EU Referendum – are you in or out?

“Threatening to leave is the behaviour of a three-year-old who says they will hold their breath if they do not get the toy they want,” he adds.

“There is going to come a time when my ability to support this government is going to run out,” he finishes.

I assume there was a point there? You seem to have missed one…..

Seemed to be a little bit of a contradiction. He’s threatening to leave if he doesn’t get what he wants.

Not really, he has supported the government for a long time while they throw tantrums and reject any method to get out of the situation they are in.

He is perfectly resonable saying that you can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results you are mad.

He’s threatening to leave if he doesn’t get what he wants.

No, he’s stating that he’ll have to. That’s not using it as leverage, that’s just showing his desperation at the situation.

** realises he’s made the mistake of commenting on the Brexit thread and backs away **

No problem sharing your views, do you think he should keep doing what is delivering nothing?

A reminder that large multinationals will easily work around all this rubbish, and many already have their exit plans well underway… small British companies on the other hand are just waiting and hoping…

Federation of Small Businesses can't be bothered to see the result of the vote.

It's the same old Brexit song from parliament, they say pic.twitter.com/sDP4XTaARv

— Andy Bruce (@BruceReuters) February 14, 2019

“An SNP amendment, which was also backed by the Liberal Democrats, calling for Britain’s departure from the EU on 29 March to be delayed by three months, was defeated by 93 votes to 315, after most Labour MPs abstained.” WT actual F?

I assume that Labour still feel the date can force something. Delay would be last option.
Defeat of government ammendment does sound like a lack of confidence from the erg at least, well until asked. I do get the feeling the tory remainers will break away and rebel first though.

WT actual F?

That’s the thing… lots of “stop no deal Brexit” MPs vote against any measure that could help prevent it. And Labour whipped its MPs to abstain.

There is also talk of labour MP’s resigning the party whip, I wonder if there is going to be a new pro Europe party forming from members of the current big 2, at least until we get out of this mess.

On 28th March Will Labour still be calling for that general election?

Still relevant but from last November

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2018/nov/17/stephen-collins-on-the-brexit-backstop-cartoon

Another massive vote against the government.

What, I wonder, will it take to make May admit it’s already gone nipples skyward? 😯

Parliament will vote against anything and everything … but for nothing. But then, that’s the mandate of the Referendum…

“What do we want?”
“Not this!”
“When do we want it?”
“Have those traitors not got on and done it for us yet?!?“

What do we reckon ?

Maybots programming has secretly been by Johnson. & The whole of Brexit has been an elaborate ruse to get him elected PM?

If you think the Tories are at war now, just wait till you see the story breaking at 8pm. #staytuned

— Kevin Schofield (@PolhomeEditor) February 14, 2019

No problem sharing your views, do you think he should keep doing what is delivering nothing?

I’m not sure what I’ve written that makes you think that that’s my opinion. Any opposition to this ridiculous situation is all good by me, but him stating that people who threaten to flounce are stupid, and then implying he’ll flounce himself is a bit silly.

You and Molgrips don’t seem to think that it is – I’m “backing away slowly” as that makes it a conversation that can only deteriorate into a Monty Python 5 minute argument.

EDIT: Awaits “No it isn’t” response…

This, of course, is all academic as we’re not going to be leaving on 29th March.

JP

You and Molgrips don’t seem to think that it is

Just voicing an opinion mate.

You and Molgrips don’t seem to think that it is

TBH I’m amazed that there haven’t already been wholesale flounces on both sides. The only thing I think stopping this is that MPs realise that the two main parties splitting will simply invite more chaos and deflect attention from the nutters who rightly should own this mess.

Both May and Corbyn are walking tightropes. They can’t get to the other side if their respective parties split. It will be interesting to hear in future when we look back just what they have been discussing behind closed doors in their meetings. Something tells me they will be cooperating with each other a lot more than seems the case as their interests are aligned.

** realises he’s made the mistake of commenting on the Brexit thread and backs away **

Too late now you’ve opened the box 🙂

Mrs S. says he’s leaving it pretty late.

What do we reckon ?

A bit of an anti-climax. 😀

Nichola Sturgeon was bang on today saying “Labour is acting as the midwife for the Tory’s Brexit”

Anne Soubry was also right to call the labour front bench out as cowards for sitting back and letting the Tory’s get on with it. AND SHE’S A TORY FFS!!

I expect the Tory’s to be ****s! It’s in their DNA. Its what they do. I do expect more of the Labour Party though. Much more!

Christ, have I been disappointed. And not in a ‘I’m not angry, I’m just disappointed’ way. I’m really ****ing angry with the stupid, lying, spineless beardy ****!

Seems Corbyn and his mob are more than happy to run the clock down with Theresa, indulge the ERG and crash out, totally ****ing the very people they’re meant to represent.

I can’t help wondering where we’d be if the Tory party had actually been faced with an actual opposition instead of this bunch of Brexiteer cowards?! They haven’t even got the bollocks to come out and say what they are.

Seems Corbyn and his mob are more than happy to run the clock down with Theresa, indulge the ERG and crash out, totally ****ing the very people they’re meant to represent.

