Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
I really don’t like the whole Max/Red Bull/Horner setup and the way they conduct their racing.
by beating Merc?
Good if a non-Merc won for a change.
Championship that is not individual races.
by beating Merc?
By making out they're always the victim, thinking they have a devine right to getting the best equipment, moaning to the stewards about everything but then playing the victim when decisions don't go their way, the way they treat their drivers who aren't Max, Horner being a whiny bawbag and Max thinking that he can do no wrong. I thought they were a breath of fresh air when they first arrived but as soon as they tasted success they changed for the worse.
I don't think its over yet, there are 133 Championship points available and Max has a lead of 12.
The title fight undoubtedly swung in Max's favour yesterday but its certainly not over for Lewis.
By making out they’re always the victim, thinking they have a devine right to getting the best equipment, moaning to the stewards about everything but then playing the victim when decisions don’t go their way, the way they treat their drivers who aren’t Max, Horner being a whiny bawbag and Max thinking that he can do no wrong. I thought they were a breath of fresh air when they first arrived but as soon as they tasted success they changed for the worse.
I agree. While it's good to see the title fight being brought to Mercedes and its really important for the sport, some of Red Bull and Max' antics make them hard to like.
On a circuit that favoured a newly faster Mercedes, Hamilton was beaten in a pretty straight fight both by Verstappen on the road and the strategy in the pits. If I were Toto, or Hamilton, I'd be worried.
Interestingly Perez was supposed to be also in a newly faster RB, He clearly couldn't keep up with either Max or Lewis for more than a few laps, speaks volumes about how much better than the rest of the field those two are
By making out they’re always the victim, thinking they have a devine right to getting the best equipment, moaning to the stewards about everything but then playing the victim when decisions don’t go their way, the way they treat their drivers who aren’t Max, Horner being a whiny bawbag and Max thinking that he can do no wrong. I thought they were a breath of fresh air when they first arrived but as soon as they tasted success they changed for the worse.
Absolutely every word of this.
I have nothing really against Verstappen, he's been brought up to believe he is invincible, but it's also nice to see someome properly challenge Hamilton. I have everything against Horner and Marko. Can not stand either of them, they make my skin crawl.
Would have been interesting to see what the outcome would have been if mini-Schumacher gotten straight out of the way like most other backmarkers would have done and not handed Verstappen a potentially race-saving DRS stint. All hindsight, but I wouldn't have bet against Hamilton getting in to DRS and then a last lap crash taking both of them out again.
I don’t think its over yet, there are 133 Championship points available and Max has a lead of 12.
Agreed, not really getting the “it’s over” type chat. If one of them was a full race win worth of points ahead then it’d probably be done but we’re not there
Interestingly Perez was supposed to be also in a newly faster RB, He clearly couldn’t keep up with either Max or Lewis for more than a few laps, speaks volumes about how much better than the rest of the field those two are
They are both bringing their A-game at the moment, but worth a mention that Perez was apparently I’ll yesterday and had no drink beyond lap 1, so possibly could’ve been a little closer
Yes, you're right mashr, I'd forgotten about Perez's drink issue, that almost certainly would've contributed to his lack of pace, good point.
I don't particularly like Max but hats off to him, he's some driver and whoever of Max or Lewis wins it this year it's well deserved.
Red Bull though are awful, well mainly Christian Horner and his whiney attitude are awful. I was also a bit blinkered to David Coultard and his Red Bull bias until the Silverstone GP, looking back it's pretty bad. I'd still rather Lewis win this year.
Lando or Daniel next year though please, Zak Brown comes across as a good sport too.
Zak Brown got himself a tattoo over the weekend as well!... 🙂
[img] 
[/img]
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-challenge-triggered-zak-browns-shock-tattoo/6704541/
Zak Brown comes across as a good sport too
The company I work for sponsors McLaren. Zak Brown has attended some "virtual events" he's a genuinely entertaining guy. We did a live Q&A over Zoom and he was engaged, funny and down to earth the whole time.
