EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    So IF the the result was to come out of the EU, how long is the process of leaving?
    Months, weeks, years, a decade?

    I think the whole point is that nobody really knows as its never happened before. I imagine it’ll be very complicated and very, very messy, with loads of unforeseen consequences.

    I’d imagine that the crowing of the Tory backbenches and UKIP would be very very very short-lived as the reality of the monumental ****-up sank in with everyone else

    lemonysam
    Member

    In, it would be a potentially massive problem for my industry if we left but more importantly for me I consider myself at least as much European as I do British and would like to see that identity represented politically.

    Premier Icon bowglie
    Subscriber

    In.

    Economic suicide to leave.

    IME, the most ardent of ‘out’ people I’ve spoken to tend to be either retired, or self employed sole trader/small business type people who are in service industry sector. People who work in business sectors that are regularly dealing with international clients realise we’ll be screwed outside the EU. I don’t think the general population is really aware of the number of major foreign companies who have manufacturing in the UK because we are in the EU – Nissan, Toyota, Honda, BMW etc. The Japanese companies manufacture here to get around EU quotas, so they’re not going to hang around if the UK leaves the EU.

    My OH is currently working on a project for a very large International company – they are putting together their detailed plan of action of how to pull their business out of the U.K. if the country leaves the EU. (Bit worrying, as they employ thousands of people). Her opinion is that if these guys are planning to go, all of their major clients will be doing the same thing.

    I guess I may be biased, as many years ago I used to work for a Govt Dept that doled out European funding for regeneration, infrastructure and environmental projects – again, because of the lack of positive press coverage, I think the general population are completely unaware of the amount of money the EU contributes to big projects. The sums of money we were dealing with were so massive, most people wouldn’t believe it (bilions – just mind bending when I think of it now, especially as none of us had any accounting experience!!)

    Something that did strike most of the staff where I worked was the difference in approach that Britain (under Thatcher/Major Govt) took with the EU. The British approach at the time seemed a bit blasΓ© and compromised, in contrast, the Dutch, Belgian, German and French picked the brightest people with solid backgrounds in their respective fields – we had a spot audit done by a couple of senior auditors from Brussels. My boss took them out for an evening meal, and the following morning, he announced to myself and my colleague – “boys, we’re f***ed” :)) The EU guys were very sharp, and didn’t pull any punches – they were definately not into creating loads of red tape, but were all about efficiency and knowing where every penny of their money was going. The EU auditors both had years of accountancy experience and they were frankly aghast when they found out that our office didn’t have an accounting qualification between the 8 of us. (It was shortly after that that I decided I needed a career change…..Rat…sinking ship yada yada πŸ™‚ )

    Junkyard
    Member

    givng the EU the opportunity they’ve wanted for centuries.

    An impressive achievement given when it was formed.

    chewkw
    Member

    Out! Out! Out!

    I am more than capable of deciding for meself.

    Yeap, you may bombard me with all your “facts” but I ain’t born yesterday nor am I a naive, ignorant living in utopia.

    People who keep going on about economic and political suicide you might as well say the world will collapse coz you truly have no confident in the British people. πŸ™„

    Obvious is obvious … I see you coming and I told you so. πŸ˜†

    dragon
    Member

    Undecided. But toying with ‘No’ on the basis it won’t result in us leaving, but a bet re-negotiated package. The UK is one of the biggest contributors to the EU and buys a lot from France and Germany etc. would they suddenly just let us walk away, I doubt it.

    On the argument that we get money back for regeneration money from the EU, how would that balance with the Β£11.3bn (2013), we put in?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    In,

    For one overriding reason. Whether people like it or not, thanks to modern communications, transport and the internet, the world is on a path to greater integration and diversity technologically, economically, socially, culturally, and yes, politically. It’s pretty much inevitable that the future will be one of less well defined nation states, and much less defined national identity. Are we really going to swim against the tide and think little old Britain can go it alone? For all it’s many evils, the EU is going to be one of the main vehicles for managing this future shift to a world where nation states become less important so leaving now at such a pivotal time in history would be idiotic.

    And yeah, what Binners said, look at who the main supporters of leaving are. That tells you all you need to know really.

    irc
    Member

    Out.

    The UK is big enough to look after itself. I remember the same predictions of disaster when the decision on joining the Euro was being taken.

    Ease of travel? I holiday regularly in the USA. Why would going to Europe be harder?

    As for those quoting EU funding for various things? That is our cash coming back after deductions for EU fraud and bureaucracy.

    bencooper
    Member

    In.

    Importing and exporting stuff, which I do a lot, would be a lot more hassle. I don’t trust the UK government to look after human rights. I’ve got friends from the rest of the EU who would probably have to leave – and I know Brits in other EU countries who might have to do the same. It’d be an insanely complicated procedure to unpick EU legislation from UK law.

    And, even if none of that were true, leaving would make Nigel Farrage happy.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    The UK is big enough to look after itself.