Sigh. See my post above. Corbyn’s primary aim is to hold his party together. Yes, he’s anti-EU, no one is denying that. Is he pro-brexit? He’s declared he’s pro-brexit because he’s a democrat and respects the referendum result. Is he a pro-ERG hard brexiteer seeking no deal? He’s as much one of those as he is a racist or soviet spy.

He’s pursuing a soft(er) brexit because that holds the best chance of keeping his party together, preserving his electoral chances, and yes because it probably chimes with his only personal views. I know that doesn’t fit with your hope that brexit should be cancelled. It doesn’t with mine either, but he has undeniable reasons for taking this stance. This pro-ERG stuff is simply bonkers conspiracy theory stuff.

It’s just bollocks. Wake up and see what’s staring you in the face. People are so desperate to believe in the man.

the stupid, lying, spineless beardy ****!

Not sure spineless is the right word. I mean you disagree on the EU, fine, but spineless just because he’s not standing up for what *you* want…?

He’s declared he’s pro-brexit because he’s a democrat and respects the referendum result.

If he’s a democrat why isn’t he following his own party’s conference decisions?

Wake up FFS Daz!

Corbyn is pursuing a unicorn Brexit – in total opposition to the membership who’s interests he claims (now ridiculously) to represent) – because anyone with anything between their ears knows there’s only one end to that… a No Deal Brexit

It’s what he wants! It’s what he’s always wanted! He’s too much of a fraud to come out and say that though.

History will judge him as the lefts equivalent to Boris Johnson. A spineless opportunist who was just in it for himself

I mean you disagree on the EU, fine, but spineless just because he’s not standing up for what *you* want…?

So which is it?

Is he holding true to his long standing anti-Eu position, against the majority of his MPs and members? The man who put principle ahead of the wishes of his party?

Or the relectant Brexit enabler, trapped by the will of others into perusing a policy he doesn’t want?

Wake up FFS Daz!

Corbyn is pursuing a unicorn Brexit – in total opposition to the membership who’s interests he claims (now ridiculously) to represent)

along with a couple of hundred Labour MP’s who seem to be happy to follow on because they are not sure what to do next….

It’s what he wants! It’s what he’s always wanted!

I’m not denying that. It’s clear he’s anti-EU, that much is obvious. Is he a no-deal pro-ERG nutter? Sorry I just don’t believe that. What you describe as a unicorn brexit others might describe as the only brexit that holds any hope of bringing people back together and protecting working people. Yes it’s difficult, but the alternatives are no deal or no brexit. I’d love it to be the latter, but that’s also unicorn thinking isn’t it? A customs union and regulatory alignment seems to me the best of a bad bunch, and the only feasible option that the EU have indicated they will accept, and that’s exactly what Corbyn/Labour are pressing for.

Still pressing for an end to FoM though.

That’s the key to any “soft”
Brexit… the rest is just hot air.

He’s declared he’s pro-brexit because he’s a democrat and respects the referendum result

Why doesn’t he respect the election result and become a Tory? Would he if they won a majority at the next election?

Anne Soubry was also right to call the labour front bench out as cowards for sitting back and letting the Tory’s get on with it. AND SHE’S A TORY FFS!!

Your point caller? Beyond her deflecting from the failure of her party to stand up to their own extremists? Well done for falling for it though.

A spineless opportunist who was just in it for himself

You can disagree with him all you want but that’s just silly.

Lets once again examine labour’s options:

1. They campaign for a new referendum – They don’t have the support of MPs in leave voting constituencies even if enough tories would vote for it, and enough shadow cabinet members have declared they will resign if this happens. Result: A split in the party.

2. They do a deal with May. – The remainer wing of the party have already declared they won’t support this and some have said they will resign the whip. Result: Party split

3. They propose to cancel brexit. – See above about labour MPs in leave constituencies, and add the tagline ‘enemy of democracy/people’ on the next tory election billboard poster. Result: Losing the next election and probably splitting the party

4. Campaign the for the softest brexit possible by proposing customs union membership to ensure continuity of trade and industry, and regulatory alignment to protect jobs and workers rights. Result: They’ll take a hit from both sides, but probably hold the party together. They might take a hit at the next election from both remainer and leave voters but at least they’ll still be in the game.

Anyone got any other brigth ideas as to what they should do? I mean, this is an internet forum, I’m sure the assembled experience of MPs with decades of experience, trades unionists and their respectful advisors haven’t thought about it as much as we have and are just basing policy on a hunch, but is it at all possible they are doing the only thing open to them that averts certain doom?

What would a split party end up doing? If it got a sizeable chunk of seats, say 100, then no party would have a majority ever. The Tories would never be able to get Tory policies through, and Labour would never be able to get Labour policies through. And there is more to politics than Brexit, long term. So a split party would prevent Labour from being able to work towards social justice. So you can’t blame them for not wanting to give up half their support base.

Just to be clear – I’m not supporting Corbyn necessarily – just trying to explain how boxed in everyone is.

What would a split party end up doing? If it got a sizeable chunk of seats, say 100, then no party would have a majority ever.

Well it’s how we ended up with the Lib Dems, if only one splits then the other wins. If they both split then welcome to coalition government