Slightly off topic, but it's my daughter's 21st in a couple of months and I am thinking of getting a couple of grandstand tickets for the 2022 British GP. There's a choice of Copse (A, B or C) or National Pits Straight. I was thinking NPS as seems like there is more chance of overtaking along there but Copse saw a bit of action this year. Which would STW recommend?
Perez illness...
There’s a choice of Copse (A, B or C) or National Pits Straight.
According to Christian Horner no-one even attempts to overtake in Copse.
Went to Silverstone for the first time this year. We sat in Village B for the main race, but now I'd say that Luffield B is the best chance for some action as you can see them right down Wellington straight and then around Brooklands, Luffield and Woodcote out on to NPS. We watched a few support races from there. Just don't get the seats right at the front or edges at they are not shaded from the sun.
Not much off track goings on to be seen in the support pits either - they all convoy behind the safety car round to the International pits for start/finish from there.
Actually Luffield might be an option as it's about the same price as the other 2.
Sat in Copse B back in 2013 and it was great! Saw a number of overtakes and you can see them pile down into maggots/becketts etc. Great day out, funnily enough, my mum and dad got me the tickets for my 21st! Really enjoyed it, great atmosphere and plenty to see/do. Was nice to hear the final year of the V8s though, my god the noise was incredible!
I was unsure about Zac Brown when he started, worried he was too much style over substance. But as he's gone about doing what needed to be done and since discovering his massive personal car collection he's definitely won me round. He has got McLaren to turn the corner and be well on the way to getting to be championship contenders again.
What happened to Bottas? Bit lacklustre from him and a poorly and dehydrated Perez had him well and truly beaten
The reason I think that it's all over is because Red Bull beat Mercedes at what was supposed to be a strong Merc track. Whatever Merc do, Red Bull seem to have a car and driver that maximises opportunities. Barring breakdowns (which Mercedes seem more worried about), I think Max will just gradually extend his lead
Interesting, all the comments regarding Horner and Red Bull I could well have written about Ron Dennis and McLaren in the early 2000’s
It was his attitude that put me off F1 for good.
Glad to see nothing much has changed
Very much agree jimw
Hamilton early in his career was a right brat as well and overly aggressive. I do have a little sympathy for him in that he had to grow up in public and later than most of us but the allegations leveled at Verstappen now could equally apply to Hamilton when he was younger.
He has grown up now and mainly keeps the aggression in check and its a very fine line between being too passive and too aggressive and his statements over BLM I thought showed a real maturity but there really is a huge reek of double standards on here
Hamilton was beaten in a pretty straight fight both by Verstappen on the road and the strategy in the pits
I’d only agree with part of that. In terms of pace on track, Hamilton was looking mighty strong when he was on his worn second set and the Red Bulls were on their fresh third sets: it looked to me that they both gained on their out lap and the next but otherwise Hamilton pretty much had their pace covered and then came out strong on his third set.
The strategy is another matter. It seemed obvious that the undercut was going to be significant so the question was who would dive for the pits first. Key to the race was that Max stayed close enough to Hamilton in the first stint: this meant that they could jump first unless Mercedes rolled the dice and called theirs super early, which is a big risk when you’re first on track. Hamilton wasn’t as close to Max in the second stint which meant they had to go long, which always left him the tricky job of trying to get within a second of him at the end of the downforce-critical first sector, in dirty air in a car notoriously designed for clean air running and trimmed out for speed on the back straight. His best chance was always to get DRS on that straight but it was a mammoth task.
nickc
Full MemberOn a circuit that favoured a newly faster Mercedes, Hamilton was beaten in a pretty straight fight both by Verstappen on the road and the strategy in the pits. If I were Toto, or Hamilton, I’d be worried.
From the moment Lewis got in front of Max, it was always going to be strategically difficult to win the race due to the strong undercut, especially with Checo having good pace and Bottas being back in the midfield. Mercs options were limited.
As far as I can tell the Merc and RedBull cars are still very close on pace, with the RB having just a slight edge.
The RB seems significantly better in dirty air though, Max was able to follow Hamilton quite closely for a surprising number of laps before his tyres went off. He did still kill them but it took longer than I'd have expected.
