F1 2016 (Bound to contain spoilers!)

But from Mercs point of view they they invest millions to win, and they don’t care which of their drivers wins as long as they win. Hamilton was putting the race win at risk, hence, the call to hurry up.

Hamilton did exactly what a true racer would do…. If anything he should have slowed up even more !
The real issue is Hamilton being ungracious and Grumpy in defeat !

Exactly.

Hamilton was putting the race win at risk, hence, the call to hurry up.

Was he?
Backing up put NR’s position at risk, not the race winner. MB were always going to win the race and the championship. LH did the only thing he could to try and win.

Hamilton was putting the race win at risk, hence, the call to hurry up.

He did, speed up, at all the overtaking spots and crawled around the twisties, he even told Paddy Lowe, so he must’ve been in control and the win not have been at risk. As the result showed.

Well Mercs own race modelling had Vettel as possible winner, so yeah Hamilton could have put the race at risk. Vettel himself said he didn’t want to get involved in the Championship battle and so would only overtake both or neither.

The real issue is Hamilton being ungracious and Grumpy in defeat !

+1

If Mercedes don’t want this sort of situation they should have a clear No1 (like Ferrari used to) and not pretend drivers are free to race

That’s a fundamentally incorrect statement – he did lose the Championship because of a single mechanical failure. Not only that, but there were several instances of a single mechanical failure costing him the championship. He might have still won despite all those mechanicals if he’d not had those poor starts, but those things aren’t exclusive – he’d have still won despite the poor starts if he hadn’t had those mechanicals.

Lewis lost the Championship and Nico deservedly won.

Only if you think LH deserved the poor reliability.

Yes, the mechanical hurt Lewis, just like it hurt Nico in 2014

er, in 2014 they both had 2 retirements due to mechanical failure – oh and of course LH also had one due to being hit by Britney.

In which case you’re going to have to explain why you reckon “the right guy won the championship today”

For the record I’m not even a LH fan – my boy just retired today.

In which case you’re going to have to explain why you reckon “the right guy won the championship today”

If could just leap in here. He scored more points, that makes him the right guy.

Vettel himself said he didn’t want to get involved in the Championship battle and so would only overtake both or neither.

Where did he say that? I can’t find it.

So it was a tautology? 😕

What was?

From BBC

“It was a tricky situation at the end with Lewis playing dirty tricks,” Vettel said to his team as they congratulated him over the radio.

“It was tough out there. I didn’t want to be an issue. But at the end I was thinking maybe to try to pass both of them but it didn’t work out.”

Ah, interesting. Well if he really meant he would only want to overtake both not just one, then that shows a remarkably sporting side of his nature.

merc deserved it

As for the drivers…..????

Pity the champs were a one car event, Vettel, Button, Alonso, etc merely making up numbers. I am genuinely amazed at how in such a competitive environment, one team can be so dominant.

Slowman – of course if he’d demoted Rosberg there was a chance Hamilton would join him on 4 championships – enlightened self interest?

(And Vettel is one of my favourite drivers)

Pity the champs were a one car event, Vettel, Button, Alonso, etc merely making up numbers. I am genuinely amazed at how in such a competitive environment, one team can be so dominant.

Lack of in season testing, engine upgrade tokens and the like does not help.

well done Nico, Hopefully Ferrari and Red Bull will be back to normal next season and we might see some racing…

I am genuinely amazed at how in such a competitive environment, one team can be so dominant.

Are you new to F1? 😆 (check out the 1988 season.)

Are you new to F1? (check out the 1988 season.)

And the 1992 season and a 2 or 3 the of the Schumi/ Ferrari years.

The big thing for Mercedes though is the fact their power unit was/still is to extent so far ahead in terms of design the other teams couldn’t catch up. Their design was fundamentally different and not something the other teams could replicate without a total redesign.

It is highly usual for a team to come up with something the other teams simply cannot replicate in some form.

I wonder if Rosberg will have No.1 on his car next year, or keep 6?

Not new no, merely largely disinterested barr the first corner.

The sport largely passes me buy. More of a general question about how so many bright people can allow one team to be so dominant at any one time.

