Diane Abbott – I'm surprised it has taken a year

Next thing TJ and Elfin will be telling us that its racist to say there’s a problem with gun crime in the black community

Erm, let’s have a look shall we….

Oh, I have not. How disappointed you must be.

Only an ignorant fool would think such a thing of me.

I have no problem with you posing intelligent counters to any argument I may have, but don’t go round claiming I’d say certain things.

Elf – I diasgee with you

It is your basic, inalienable Human Right to be wrong, and one which I will gladly defend on your behalf.

You don’t live in east London TJ.

Shall I start commenting on Scottish stuffs, perhaps?

glitchybump

cos she is stupid and naive she is unable to make her point without giving people the ammunition to accuse her of racismbeing racist

Elfin has nailed it.

Remeber the debacle of her comments regarding Finnish nurses? That somehow, ‘blue eyed blonde-haired’ nurses were incapable of looking after patients in Hackney?

Tell me how that is not racist?
Absolutely. Try suggesting that a Jamaican nurse (as her mum was) couldn’t look after white patients and see where that gets you.
TJ do you seriously, honestly believe that this is not a racist comment?

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race. It’s absolutely shocking. Load the shotguns lads. We’re going over the top.

*is shocked*
*faints*

I’ll try one last time – then assume that TJ is just on normal behaviour and ignoring the point and being deliberately obtuse because he’s been caught with his pants round his ankles (again)

the political right on here are usually attempting to deny racism / defend their own from accusations

Are you suggesting that such accusations are false? If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race. It’s absolutely shocking. Load the shotguns lads. We’re going over the top.

Unfortunately, as with so many of your thread distillations dd, that’s not actually true.

wrecker – I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

It’s ok!

She’s been on the telly and apologised for causign offence.

still, don’t let that ruin a good thread.

due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist

I suspect this chap had the same problem;

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race

I think you’ll find that most of my violent middle class fantasies are directed against TJ. 😉

[Only joking TJ but hell, one stupid comment deserves another]

Are you suggesting that such accusations are false?

No

If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.

simply does not follow

TandemJeremy – Member
wrecker – I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

Message read and understood. Please do not repeat 1000x. Even if provoked!!

i also think soulwood’s comment is worthy of further discussion.

however as i’m having a go at tj and rather enjoying it, i think i’ll continue. so,aside from your position which appears to be that if one expresses nakedly racist opinions it’s excusable on the grounds of naivety and ‘stupidity’ (i’ll parenthesise that last because of its obviously perjorative nature). here was me thinking it was just ignorant racism..

however i’m aghast that you should find anything defensible in abbott’s position on finnish nurses. aside from that fact she had to apologise on the grounds it was such utter nonsense, a fact i wrote to her about at the time (at some length!) you’re willing to be an apologist for this on the grounds above.

as i recall you work in the nhs in that embra. i presume you have no nurses from different countries who may well ‘have never met a scottish person before’ and therefore, under abbot’s criteria, shouldn’t be working here. do you share the same opinion about doctors? why, only this week, i started working with a romanian lassie who was straight off the plane. what would your response be be, given your ‘naive’ defense of abbot?

wait, it feels curiously familiar – would it be ‘send them home’?

(sorry, that last was too obvious to resist!)

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

What, blonde-eyed blue-haired Finnish nurses being incapable of looking after Black patients?

I believe the intent was not racist

came out in such a way as to appear racist

Stop avoiding the question – its not about the intent, or how it appeared – was the statement, itself, racist?

Elfin is spot on. Again.

I also agree with this:

She is as thick as two short planks.

The above sentiment applies to far too many politicians unfortunately.

When questioned about her son’s schooling she responded by saying that “West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.”
“So”, Neil asked, “black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?”
Abbott then clamed up, saying that she had said all she was going to say. Then Neil, obviously irritated, went for the jugular;
“Supposing Michael said white mums will go to the wall for their children. Why did you say that? Isn’t it a racist remark? If West Indian mums are as wonderful as you say, why are there so many dysfunctional West Indian families in this country? And why do so many young West Indian men end up in a life of crime and gangs? You didn’t want your son to go to a school full of kids who have been brought up by West Indian mums.”

wrecker – I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

Thanks for the reply TJ, but I fail to see how the intent was anything other than casual, ingrained racism.
I would like to see her sacked.