Also one other point, i'm not Max's biggest fan but his drive really was quite exceptional yesterday. I didn't see many mistakes at all from him in terms of lock ups etc despite his old tyres and pressure from hamilton approaching DRS range towards the last few laps.
andrewh
Free MemberWhat happened to Bottas? Bit lacklustre from him
He's not a great overtaker and as I mentioned above the W12 seems relatively weak following closely. I think he's kinda checked out since the engine penalty a few races back.
Lots of drivers turn into dicks when they start getting success - Schumacher didn't come over well but I think he matured well, Button was a bit all over himself in the early years, Vettel started likeable then the whole Multi 21 etc changed that but now he seems to be back to his old self, and Verstappen is probably still going through it - how he comes out of it will be interesting.
But teams - we've had Ferrari being dicks with the media, Ron's litigious war with Moseley (and becoming some sort of Howard Hughes of F1 in his later days) but Horner and Marko really take the "being unlikeable" thing to a whole new level. Stick someone else in charge of RB - Whitnarsh, Eric Bouiller or whoever and I'm sure they'd have more fans.
Sadly I think the season run in will be decided by a DNF - crash or mechanical - but I'd love to see them in a winner takes all front row at Abu Dhabi.
I think the season run in will be decided by a DNF – crash or mechanical – but I’d love to see them in a winner takes all front row at Abu Dhabi.
Some would say it’s a safe bet that the latter would result in the former 😉
, Button was a bit all over himself in the early years
It was Flavio Briatore who acused him of being a playboy🤣.
.
Actually, while we're on the subject of unlikeable team managers...
No doubt Max judged his last stint very, very well at the weekend, he just kept enough life in the tyres to keep Lewis at bay. The pace picture is muddied somewhat by the rumours that Mercedes had to make some big setup changes after running away with FP1 because the car was running so low that while fast, it was just hammering the floor. They were also running higher engine modes compared to Redbull but it could be that they maybe have a small pace advantage still that they couldn't fully show in Austin as the track was so bumpy. Going to be a fascinating end to the season!
I think F1 just attracts those sorts of folk, my dad (retired from the RAF) has said on occasion (especially fighter) squadrons messes feel very similar to F1 with young hot shots and older more mature guys, but all very alpha characters who all have to believe somewhat that they're the best at what they do. I think those high stakes arenas attract that sort of mentality. In the sense that you can't drive wheel to wheel at 200mph at a corner without thinking the other guy should back off, otherwise you've lost before the race has even started.
I can forgive them that. F1 bosses on the other hand just live vicariously through them, and their playground antics do begin to grate a bit after a while. Some of the autobiographies make for entertaining reading though
The pace picture is muddied somewhat by the rumours that Mercedes had to make some big setup changes after running away with FP1 because the car was running so low that while fast, it was just hammering the floor.
You’ll like this
^^^ Really good video ^^^
From the explanation the Mercedes suspension will work best at circuits without too many high speed corners. Like er Mexico, Brazil, Qatar, and Abu Dhabi!
Yeah but apparently they'll be down on power at Mexico (particularly) and Brazil....something to do with the way their turbo is designed doesn't get on with thinner air
In which case, if they can find that balance to drag the arse of the car like a dog across a carpet they might be sorted (but not too much of course)
This might be a metaphor, it might be literal, but it's a hell of a headline either way.
HAAS NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND WHY MAZEPIN KEEPS HAVING BURNING FEET
Anyone else properly excited about the end of the season?! I’m like a kid at Christmas sat watching P1!
The prospect of a close championship battle and 5 races in 6 weeks has got me giddy. I think Verstappen will get his first WDC, as much as I don’t like the lad he showed real maturity at the last GP and it’s clear he’s thinking strategically and not just about the next corner. It’s gonna be interesting!
I was NOT expecting that! Well done Merc and Bottas. Tremendous stuff 👏
That RB looked a right handful in the closing stages of qually, tankslapping in a few places. Cannot wait for the race tomorrow.
What's the deal with all the duct and sellotape on Vertsappen's wing?!
Significant rear wing issue found before Q1 on both cars apparently. Wonder if it’s the same as Austin but they assumed that was just due to the bumps there? By the sound of it luck also played a part though, one iffy lap was all he got in Q3?
