by eating each others diets.

I know a fair few skinny people who don’t watch what they eat.

I suspect they are as rare and atypical as the medical condition causing obesity.

if you think you are better because you are thin – YOU’RE NOT.

I am not thin , though I get called it and skinny. What I am is within the ideal weight band/BMI for my height – why do you get to call me thin and skinny? why have we reached a point where “normal” is thin/skinny?

yes some folk struggle with weight due to metabolism or medical condition but 90% + of the overweight eat to much and dont exercise.
It is not the ideal human weight and the ideal human weight is now termed thin as so few of us are it.

Simply calling it a disease doens’t mean it’s someone else’s fault.

Some diseases require a pill to overcome, some require hard work and commitment.

who called it a disease?

The “non nonsense approach” isn’t always the best one, people are not all wired the same.

Many people with an eating disorder (under or over eating) are well aware of their problem and the physical effects, pointing it out to them isn’t all that useful.

A persons race, sex, and sexual leanings aren’t chosen, they are inbuilt. Being overweight IS a choice.

Yes, of course if you want all Fatties choose to be fat 🙄 thus picking on someone because you dislike their appearance, so long as they weren’t born that way, it doesn’t qualify as bigotry and you can carry on being an oaf… It’s all about the caveats for the discerning modern bully…

An eating disorder is most typically a symptom of a deeper psychological issue, a derived bit of compulsive behavior in an attempt to either assert some sort of control or as a personal copping strategy…

Somewhere in that individuals history there’s a parent, partner, School bully, etc that helped trigger and/or deepen the cycle…
By chipping in with some stunning new insight about someones waistline, and telling them all they need is “hard work and commitment” (implying they lack these qualities) you could well be helping to make their underlying condition worse…

There is of course a scale and some people might well benefit from a gentle kick up the arse, but to think you can sum up and solve an obese persons issues with a couple of unkind comments and suggesting that they “eat less and move more” just shows a simple lack of empathy…

So when you’re mocking the overweight you might be mocking someone who is lazy, has no self-control etc, but you might be mocking someone with mental health problems, a thyroid issue, or someone who was ill as a child and had too many antibiotics. Probably best to err on the safe side and not be an arsehole eh?

For the hard of thinking, looking at the reasons why things might happen isn’t the same as taking away personal responsibility.

+100 far better put than I could

It does display a lack of empathy but it would also work
Just like will power will make you stop smoking or eating too much

I am not sure saying everyone who overeats [ or smokes] is somehow psychologically flawed due to issues. I am not sure that this is the epitome of understanding or empathy

I suspect they are as rare and atypical

They aren’t.

And a lot of people don’t exercise because they don’t like it. What do you suggest?

I lick fatties..

I’m fat, hence the username.

If you’re so small minded that you judge someone by their size then the problems yours not mine. I’ve come to terms with it and perhaps other people should. The question is, does it make you feel good to point out something to people? does it make you feel superior that you are clearly a better person because you’re not as fat as them?

It doesn’t stop me from doing anything so I don’t really see a problem. In fact I dare any keyboard warrior to have a go at me to my face, i get the feeling the wouldn’t be so quick to be so outspoken when the don’t have a keyboard to hide behind.

It does make me laugh that people get taken to task on here for numerous infractions but “fatism” seems to be fairly acceptable

It does display a lack of empathy but it would also work
Just like will power will make you stop smoking or eating too much

It’s really just the equivalent of saying ‘cheer up’ to a clinically depressed person though. Would you do that?

A clinically depressed person is ill. Fat people and smokers are not.
Of course it is not as simple as that, life rarely is. However those approaches , though difficult to implement and do, would work.
It would not be the best cessation or dieting advice ever delivered but it would work if the person did it. Just like me saying exercise more would make someone fitter it doe snot mean they would do it.

They aren’t.

Have you got some actual data to back up that assertion or is it just anecdote?

And a lot of people don’t exercise because they don’t like it. What do you suggest?

Dont consume more calories than you use?

An eating disorder is most typically a symptom of a deeper psychological issue, a derived bit of compulsive behavior in an attempt to either assert some sort of control or as a personal copping strategy…

I suspect this is the primary cause of the vast majority of obesity….

“fatism” seems to be fairly acceptable

there’s a minority who seem to go out of their way to do this but as on this thread, most people understand that there isn’t a simple cause to anyone’s size (whatever it is) and behave accordingly.

The anti-fat zealots do seem to enjoy wading in with all guns blazing, though. A little too much. It makes you wonder what their real motivation is.

Have you got some actual data to back up that assertion or is it just anecdote?

Hard data like this you mean?

90% + of the overweight eat to much and dont exercise.

A clinically depressed person is ill. Fat people and smokers are not.
Of course it is not as simple as that, life rarely is.

