Home Forums Chat Forum EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Del
    Full Member

    Starmer was on 4 this morning maintaining that Labour’s position remains unchanged, and as agreed at conferenc, if they were unable to secure a GE they would be going for a second referendum.
    Well they’d better get a **** wriggle on then. 🙄

    edhornby
    Full Member

    If Labour want a referendum then the other MPs need to start up a whatsapp without magic granddad in and campaign, as conference instructed.

    PrinceJohn
    Full Member

    That list of splitters… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_have_crossed_the_floor#2014%E2%80%932019_Parliament

    it seems mostly in recent years it’s been people quitting UKIP or the tories.

    I want to see a front bench MP do it.

    Starmer was on 4 this morning maintaining that Labour’s position remains unchanged, and as agreed at conferenc, if they were unable to secure a GE they would be going for a second referendum.
    Well they’d better get a **** wriggle on then.

    Well given they’ve not managed to force a GE – surely at this point they should be saying something/anything about a 2nd ref

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Interesting graph from BoE on business investment…

    dannyh
    Free Member

    1,500 pages!

    To mark such a milestone, surely someone must have come up with an irrefutable reason why Brexit is a good idea?

    No?

    OK, I’ll ask again at 2,000

    dogbone
    Full Member

    I’ll ask again at 2,000

    May will still be kicking the can down the road.

    mickmcd
    Free Member

    To mark such a milestone, surely someone must have come up with an irrefutable reason why Brexit is a good idea

    The price of gammon?

    PrinceJohn
    Full Member

    They’ve covered up the graffiti already – even tho they wanted it, & had police permission…

    binners
    Full Member

    …and still the silence is deafening….

    If May does Extend article 50, then the Labour party has to immediately get shut of Magic Grandad and his cabal. He’s an electoral liability and his Pro-Brexit stance has surely led to him losing all the support he had thats kept the useless beardy clown where he is. He’s shown he doesn’t give a monkeys about young people and is just happily following his own 1970’s anti-EU agenda

    binners
    Full Member
    kerley
    Free Member

    If May does Extend article 50, then the Labour party has to immediately get shut of Magic Grandad and his cabal. He’s an electoral liability and his Pro-Brexit stance has surely led to him losing all the support he had thats kept the useless beardy clown where he is. He’s shown he doesn’t give a monkeys about young people and is just happily following his own 1970’s anti-EU agenda

    Do you ever tire of these rants. Yes we know you don’t like Corbyn, big fing deal.

    dannyh
    Free Member

    Look at that fat **** Francois.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/13/hardline-brexiters-threaten-to-vote-down-theresa-mays-motion

    If ever there was a justification for punching someone straight in the chops, there it is.

    spekkie
    Free Member

    I’d like to start a petition to have the often used phrase “The Will of The People”, with all it implies, changed to “The Will of Some People”.

    rone
    Full Member

    1,500 pages!

    To mark such a milestone, surely someone must have come up with an irrefutable reason why Brexit is a good idea?

    No?

    Yeah and I will ask again where’s the austerity thread of 1500 pages?

    Hmm the middle ground don’t seem so enraged about it.

    rone
    Full Member

    Do you ever tire of these rants. Yes we know you don’t like Corbyn, big fing deal.

    Don’t think he understands you can’t please some of the people all of the time. But as long as it’s Brexit then we should base the whole left case on that eh?

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    Yeah and I will ask again where’s the austerity thread of 1500 pages?

    Hmm the middle ground don’t seem so enraged about it.

    You think there will be less austerity measures if we brexit!?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Yeah and I will ask again where’s the austerity thread of 1500 pages?

    Hmm the middle ground don’t seem so enraged about it.

    As it covers the actions of multiple people and policies it’s been covered all over the place, some of which will be in the TM thread among others. I’m sure the budgets were debated very strongly in here along with the middle class bribes that went in the last one.

    AD
    Full Member

    My leave voting father-in-law explained to my son today that a ‘no deal’ is ok because that just means things carry on as they are now… i.e. we’ll be staying in the EU!

    He (my FIL not the 12 year old) genuinely has NO clue what no-deal actually means.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I think that’s a very common misconception, that no deal means no change.

    binners
    Full Member

    But Leave voters aren’t aren’t all a bunch of pig-ignorant thicko’s! It would be wrong to say that

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    You think there will be less austerity measures if we brexit!?

    But I’m sure that Theresa said that was over 🙁

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-austerity-end-over-speech-conservative-conference-tory-labour-a8566526.html

    But she does like whoppers.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    But Leave voters aren’t aren’t all a bunch of pig-ignorant thicko’s! It would be wrong to say that

    Some people aren’t interested, they get the Sun in the morning and go to work.

    I had a totally different view of the world when I read my grans daily mail an sun every lunch time as a kid 🙂

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I think Noel Gallagher was right when he said it should never have gone to a referendum, we elect people who should know better to make choices for us. Well the man in question, Dave, had made the right choice, which was overridden by the referendum, but the elected representatives could still have saved the people from themselves by stating that the referendum was to close to justify change, but chose not to.

