Diane Abbott – I'm surprised it has taken a year

ooh yeh, just think, there could be some 995ers out there just waiting to be popped

I bet one of the IT peeps could rig a search for number of posts

TandemJeremy – Member
wrecker – I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

I think this is probably spot on, but the point is it still doesn’t alter the fact that because of the heightened leftish propagated awareness of various ‘isms’ she, being a black politician (there I go labelling her when I seriously don’t view her as anything other than a politician)has been hoisted by her own petard so to speak.

So my point? My point is when you have either a black or a white kid in a nursery and they innocently chirp up with a remark about the colour of the other childs skin, instead of recoiling in horror and chastising the kid for mention it, we treat it the same as if it were a comment about what the other kid might be wearing.

We just need to be a bit more grown up generally and realise the planet we’re on is getting smaller and we are all integrating quite nicely at personal levels, only those who would govern and wish to do so by division act the way she describes and it is not a skin colour issue, division has myriad opportunities.

From the mash;

Bill McKay, who has been talking shit since he was nine, insisted: “Out of context out of context out of context. Tory scum.”

OMG 😯

TJ = Bill McKay!

no, tj it’s not the point abbot was making, nor is it the point elf’s making.

two points in your quote are telling. as with abbot, you don;t refer to ‘some’ bulgarian nurses, ‘a few’ bulgarian nurses but just plain old articleless bulgarian nurses. and abbot’s point about the finns was,specifcally, that they shouldn’t be employed. really, you’re in agreement with that?

in which case you should be having a closer look at lothian’s equality policies. further you note that this is a person who you state ‘we’ looked after, in other words accepting this was a team approach, tho reserving the right to blame a minority amongst you for any shortfall in care. because, as we all know for sure, edinburgh has not, nor is it possible that they could have, any form of prejudice except among the immigrant types.

as a corollary to such a facile example – a few years back i was working in the western when we got some albanian guy in. my whitey co-workers informed me that no-one could communicate with him, mainly it turned out, because no-one had thought to speak anything except english to him. step up the multilingual mr swiss. problem solved.

one of the signal characteristics of my career has been the diversity of the people i’ve got to work with. i have, and continue to believe (unlike yourself and diane abbot) that this is a strength rather than a weakness and, allowing for a few human foibles, the capacity for compassion across the caring professions is universal and not subject to any racial classification. further, a commitment to the resource that this variety provides nto only allows for better care but exposes and allows us to deal with the type of casual prejudice you’re espousing.

anyway, it’s been emotional, but i’m off to wash my bike.

final scores

swiss01 – sublimely correct

tj – daily mail wrong

Swiss – it is exactly that point. Its just you don’t understand it.

For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s

For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s

Does that mean it’s OK if you accidentally come out with casual racism?

For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s

I think it’s a shame you stopped. Maybe it’s time to rethink that particular New Years resolution.

Nobody’s perfect.

I’d attach more credit/attention to 40 years of campaigning rather than a few mis-judged comments.

Actions speaking louder than words etc.

Does that mean it’s OK if you accidentally come out with casual racism?

It’s got to be worth one of these, at least.

Actions speaking louder than words etc.

Indeed, please take this advice up!!!!!

Nobody’s perfect.

I’d attach more credit/attention to 40 years of campaigning rather than a few mis-judged comments.

Actions speaking louder than words etc.

So would I, right up to the point where one (or more) of that person’s comments turned in to exactly the sort of thing they had been campaigning against. Then, I would question their opinion very thoroughly in the light of that hypocrisy.

“What a Stupid Woman !!”

The Sky TV footage is brilliant of her doing a runner from the reporter after getting a convenient phone call.

For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s

And TJ reaches stratospheric levels of sanctimony. What a champ.

classic personal insults in lieu of rational argument.

the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen. Swiss in his eagerness to score points glosses over the fact this is a real issue and accuses me of racism instead.

Has anybody considered the possibility that Abbott may just be into Minor Threat?

So would I, right up to the point where one (or more) of that person’s comments turned in to exactly the sort of thing they had been campaigning against. Then, I would question their opinion very thoroughly in the light of that hypocrisy.

Maybe.

People are excellent at focussing on the one mistake you make rather than the hundreds of things you’ve been doing well.

And in keeping with the spirit of modern society, it’s also vitally important to take every opportunity to pick on peoples failings and use these against them, especially if they’re people with a public profile or influence.

Oh how we revel in laying into people when it transpires they’re fallible … of course, we never make any errors of judgement or anything, oh no, never, we’re all perfection personified 🙄

the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen

TJ – are you telling us now that its not racist to mention something that is demonstrably true?

Got another quote from you TJ – interesting one:

I find racism unacceptable and say so. Both the overt and the insidious type ( which is the one folk find hard to see)

Does Diane Abbot’s comment constitute insidious racism TJ?

People are excellent at focussing on the one mistake you make rather than the hundreds of things you’ve been doing well.

Something Ms Abbott would never do herself presumably?

Labour Finally Comment

“We disagree with Diane’s tweet. It is wrong to make sweeping generalisations about any race, creed, or culture. The Labour Party has always campaigned against such behaviour – and so has Diane Abbott.”

Time for an apology, or it won’t be the last comment they have to make about their Shadow Health Minister…

Labour Finally Comment

😆

joao3v16, very valid points and yes, we are all far from perfect. However, when someone sets themselves up on a pedestal as a campaigner on such issues, they need to be even more acutely aware of the potential of falling from that pedestal by becoming the very thing they campaign against.

Nobody’s perfect.