    No it’s not. This country is a net importer of just about everything.

    Ease of travel? I holiday regularly in the USA. Why would going to Europe be harder?

    You think the main issue is where you can go on holiday? πŸ˜†

    Junkyard
    Member

    Ease of travel? I holiday regularly in the USA. Why would going to Europe be harder?

    the point you tried to avoid is that it will be harder than now
    For example minor drug offences wont stop me going to europe nor do they cost any fee for a visa.

    As for those quoting EU funding for various things? That is our cash coming back after deductions for EU fraud and bureaucracy.

    Most fraud is committed by the countries funded not the EU – did you read the post up there about them having billions and no accountants employed *This sort of decision is what leads to the “fraud “- most if it is still just human error not actual fraud.

    * i am not suggesting that poster nor that organisation willfully committed fraud but they were not well equipped to avoid human error.

    Premier Icon Mark
    Subscriber

    referendum poll now on the front page πŸ™‚

    Importing and exporting stuff, which I do a lot, would be a lot more hassle.

    We manage to import/export to other parts of the world perfectly well.

    forzafkawi
    Member

    The Japanese companies manufacture here to get around EU quotas, so they’re not going to hang around if the UK leaves the EU.

    Standard scaremongering argument from the “in” camp. If that is the case why aren’t they already located somewhere like Poland or Latvia where labour costs would presumably be much lower?

    Junkyard
    Member

    Mark Alker wrote:

    referendum poll now on the front page

    Like the track I am undecided and yet dont have this option.

    referendum poll now on the front page

    STAY (there will be trouble)
    GO (it will be double)

    …political bias from STW towers! shocked! πŸ˜€

    MrSmith
    Member

    very much in.
    mainly looking at it from a business and commerce point of view and the ease of doing business. i would rather we became more like the rest of Europe than looking to our obnoxious cousin across the atlantic for inspiration.

    Junkyard
    Member

    If that is the case why aren’t they already located somewhere like Poland or Latvia where labour costs would presumably be much lower?

    well when they built them we offered the lower costs and those countries were not in the EU
    Relocation costs are too expensive to make this viable currently and we are in the EU.

    Lets rephrase

    Where will they go – cheaper EU countries with no tariffs or stay in the more expensive non EU country with tariffs- if we leave?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    You see all those swivel-eyed loons on the Tory backbenches and in UKIP? What do you think this country would look like once they’ve been ‘set free frrom the shakes of Brussels’

    What do you think they’re planning on doing?

    Do you think that once they no longer have any constraints that they’re going busily set about making everyones lives better? To create a fairer and more egalitarian society?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    The funniest thing about this whole debate is the people who bizarrely think we can go it alone. Have they had their eyes shut for the past 100 years? No country can go it alone. I don’t even know what ‘going it alone’ means any more. We live in such an interconnected and integrated world that this phrase now has no meaning.

    Simple solutions for simple people. God help us.

    mogrim
    Member

    In. Partly because I live in Spain so directly benefit from freedom of movement, but also because I believe membership of the EU will become ever more important as China (and others) become truly global powers.

    grum
    Member

    In

    I trust a bloated, distant, inefficient and somewhat unaccountable mega-government far more than I do our own.

    forzafkawi
    Member

    Where will they go – cheaper EU countries with no tariffs or stay in the more expensive non EU country with tariffs- if we leave?

    All this tariffs nonsense is a red herring as well. As previously stated the likes of BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW do a hell of a lot of trade with the UK. There would likely be some sort of trade agreement signed in due course that would overcome such barriers.

    digga
    Member

    dazh – Member

    The UK is big enough to look after itself.

    No it’s not. This country is a net importer of just about everything. [/quote] πŸ™„

    Which is why, despite what the Chicken Licken “in” campaigners say, none of those exportesr would want to jeopardise their trade with us, in or out.

    The modern global economy is complicated and where we really score is in services and, in particular, financial services. This makes export of actual goods slightly less important to us but does mean it is essential not to allow EU changes which would impact on those services.

    grum
    Member

    Also, most of the ‘out’ arguments seem to be based on Daily Mail articles about the EU making us let immigrants eat our swans. There are some genuine issues with the EU but they don’t seem to get mentioned often.

    Junkyard
    Member

    All this tariffs nonsense is a red herring as well

    I not you chose to not refute the counter to your point but decided to change the argument. πŸ˜•
    The EU is bigger than us we are leaving and giving them two fingers but they will make sure we manage to keep the trade aspect of the EU deal without paying anything in because of some car manufacturers. Yew that sounds so much more credible πŸ˜†

    I have no idea why people think this is even remotely a likely outcome

    Its like imagining you will get divorced but the ex will still do your washing and cook your tea.