    And now? I’m beginning to think things wouldn’t be any worse if Noel’s brother Liam were PM. Think about that, it really wouldn’t be any worse if Liam Gallagher were in charge.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    a friend of mine , leave voter , is a financial director in a small firm he owns with his family ; he has gone to uni and is fairly clued up on things .
    Yet he told me this week I did not need to worry about no deal as everything will stay the same ………
    I kindly explained to him the truth .
    I was amazed at his lack of knowledge .

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Some people aren’t interested, they get the Sun in the morning and go to work.

    Well if they’re not interested they should stay out of politics and not vote.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Well this is an interesting take on it. Of course it won’t be long before the usual suspects pipe up and scream lefty unicorn loving, magic grandad supporting fantasist, but he has a point. Now I’m not saying brexit will solve the problems he rightly highlights, but if this neoliberal, back to the 1900s nightmare is to be fixed, I’m not sure being in  the EU is very compatible with that.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I’d seen that, Daz. Where it falls down is that it both fails to recognise that the EU is doing a lot to protect its members from globalisation (but could do more) and that acting as a block of 500 million people is more effective in that than any of the individual sates ever would have been or would be now. Once Britian is out you’ll sse just how “liberal” it has to be to compete.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Where it falls down is that it both fails to recognise that the EU is doing a lot to protect its members from globalisation

    This may sound a bit ‘what have the romans every done for us’ but what exactly has it done? From where I’m standing the EU is a major pusher of globalisation and free markets. Granted it’s not as bad as the American plutocratic sink-or-swim version, but being slightly better than the US on the social justice scale is hardly something to celebrate. What I will say is that I trust the EU far more than tory politicians to protect the interests of normal people, but really there must be a better way. Or is this the best it gets?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    but really there must be a better way. Or is this the best it gets?

    In a balance between retaining industry and employment and rights the EU is doing very well, find me somewhere doing a lot better and we can see where you want to go.

    From working time to the environment, human rights and the way we have helped to bring those countries in need forward. When I was born 11 of the 28 were behind the iron curtain.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Well let’s see if we get shafted post-Brexit (should that occur) once we no longer belong to a huge trading bloc. In the US businesses are currently suggesting that in future trade deal negotiations the UK will need to relax some (well quite a lot) of its food and safety standards to facilitate US imports.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Well let’s see if we get shafted post-Brexit

    Who do you mean by ‘we’? The people at the mercy of zero hours contracts, real terms shrinking wages and the sharp end of austerity have already been shafted. Funny that they seem to be the same people who have voted for brexit?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Add in the people working for Ford, JLR, Nissan, the workers who supported the EMA, the people who’s jobs rely on imported materials among thousands of others.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    We can certainly look forward to more rough sleepers and tents set up ad-hock in town centers.
    But at least we will be free.

    Free from what exactly, I don’t know. From human rights?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    This may sound a bit ‘what have the romans every done for us’ but what exactly has it done? From where I’m standing the EU is a major pusher of globalisation and free markets.

    A few points as per my understanding:

    Making environmental legislation is hard, because it costs money usually, and when companies are forced to spend money on cleaning themselves up, they are less profitable which makes them less competitive. By binding countries together economically and reducing trade barriers between them, the EU ensures that members trade a lot with each other; then it ensures that they all follow the same environmental legislation. So they can’t undercut each other, and they are less likely to take their business elsewhere.

    Take the example of Delphi, the fuel injector manufacturer mentioned way early in the thread. They can specialise in certain aspects of manufacturing, and partner with other specialists in other countries at little additional cost, and with less exposure to political changes such as trade wars. So a company in a particular company say, the heat-treatment place in Germany, has a very large market and can introduce economies of scale to do their stuff cheaper; likewise the injector manufacturer in the UK. This is why the US is such a powerful economy – companies are all bigger because the market is bigger. This is what’s been happening in the EU. Therefore our stuff is cheaper for us to buy, and cheaper (and hence more competitive) for overseas customers. This boosts our manufacturing sector and improves quality of life for our citizens.

    These in theory allow the EU to perform better in the current global economic set-up, however that set-up isn’t necessarily the best. This sort of thing works well enough amongst equals, but where there’s inequality free trade can make things much worse.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Free from what exactly, I don’t know. From human rights?

    I came to the conclusion a while back that the patronising stereotype of racist idiots obsessed with Britain’s greatness are a small minority of those who voted leave. To answer your question I think most of them wanted to be free from the endless drudgery and stress of trying to eke out a living within a system that has no interest in them.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Who do you mean by ‘we’?

    The country as a whole.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/13/kicking-up-dust-little-sign-of-progress-in-uk-eu-talks?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR192SQAtFTJP_f3lPP5SzoUVonI9U3Oig3tfYEFe6zEHHeH-bxFobglYNI

    It’s still possible she is still playing for remain. Unlikely, but everything does fit still. Plan is to run down the clock increase the chaos so she can justify pulling the plug at the last minute.

    Remainer pipe-dream, but would be a proper bombshell wouldn’t it?

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    60000

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