The Merc looked a lot better in Q2 on the mediums than the Redbull did which could come into play tomorrow (admittedly I didn’t get to see any of the long run times during practice).
I’ll be amazed if they all make it through turn 1.
"tsunoda'd"
dear god Horner's such a twit
I will also be amazed if 2 Mercs and 2 RBs all emerge from T1 unscathed.. I reckon tomorrow’s race is gonna be spicy! 🙂
“tsunoda’d”
dear god Horner’s such a twit
Redbull make my teeth itch, I can’t stand Horner or Marko. I had Max in there with them but as I’ve said previously I have warmed to him this past 12 months or so (even though his old traits occasionally shine through and the majority of Dutch fans seem to take great delight at any other drivers misery).
Even as a Ham fan I honestly wouldn’t mind if Max won the WDC, I think it would do the sport good, but the thought of having to listen to Horner bleat on for the next 12 months would kill me. For that reason alone, anybody other than Max to win the WDC pretty, pretty please.
I will also be amazed if 2 Mercs and 2 RBs all emerge from T1 unscathed.
Well predicted!
Hmmm - well that was surprisingly dull. Hopefully the sort of race next years cars and ground effect will fix.
Probably as good as Hamilton could expect given that they expected it to be a strong circuit for Red Bull. Second with no fastest lap point for Verstappen, Mercedes would want Bottas up there though.
Hmmm – well that was surprisingly dull.
Have we had a decent race here since it trejoined the calendar? Can't remember one off the top of my head as they all get ruined by overly-effective DRS on the main straight or turn into a procession due to dirty air.
Also anyone else finding the season dragging in too long? Feels like we've had a full season and still have 4 races to go yet. I know a lot of the races have been good this year but it feels like too much of a good thing to me.
Also anyone else finding the season dragging in too long?
...my wife is!! 🙂
Haven't told her yet there's another Sunday night one next week.
And yes, it is dragging. They need to get back to 20 races max and 24 cars on the grid. Even as an F1 fan since the 70s I've not got much enthusiasm for x3 middle east races to finish with.
They need to get some more cars capable of competing, third place 40ish seconds adrift does not make for an interesting race.
Also anyone else finding the season dragging in too long?
Yes, I'm kind of waiting for this season to get out of the way so we can have the new cars.
I'm dreading them making that silly sprint race a thing, we'll end up with a really long season where to make sense of the weekend you have to invest even more time per weekend. We've been watching IndyCar, Formula-e and even NASCAR and they seem to pack more entertainment in a race than a whole weekend of F1.
What..............there is no pleasing some people.
We finally have a season where Hamilton may not actually win, we finally have a season where its still too close to call at the end, we finally have a season with races at places not raced at before, we have more races than before.
If you don't like it, go and watch something else.
Well, I nodded off at about lap 30 and woke up at lap 60-ish, and there'd been no change to the running order.
Some GPs just aren't that interesting
its still too close to call at the end
I don't think it is....
Well, I nodded off at about lap 30
Went to bed as it was clear where the race was going. What a contrast to the US race, which kept me pinned to the screen.
its still too close to call at the end
I don’t think it is….
I think if Lewis had that lead it'd be done. With Max ahead there is more possibility of an upset. Wouldn't be surprised if he had an off before the end.
I don’t think it is….
I think it's Max's to loose quite honestly, and if he does win the championship, it'll be well deserved, he's driven brilliantly this year, and it's been great to watch some-one take the fight to Mercedes who've been overly dominant these last few seasons. About the only interesting thing that happened at yesterdays GP was watching him go from 3rd to 1st in a bit of a straight and a corner...amazing driving
Max has a 19 point lead with four races to go. One DNF and that lead is gone. Two Merc 1-2 finishes with Max third and that lead is gone. Still, he has to be favourite at this point. He has driven brilliantly and Red Bull and Honda have given him a very fast car.
Made the mistake of watching the highlights on the All4 website. What an awful streaming service. Makes this place seem like a paragon of internet stability.
19 Point gap with 4 races to go...
Its not unassailable yet for sure. A victory is a 7 point swing even if the other driver is in second, plus fastest laps and next up is a sprint race.