And yet people (including you) keep making out that it is that simple. As we’ve already discussed, significant numbers of overweight people have mental and physical health conditions that contribute to their weight. Also socio-economic factors play a big part.

Bit disappointing to see you getting all Daily Mail over this JY. Next up are you going to explain why it’s the poor’s fault that they are poor?

Next up are you going to explain why it’s the poor’s fault that they are poor?

We don’t need JY to do that, we have IDS doing it 24/7…….

good post cookeaa

Can we move this thread past the stage of “eat less, move more”, the physics of body size vs diet/exercise are quite well established, it won’t make for an enlightening discussion.

On the whole I think there are a very large amount of slightly overweight folk who are perfectly normal – they have junk food and advertising shoved in their face, and easy living on the sofa in a warm house, and don’t exercise, and have a desk job. Normal human responses to their particular environment, essentially. Lazy? Maybe, at this stage, but so what.

Beyond that point is where the emotional issues and medical conditions (and health problems) start showing up. And where help not pisstaking is needed.

Of course it’s not right to judge people for being overweight, but it happens all the time. I’m pretty nonjudgmental as a whole but I can admit to feeling a bit queasy when an overweight person gets in the jacuzzi at the gym, and miffed if I’m sat next to an overweight person on an airplane for example.

Why do so many people in this country not like exercising. In Scandinavia it seems everyone exercises, whether it be cycling skiing nordic walking etc?

Is it lack of facilities, cost, weather or something else?

Addressing the OP though, I dislike all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons, and reserve the right to do so 🙂
But I don’t usually point it out to them, as I don’t feel that’s how I should behave in a polite society. So in summary, it’s wrong 👿
And as pointed out ad nauseam, it won’t usually help anyway.
IMO.

As an ex seriously big unit who spent years getting bullied at school for being fat…no…banter and fatism doesn’t encourage a healthier lifestyle. It does however fk up your self image so badly that now I still see myself as morbidly obese even when logically I know I’m not too bad. Banter amongst mates is very different, but you need to know someone well to make sure that it stays as banter and doesn’t press some deep down buttons that’ll cause hurt. Like all banter really. Just treat folks with respect where possible.

Bit disappointing to see you getting all Daily Mail over this JY. Next up are you going to explain why it’s the poor’s fault that they are poor?

Sorry for disagreeing with you – who should i compare you to for disagreeing with me – Richard littlejohn 🙄
Indeed a shame to see that.

I find it quite strange that the view that they many have mental issues is the sympathetic one here.
I am sure its true for some but its atypical.

We live in a world that over consumes generally be it white goods, bike bits or food.
The solutions are both easy to see and hard to implement.

Sorry for disagreeing with you – who should i compare you to for disagreeing with me – Richard littlejohn

Surely Polly Toynbee would have been the correct comparison – seeing as I am arguing on the side of PC/handwringing and you are on side with the Daily Mail. 😉

But seriously JY – what is the difference between telling the poor to work harder, telling the depressed to pull themselves together, and telling overweight people to eat less and move more? I don’t really see much of a difference TBH. All might well be a solution to the issue, but none are particularly helpful to anyone.

I find it quite strange that the view that they many have mental issues is the sympathetic one here.
I am sure its true for some but its atypical.

This sums it up pretty well IMO:

On the whole I think there are a very large amount of slightly overweight folk who are perfectly normal – they have junk food and advertising shoved in their face, and easy living on the sofa in a warm house, and don’t exercise, and have a desk job. Normal human responses to their particular environment, essentially. Lazy? Maybe, at this stage, but so what.

Beyond that point is where the emotional issues and medical conditions (and health problems) start showing up. And where help not pisstaking is needed.

Big +1 from me.

As an ex seriously big unit who spent years getting bullied at school for being fat…no…banter and fatism doesn’t encourage a healthier lifestyle. It does however fk up your self image so badly that now I still see myself as morbidly obese even when logically I know I’m not too bad. Banter amongst mates is very different, but you need to know someone well to make sure that it stays as banter and doesn’t press some deep down buttons that’ll cause hurt. Like all banter really. Just treat folks with respect where possible.

Well said. I don’t imagine having people repeatedly bleat ‘eat less move more’ at you would have been very helpful either.

Question to those posters on this thread who seem keen on retaining their right to practice “Fatism” what are you really trying to justify?

So far as I can tell it’s just an excuse to indulge in bullying people based on one aspect of their physical appearance, is this behavior that you actually engage in, in real life?

Or is it just so you can push back against the prevailing PC, lefty, hand wringers on STW, and you’d never really abuse overweight people face to face?

Some people are fat because they can’t be arsed.
Some people are fat because of some other reason.
Some people are bigger than others.
Some fat people are fitter than thin people.
Some people are naturally arseholes.
Some people give a shit.
Some people don’t.

Just get on with you’re own life and stop moaning about others, help people if you can, if you can’t don’t worry about it.