West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children

Is she west indian then, or born in Paddington?

“If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.”
simply does not follow

It does not follow that if accusations you mention are not false that they are then true? TJ logic.

Nursing.

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.

there is a point to what she said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it

Wry grin at Wikipedia.

Aracer – you said I had said tories are racist. I did not. that quote does not say that.

there is a point to what she said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it

So defenders of casual racism usually say.

Agreed aracer – however I – as explained above- have actually seen the point she was making in action. On more than one occasion.

you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.

So by mentioning accusations of racism against them – which you have now confirmed you believe were true – what exactly were you saying?

I meant exactly what I said.

which you have now confirmed you believe were true

Stop making things up that I have never said – where have I said that?

Ah thanks for pointing that out aracer. I put it there especially as I saw you were active on the thread and wouldn’t be able resist. You’re lovely and reliable like that.

So TJ what you’re saying is that the behaviour of a few people who’ve not had the benefit of being raised in a multicultural society who also happen to be white reinforces Diane Abbott’s assertion that as a general rule most white people have a prediliction to be ignorant colonialists?

Or did I miss some subtlety there?

[edit] Actually, please don’t reply to this. Ms Abbott has apologised for her remarks which is the best outcome anyone could hope for. Time to close the thread.

Stop making things up that I have never said – where have I said that?

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

“Are you suggesting that such accusations are false?”
No

i thank you for that quote elf. i am avoiding the londonishness in favour of the scotch as my association with your land is not the east but the ‘sarf’ as i believe you say it. my oh’s mum is just coming back from (wouldn’t you just believe the coincidence) scandinavia where she’s been in hospital to have more of the same in that londontown. curiously she’s more worried about service provision rather than if she can continue her excellent (and multilingual) care from those lovely swedish people.

however, as tj’s wrongness has, i believe, been illustrated beyond any useful furhter discussion and also because we’ve now had four pages of ‘is it racism’ (as usual?) i’d like to attend to soulwood’s comment and that of abbot’s original interlocutor.

does the notion of a ‘black community’ have any real meaning any more beyond serving a range of vested (and sometimes opposing) interests? and does the constant sidelining of such a discussion,as above, into a mutual recriminative process of accustaion and counter-accusation act as a process of obfuscation that obscures the real social and economic problems of a large group of society who share far more in terms of problems than differ just because they’re from a different ethnnic background?

Aracer – I did not make any claim as to the validity of the accusations at all. so I am neither suggesting the accusations are false or true

Anyone got any comment on this?

Nursing.

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.

there is a point to what she (abbott) said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.

So, that’s the fault of the Bulgarian nurses, that they weren’t adequately supervised and that such cultural differences weren’t taken into consideration, then? I’m sure that with proper supervision, any problems could have dealt with effectively. My mum worked as a nurse in the 50s and 60s, and had to deal with patients from backgrounds she had absolutely no knowledge of. She also worked alongside nurses from the West Indies and Africa, so had to learn to understand them too. They all coped. The NHS did not collapse.

Abbott’s a racist cah. Elfin hath spoken in the third person again.

THREAD CLOSED

To me, she does seem to be racist. You could argue on the basis of that tweet that she was referring to ‘white authority figures’ which would still be a bit contentious, but more understandable. But previous comments, especially the nurses one, does seem to betray a bit of a mindset. She seems to be a bit, “I’m not racist, but…”

Corect elf – and thats the point abbott was making – just badly

thats the point abbott was making – just badly with casual racism

can anyone help me allocate sparse resources, plase (remember, we’re all in this together) and predict whether this one’ll get to 1000 before the guns one gets to 2000

I’m going for the big-money post this time round but I can’t watch both

can anyone help me allocate sparse resources, plase (remember, we’re all in this together) and predict whether this one’ll get to 1000 before the guns one gets to 2000

I was just wondering how to resurrect my atheism one (which is still comfortably ahead of the guns at the moment)

do these guys read stw or what?

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/race-named-as-today%27s-thing-to-talk-shit-about-201201054732/%5B/url%5D

TJ

you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.

TJ

The tory party clearly has racist elements in it

threads passim

HOWZAT!