I think its done and dusted if Max wins another race though
My predictions from 7 months ago
1. Gasly will get a podium- Yep, 3rd in Azerbaijan
2. Alonso will make the Alpine look like a better car than it actually is - Mostly wrong I reckon, Ocon has scored their only win and the team is mid table, Ocon just behind Alonso
3. Perez will give Verstappen a run for his money - Haha, badly wrong
4. Vettel will make Stroll look like an amateur. Mostly wrong again I think, Vettel has twice the points haul, and has been on something of an overtaking blitz, but only one place down is Stroll quietly going about his business
5. Norris will outqualify Ricciardo in most races, Ricciardo will place higher in most races - Mostly wrong, I think apart from the one race win, Norris has had the better year. Ricciardo having something of a mare
and…
Verstappen 1st, Hamilton 2nd ,Bottas 3rd in the championship- Phew, still some time to **** this up as well though ...
oh yeah, forgot one, Hamilton will break the 100 barrier for race wins…which if it happens will be just amazing!
Correct.
4. Vettel will make Stroll look like an amateur. Mostly wrong again I think, Vettel has twice the points haul, and has been on something of an overtaking blitz, but only one place down is Stroll quietly going about his business
Be fair - Vettel would have had another 18 points wouldn’t he if he’d had another half pint of fuel.
If he'd driven a percentages game at times Max should really be out of sight of Hamilton by now.
With its tight nature Brazil should be a Red Bull track. Not sure about the others as one is new (and might not even be finished on time!) and Abu Dhabi has major layout modifications.
The predictions are on page 11 of this thread if you want a laugh
Mine were
1. Vettel and Lance Stroll will run into each other more than once.
Well they hit each other but only once.
2. Verstappen will get a race ban for punching someone in the pit lane
Nope
3. Binnoti will be sacked after Monza as Ferrari are still underperforming
Nope
4. We’ll have a new race winner
Yep Ocon
5. Haas will either disappear or by bought out by the end of the season
Nope (kind of amazed they haven't but there we are)
5. Haas will either disappear or by bought out by the end of the season
Nope (kind of amazed they haven’t but there we are)
It might still happen!... 🤣🤣🤣
[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyyS85AWgAEYPvq?format=jpg&name=large [/img]
https://twitter.com/richenergyceo/status/1457404511681753095
https://twitter.com/rich_energy/status/1381640934581014529
Christ, what a fantasist
Have found mine from page 11:
1. Mazepin will receive a race ban for unsportsmanlike conduct
Mazepin has accumulated six penalty points to Schumacher's zero, but has so far not been sanctioned with a ban.
2. Ricciardo will be a regular top six qualifier
So far out of eighteen races, Ricciardo has qualified in the top six eight times and of course has won a race. That I'm disappointed with Ricciardo's qualifying stats this year shows just how far McLaren has come.
3. Russell to score maiden Williams points at Silverstone
I was one race out - Russell scored eighth place at the Hungaroring.
4. Gasly will outscore Stroll, Alonso will outscore Ocon
Current standings are 9th - Gasly, 10th - Alonso, 11th - Ocon and 13th - Stroll.
5. Norris will score at least two podiums
Four podiums so far, including a second place at Monza. Again, better than I dared hope for McLaren this season.
Christ, what a fantasist
Bloody hell... Storey's twitter feed is awash with covid and climate change skepticism and some shares from a few unsavory characters' accounts.
nickc
2. Alonso will make the Alpine look like a better car than it actually is – Mostly wrong I reckon, Ocon has scored their only win and the team is mid table, Ocon just behind Alonso
Ocon's win was a fluke and without it, he'd be sooo far behind Alonso and this despite Alonso not being in a car capable of achieving double digit championship points shows how consistently Also has beaten him despite being out of F1 for a number of years.
Well done PJM, your predictions were much better than mine!
although @pook's first comment on the thread was predicting Russel to Merc...pretty much bang on 11 months ago!