More of a general question about how so many bright people can allow one team to be so dominant at any one time.

The many bright people in the other teams probably could have caught the Mercedes engine up. But the rules over the last 3 years have only allowed a small number of engine modifications each season. A complete overhaul wasn’t allowed. So if you started with a rubbish engine you were kind of stuck with it!

From next season this rule has been dropped and the engine manufacturers can develop as much as they like.

I wonder if Rosberg will have No.1 on his car next year, or keep 6?

He said he was undecided.

I think Rosberg winning wasn’t the worst thing for F1. The perception, rightly or wrongly, when a single driver wins everything for years on end is that things are boring. In the grand scheme of things, an occasional one-time champ is a good thing as it breaks it up a bit. As for whether Lewis was robbed because of mechanicals, that’s racing; you take best advantage of the cards you’re dealt. Whilst Massa today is a pretty smooth driver, it’s fairly certain that had Massa not been a bit wild in 2008 Hamilton wouldn’t have had the championship that year as Massa threw away points finishes in at least 4 races with crashes and spins.

I don’t know how you decide who deserves to win the F1 title; lots of the drivers are supremely talented but don’t have the machinery to show their class. Ocon and Wehrlein (particularly the latter) have great pedigree and “deserve” a better car and a shot at winning but that’s not how life works. Lewis’ lack of “sportsmanship” inside/outside the car is something that has been part of his entire career (I saw him in FRS practice in 2003 displaying this so it’s hardly new) but it’s part of who he is, Mercedes know this so none of this should have been a shock.

The driver who won didn’t cheat his way to the title (not saying Lewis did/would before anyone gets chippy) so you have to say he deserved it one way or another.

I watched the season finale yesterday, the first time I’ve watched a race in months. I can’t say that I’m disappointed to see Rosberg champion, he drove a measured race doing exactly what he needed to do. I did have to chuckle at his voice over the radio once he crossed the finish line, he sounded an awful lot like a Dalek.

We’re supposedly getting faster, wider and louder cars next year. Perhaps we’ll see McLaren Honda and Renault climbing up the grid too?

I’m a Lewis Hamilton fan and conversely I haven’t been all that impressed by Nico Rosberg’s antics in the car over the last few seasons trying to come to terms with being the lesser driver.

BUT

I keep asking myself what if Lewis’ tactics had worked yesterday and supposing Vettel and Verstappen had passed Rosberg? Worse still Verstappen could have taken out Rosberg trying to get past. I don’t think Lewis would have covered himself in glory in that situation and I would rather he lost the championship as he did rather than won it under dubious circumstances.

All in all I think Rosberg deserved the win even though I think Hamilton is the better driver. Luck plays as much part as skill when deciding who wins and who loses at this level.

I don’t really have a problem with Lewis’ antics during the race.

He’s a racer he’s trying to win. He didn’t do anything dangerous. Nico could have passed him if he thought he was driving slowly!

But Hamilton’s antics in the drivers room were a but much. FFS shake your team mates hand, it just looked petty and indignant. You might believe you are the better driver and that mechanicals robbed you of a world championship but there is still should be room for sportsmanship and courtesy, he’s raced with Nico since he was a teenager.

I wonder if Rosberg will have No.1 on his car next year, or keep 6?

Yes been reading this. IMO I think not taking the 1 is somewhat distrespectful to the sport so it’s my feeling he will take it. He won the Championship with 6 on the car, that’s the nod to his father.

Hamilton isn’t a team player. If you believe F1 is a team sport he should go. However his behavious isn’t new amd Mercedes signed him amd renewed his contract so they are as guilty as him.

As far as I know you are not allowed to have team orders in F1 these days, the drivers must “race”

I doubt Lewis would be in this position if he’d concentrated on f1 alone and gave the showbiz lifestyle a rest.

I doubt Lewis would be in this position if he’d concentrated on f1 alone and gave the showbiz lifestyle a rest.

I guess it’s one of those things that we’ll never know.

jambalaya – Member

Hamilton isn’t a team player. If you believe F1 is a team sport he should go. However his behavious isn’t new amd Mercedes signed him amd renewed his contract so they are as guilty as him.