    In the separation they will negotiate harder than we do and economically they are far more powerful than we are

    Its like a supplier thinking they can bully Tesco just after having really pissed them off and taken billions from the table.

    chewkw
    Member

    mogrim – Member

    In. Partly because I live in Spain so directly benefit from freedom of movement, but also because I believe membership of the EU will become ever more important as China (and others) become truly global powers.

    A girl I know went to stay in Spain for a year only to hate the place like plague after a year, because the people there treated her (British) like “money printing machine”.

    Can you live in Spain without money printing machine?

    😯

    Junkyard – lazarus
    of course they are bigger than us we are leaving and giving them two fingers but they will make sure we manage to keep the trade aspect of the EU dela without paying anything in

    I have no idea why people think this is even remotely a likely outcome

    Its like imagining you will get divorced but the ex will still do your washing and cook your tea.

    You mean prior to the EU they are not bigger than UK?

    Now that they gang up to form the EU ZM Club you bow? Beg?

    I have no idea why people cannot stand on their own feet.

    If you get a divorced you either find another partner or you get a maid.

    Obvious is obvious … πŸ™„

    dragon
    Member

    I don’t trust the UK government to look after human rights.

    Why not, on issues like H&S we are often ahead of our European ‘partners’.

    the ease of doing business

    Industries I’ve worked in have done business in the USA, Asia, S. America, Africa and the Middle East without major issues because we bring technical expertise, yet doing work in Europe has often been harder due to their favouring of local companies no matter what. So my query is what makes Europe so special?

    Also playing devils advocate maybe it’s about time we stopped it being so easy for Germany to do business here, and selling their illegal cars πŸ˜‰

    Mr Woppit
    Member

    Just watching Assange on the telly. It’s decided me.Conservative government is sinister, xenophobic, controlling and supports the monarchy and an anachronistic class system which is a ridiculous and embarrassing throwback to the middle ages. Europe is progressive and forward looking and for that reason, despite some of it still being wed to the idea of a free money tree and in need of reform, I’m in…

    mogrim
    Member

    A girl I know went to stay in Spain for a year only to hate the place like plague after a year, because the people there treated her (British) like “money printing machine”.

    Can you live in Spain without money printing machine?

    Of course you can, what a stupid question. I work for a Spanish bank, it’s a big red one that owns a chunk of the UK high street too. And my day-to-day is exactly the same as all the other employees here.

    Junkyard
    Member

    on issues like H&S

    You have confused human rights and safety at work.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    In. Better the Devil you know and all that. The fact is people who are paid to know about such things don’t know whether the UK will be better in or out, so what hope do I have of coming to a suitably informed decision? Referendum is just a not-very-subtle way of making the people decide so politicians don’t have to carry the burden of getting this one wrong. Let’s face it, whichever way this goes it will be used as a political argument between the main parties for years to come.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I don’t trust the UK government to look after human rights.

    Why not, on issues like H&S we are often ahead of our European ‘partners’.

    You seriously want this lot- a bunch of the richest, most entitled and elitest, backward-looking representatives of an almost medieval class structure – given a blank sheet of paper to effectively write a new constitution, and a bill of rights

    Erm… no thanks

    digga
    Member

    dragon – Member

    I don’t trust the UK government to look after human rights.

    Why not, on issues like H&S we are often ahead of our European ‘partners’.[/quote]The local clue’s usually in the police uniforms; the more tinsel and egg yolk on the shoulder and lapels, the more recently they’ve reinvented themselves from some sort of authoritarian or fascist regime.

    It’s not that long ago in a lot of places – you still wouldn’t mention the name “General Franco” in Spain.

    chewkw
    Member

    mogrim – Member

    A girl I know went to stay in Spain for a year only to hate the place like plague after a year, because the people there treated her (British) like “money printing machine”.

    Can you live in Spain without money printing machine?

    Of course you can, what a stupid question. I work for a Spanish bank, it’s a big red one that owns a chunk of the UK high street too. And my day-to-day is exactly the same as all the other employees here.[/quote]

    Interesting views … she really hated the people and the place but before she went she loved the place.

    She still hates the place unlike you. πŸ˜†

    Does that mean with job they welcome you?

    mogrim
    Member

    you still wouldn’t mention the name “General Franco” in Spain.

    People make jokes about him all the time, it’s been over 40 years…

    Borderline in, but only just.

    I’d be interested to see what happens to the migrant issue and how the EU react to it.

    To be honest if we did leave I could see a few others leaving too.

    Don’t know if its related to EU rules, but the news last night (or maybe previous night, its all a blur of coke and hookers at the moment) said we’re looking into Child Benefit changes and apparently if someone is over in the UK they can claim Child Benefit for their children even if they live in, say Poland, Greece etc. – surely that’s not right?

    chewkw
    Member

    mogrim – Member

    you still wouldn’t mention the name “General Franco” in Spain

    People make jokes about him all the time, it’s been over 40 years… [/quote]

    At least General Franco fought for what he believed …

    Imagine if he won then the joke will be for the other side.

    Winner(s) takes all. πŸ˜†

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