1. This will be Vettel’s last year, Stroll will beat him too often and he will call it a day. Replaced by Hulk.
2. Williams will beat Haas and Alpha
3. Perez will win two races
4. Bottas will lead the championship early on and then fade away (again)
5. The two drivers to hit each other most often will be Verstappen and Leclerc
One out of five so far... Although it would nice to see Checo get another win
1 Williams will make at least one Q3 session
2 Vettel won’t outclass Stroll at AM
3 Alonso to be out qualified by Ocon overall but end up with better race results
4 Rich Energy will not buy a team, become a sponsor or even sell a can of drink at an F1 circuit
5 Mclaren will win a race, it’ll take unusual circumstances but it’ll happen
Not bad
Oh and I'd expect some pretty big gaps in the field next year too - new regs usually spread the field
Oh and I’d expect some pretty big gaps in the field next year too – new regs usually spread the field
This is true. Ive always thought it weird that keel trying to change things to make it closer, usually has the opposite effect.
There's been a few dull races this year, Zanvoort and Mexico immediately spring to mind, but overall its bee pretty good. A shake up will, as you say, spread them out agian, maybe in a different order, but will spread them out. It also does absolutely nothing to cut costs, which seems to be their other target, the less stuff you can carry over the more expensive it will be.
If anything needs changed it's some of the circuits.
Twodogs
Full Member
1 Alonso won’t get a podium, cos the Renault (sorry, Alpine) will be heap of junk
2 Mclaren to score a race win with Riciardo
3 Bottas to finish outside top 5 in the Championship
4 Perez will be soundly beaten by his team mate
5 Christian Horner will blame everyone else for Red Bull not winning
3 right....even if Red Bull do win ultimately, he's certainly blaming everyone else when anything goes wrong!
I think it well be max. Perez is doing a great job in support whilst Bottas seems to have gone out to lunch. Yes he was unlucky at the start to get hit but there appeared to be no fight to get back into top half of the finishing list before he was tasked with taking fastest lap
Bloody hell… Storey’s twitter feed is awash with covid and climate change skepticism and some shares from a few unsavory characters’ accounts.
What's his opinion on Sam Pilgrim?
My predictions from page 1:
a re-run of this year with (Hamilton) leading Bottas seems pretty likely.
Nope.
Red Bull with Perez in the second seat to be runners-up again. Perez might push Verstappen, but it’s also possible he’ll find the car tricky to get on top of and end up like Albon.
Was sitting on the fence there so doesn't count.
Ferrari will be much improved. They have a new engine on the dyno and they should understand their aero problem. Sainz should be much more competitive than Vettel, so they should be able to compete with Renault and McLaren for third.
Yes.
Renault look to be getting on top of their problems so Alonso should be able to battle with the Ferraris and Red Bulls for podium spots,
Nope.
McLaren somewhere in that battle for third to fifth. They will have a better engine and Ricciardo will help, but probably about the same as this year.
Kinda, but Ricciardo didn't really help overall.
Racing Point will be less competitive. They will need to start developing their own car a bit more
Yes.
Alpha Tauri seventh. Gasly seems decent, but they will have a new driver who may cost them points.
Kinda, but Renault and Racing Point slipped badly.
Williams will probably be improved, but still last because the Ferrari engine should be much better, so Alpha Romeo and Haas eighth and ninth.
Nope, Williams have impressed, the other two haven't.
I don't think Russell to Merc was much if a risky prediction. Over on Twitter I did call perfectly how the Kimi, Russell, Bottas cards would fall though - much to Hora and Matt's irritation
Hmm. Wait and see what the payout is, Baku is a street circuit and that's always fun
looking forward to next year, and hoping that someone does what Brawn did in 2009(?) and steals the show from Merc, RB etc.
I thought the London GP was the sort of story that Bernie rolled out during the winter to keep F1 in the news - it's been talked about for years but has never come to pass.
I thought the London GP was the sort of story that Bernie rolled out during the winter to keep F1 in the news – it’s been talked about for years but has never come to pass.
There was talk one year of it going around Trafalgar Square and up The Mall - the papers had lots of glossy CGI pics of what it could look like. However they never printed any pics of what it could look like if a car ended up buried in Admiralty Arch.
There was also something about all the manhole covers needing to be massively strengthened / bolted down to avoid being sucked into the underside of the car.