I’d attach more credit/attention to 40 years of campaigning rather than a few mis-judged comments.

Actions speaking louder than words etc.

Abbott has indeed had a good and at times very distinguished career. And certainly deserves credit for her work to fight for better opportunities for ethnic minorities and underprivileged people in her constituency. She has actually bin a pretty good MP.

BUT

She has also acted in a very selfish and self-serving manner, made the right noises politically and bin proven to be a massive hypocrite. And there are many others who’ve had more distinguished careers than her, but who have not sought media attention and ‘celebrity’ in the way she has. You’ve got to question her motives tbh.

If anyone’s guilty of ‘divide and conquer’, it’s her. She’s the one presenting herself as a ‘West Indian’ (rather than ‘British’) person, and claiming that people of other cultures and ethnicities don’t understand Black people. She’s the one setting apart Black people, communities and culture from that of ‘British’ culture, as though the two are mutually exclusive. Full of contradictions.

She picks and choses ideologies to suit her own agenda. And acts all hurt when it backfires on her.

‘Blonde-haired blue-eyed’; indeed; is she not aware that many Finns are in fact from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds? As are British people?

In the same way that not all West Indians are black?

joao3v16, very valid points and yes, we are all far from perfect. However, when someone sets themselves up on a pedestal as a campaigner on such issues, they need to be even more acutely aware of the potential of falling from that pedestal by becoming the very thing they campaign against

Yep. She’s been a bit of a twit, but I don’t believe she’s a racist.

Yep. She’s been a bit of a twit, but I don’t believe she’s a racist.

If being a twit means that she made a racist comment, I agree. There’s the problem.

She’s been a bit of a twit, but I don’t believe she’s a racist.

The point was that her statement was racist, not that she is. we all say things that are poorly worded or plain wrong but to say that a certain statement is not racist because of some other factors not included in the context of the statement is wrong.

the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen. Swiss in his eagerness to score points glosses over the fact this is a real issue and accuses me of racism instead.

Would a west indian, pakistani etc etc nurse be any better equipped to deal with such issues?
Would it be acceptable for someone to say as much?
The answers to both are no, of course.

“TandemJeremy – Member
Anyone got any comment on this?

Nursing.

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.”

Can you explain in what way they treated him awfully? Then i may have a comment .
I was involved with a mental health group that challenged White/Western bias in mental health work and clearly in that area cultural sensitivity and understanding is essential.

In other areas cultural sensitivity can become a tolerance of and promotion of a different prejudice.

Crankboy – a total lack of cultural sensitivity and understanding He was dyspahgic after a stroke. He did not like personal care being done by the female nurses ( and we had men working there) the bulgarian nurses would go in and restrain him to give him the care not only not realising why he was resisting but when told that was why refusing to aknowledge he had the right to have male care staff.

teh line manager refused to take the situation seriously. Non NHS and I left there shortly afterwards.

Its an example of staff from a background where they did not understand the culture of the people they were looking after and thus giving substandard care.

Can we all just take a moment to see how Twitter is used properly by a politician. In response to Lord Glasman’s attack on Wet Ed in the Guardian this morning:

Ladies and gentlemen, please bow your heads, and pray silence for the Political Big Hitter, John Prescott:

“Glasman. You know sod all about politics, economic policy, Labour or solidarity. Bugger off and go ‘organise’ some communities!”

now THAT is a tweet! Watch and learn Dianne. Watch and learn

😆

the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen. Swiss in his eagerness to score points glosses over the fact this is a real issue and accuses me of racism instead.

Would a west indian, pakistani etc etc nurse be any better equipped to deal with such issues?
Would it be acceptable for someone to say as much?
The answers to both are no, of course.

“Finnish” is not a race. Neither is “Pakistani”. Neither is “Bulgarian”
In the same way that “British” is not a race.

The nursing example is a cultural issue, not a race issue.

There is a wonderful irony that in a country whose Establishment is (apparently) infected with institutionalised racism and whose colonial history is such a source of eternal shame that we are having discussions about Bulgarian nurses tending for Asian Muslims in a State-funded (I assume) institution.

Time for a run – it might become clear after all that.

I wonder if Wallace really did call DA just as she was being interviewed by SKY?

Swiss – it is exactly that point. Its just you don’t understand it.

For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s

TJ

CARPing on since the 1970s

(sorry, couldn’t resist)

Binners – nice quote and to think we also complain that too many of our politicians are well educated. I really do need a run.

The nursing example is a cultural issue, not a race issue.

Abbott referred to ‘blonde hair and blue eyes’.

Those are racial characteristics.

So it is a race issue.

i’m off to wash my bike.

Has it come to this?

Have things got that bad?

😥

certinly a race issue. racist or a valid point made badly is the key thing

“Finnish” is not a race. Neither is “Pakistani”. Neither is “Bulgarian”
In the same way that “British” is not a race.

I’ve not stated that they are. It doesn’t mean that its acceptable to grossly generalise groups according to nationality.
Muslim isn’t a race either, but saying something negative about muslims as a group is inappropriate and wrong.

Accusing someone of racism is pretty easy. It is much tougher to say for certain whether someone is, or if one of their actions/statements is racist due to the whole intended-interpreted issue (a much larger debate which could get into structuralist vs post-structuralist linguistics).

It is much easier to be certain if someone, or someone’s statements are stupid. Abbott’s statement is clearly stupid because a) it was done on twitter where context is hard to set/see, b) she creates an us and them dichotomy with ‘white people’ and ‘we’ which reinforces the things she is objecting against. and c) she should have said “some white people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game”.