As far as I know you are not allowed to have team orders in F1 these days, the drivers must “race”

Considering that Rosberg has taken out one or both Mercedes drivers with his behaviour over the last few seasons and had no sanction from Mercedes, I think punishing Hamilton in any way would show how they favour Rosberg. Especially Nikki Lauda who just makes me puke, he’s the shit-stirring stick that Mercedes need to get shot of.

As far as I know you are not allowed to have team orders in F1 these days, the drivers must “race”

Team orders are allowed now.

I doubt Lewis would be in this position if he’d concentrated on f1 alone and gave the showbiz lifestyle a rest.

Earlier in the season even Nico commented that he has never seen Lewis as focused as he was this year.

Re the ‘for the team’ thing – let’s see how Red Bull deal with this next year if they have a leading car. Max and Daniel are sure to provide some fireworks!

And how many multiple world champions worked solely for the good of the team? Even “Mr Averages” Prost got himself sacked from Ferrari! 😀

Lewis wasn’t focussed for 7 races in a row (although some of those were last season). Nico’s definitely had the better mental coach for the season as a whole. If Lewis raced those 7 races like he raced the last 4 or so, he’d have thrashed Nico.

Nico definitely favoured. Not to the extent of nobbling Lewis’ car, but he’s definitely favoured. German driver in a German team (even if UK based), winning the double has always been the goal since Schuey came back.

I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi’s), and probably beating Nico in an inferior car.

Would pop a tenner on Max beating Rosberg next year, but will wait until the winter testing for that.

Can’t really argue with that – it’s made it more interesting than it would have been if LH’s reliability had been just as good and he’d romped away with it.

But:

this – I think you’ll find that every instance of a coming together between the two Mercs was largely Britney’s fault – let’s include for example the incident in Spain, where if Britney had obeyed the rules about holding your line on a straight LH would be WDC. LH has also proved his ability to stay in front in a slower car time and again, so I doubt he was in any danger at all of failing to win.

I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi’s), and probably beating Nico in an inferior car.

It’d be good to see Hamilton racing against Nico without the team giving instruction.

‘Please team ask Lewis to move over and let me thtough’ (said one man to his title contender in the decider).

Cringe worthy stuff.

I can see Lewis racing in different colours in 2018 (need to double check when his contract is up, and Kimi’s)

Well his Mum was standing with the Ferrari team at the podium.

Are you thinking he would go to Ferrari then?

No doubt most drivers would love to go there for the prestige, but can’t imagine they’d ever have two #1 drivers…

Vettel and Hamilton as teammates would be interesting, although I can’t see either of them wanting that to happen. My money would be on Vettel over the course of a season.

I see what I consider to be gaping character flaws from Hamilton on a far too regular basis – and am frankly amazed that people are so willing to overlook them on what I assume is the strength of him being a Brit whom happens to be good at something.
For me its personality/character over Nationality every time.

Given equal machinery what do you think the F1 championship standing would look like?

(In other words rank the drivers on the grid)

Its a difficult one.

In my opinion there are 5 drivers on the grid with stand out talent:

Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Verstappen

Talented Journeymen who can win races in the right circumstances

Rosberg
Button
Bottas
Massa
Hulkenberg
Perez
Grosjean

New Talent who probably deserve a better drive
Sainz
Ocon
Wehrlien
Palmer
Magnussen
Nasr

Making up the numbers:
Ericsson
Guitierrez
Kyvyat
what his face in the second Manor

So no idea who would win in equal machinery. Its a silly game anyway as F1 is NOT about the cars being equal!

Senna had character flaws, Schumacher did, Vettel has, Kimi has – can’t think of a driver who hasn’t. And Mr Kvyat has them by the bucketload!

I think most people ignore them in Lewis as he’s unquestionably one of the best racers out there.

Personality/Character doesn’t win races.

I’m not a huge fan of his social life, but I admire his racing in the same way I admired Mansells – he just won’t give up.

We are missing a huge point here.F1 is just so dull at the moment, we need more racers like Max. Considering he drove from the back of the grid to 4th shows amazing talent in a so-so car.
Let’s hope RBR can give home something competitive next year.