BTW, I am 16 stone, 5’9″, beer gut wearing, pretty active 37 year old male, who will never claim to be the fittest out there but will always finish and usually not last!

Bear with me, and parking the whole bullying/abuse side of things for a second (for which there is no place).

Human process the appearance and attractiveneess of other humans – that’s how we work.

Doesn’t have to be a geneder specific thing, or involve carnal desires, it’s just analysing certain features and forming an opinion of how to interact with that person. We’ve done it since we were throwing stones at each other. Most of this processing is done within seconds, it gets refined further as time is spent with others, and nowadays we can engage other tools such as conversation.

You just can’t help this!

Sometimes, the image along of a person is quite ‘extreme’ and bang on cue, you form an view as to their features. If someone is so large you find them immediately unnatractive, you can’t help it.

Same could happen if you saw someone anorexic – probably more so as that’s a more shocking, less frequent sight.

If you knew someone anorexic, you’d really want to help. You’d have sympathy, your messages and suggestions would be carefully thought out and delivered sensitively. That just doesn’t happen with obesity, and that’s probably half the problem.

Flame away.

– what is the difference between telling the poor to work harder,

Others control the means of production so it is not fully within their control to do this.

telling the depressed to pull themselves together,

they are ill it is not within their control

and telling overweight people to eat less and move more?

its hard but it is within their control

You could argue the others are as well but you would be wrong 😛

Big +1 from me.

I dont disagree but they could change – though it may not be easy.

I dont sit around mocking fat people any more than I mock smokers or people who drink too much.
What i do object to is the abdicating of personal responsibility for the state of affairs as it is generally within their power to change , if they choose to do so
No it is not easy.

its hard but it is within their control
You could argue the others are as well but you would be wrong

Well having been clinically depressed (during which time my weight went up a lot, strangely enough) – I can tell you that the answer to being depressed kind of is to pull yourself together and cheer up. It’s just that this is massively easier said than done, and to have people say that to you is incredibly insensitive and unhelpful.

It’s also the case that for many poor people they could work harder and become less poor – however they are often hampered by living in deprived areas, parental lack of support/abuse, low self-esteem/ambition, peer group pressure, poor health, learning difficulties, etc etc

What i do object to is the abdicating of personal responsibility for the state of affairs as it is generally within their power to change , if they choose to do so

This could be a direct quote from Michael Gove talking about people accessing food banks (except actually he would probably be more diplomatic).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24042446

If someone is too fat/overweight/unfit/weak/skinny to do something – it’s not my problem.

If they want to do [insert activity] then it’s their responsibility to get into a suitable condition to do so.

Harsh but true.

Speaking from personal experience (having been diagnosed by several GPs as ‘depressed’), it is within their control.

Sue W:

She’s got fantastic bike handling skills as she comes from a mtb background, so is an excellent descender.

You are Paul Sherwen and I claim my £5

What i do object to is the abdicating of personal responsibility for the state of affairs as it is generally within their power to change , if they choose to do so

No-one’s doing that on this thread. Some people may do it, I don’t know.

However, taking responsibility for a problem isn’t the same as solving it.

Speaking from personal experience (having been diagnosed by several GPs as ‘depressed’), it is within their control.

How many diagnosis of ‘Clinically Stupid’ did you get.

Whilst the ‘abuse’ fat people get might do nothing but mess with their heads, I wonder if observing the abuse keeps some thinner folk on the straight and narrow.

At the weekend I was dying a quiet death in the run section of a race when a loud South African voice from behind me said “Make way people – fully grown bison coming through giving it some for the bigger guy- out of the way you scrawny antelope!” He thundered through – a big lad both in stature and girth but clearly pretty fit. Made me proper laugh!

If you knew someone anorexic, you’d really want to help. You’d have sympathy, your messages and suggestions would be carefully thought out and delivered sensitively. That just doesn’t happen with obesity, and that’s probably half the problem.

I’ve experience of anorexia with close friends and I think you’re wrong. There is just as much criticism (if not more IMO) of underweight people it’s just that there are less of them about. Some of the comments are similar, ‘just eat a few pies’, ‘skinny bitch’ etc. but then there’s the nasty Auschwitz / junky related stuff.

And in a similar way to how overweight people with medical conditions are lumped in with the people who could do something about it if they want, “skinny” people are lumped together with people with eating disorders. My wife is considered “skinny” by most people; and often gets snide remarks about being anorexic / bulimic which she isn’t (or ever has been).

If being fat was purely to do with lack of self control, then people must have had a hell of a big change in their quantity of self control in the last 20 years. Particularly given the evidence that activity levels haven’t changed anywhere near enough to explain it.

There are so many factors that make it hard for people to lose weight, and some are very counterintuive, like zero calorie diet drinks making you fat (thought to be because the artificial sweetness stops you tasting sugar so well, so you eat more of sweet things) and all that crazy stuff.