Cyclist knocked off his bike and abused

just my honest opinion from looking at the vid..

that doesn’t make the assault right in my eyes, but he was riding a bit flipping squiffy to say the least

that’s just a fact.. and doesn’t make me a troll

I N R A T S but that is UN****INGBELIEVABLE!

but he was riding a bit flipping squiffy to say the least

I interpreted that more as pulling out a bit to take the lane when there were traffic islands to make sure no cars tried to pass at an unsafe point.

I think there’s also a recommendation in a little book of the road somwhere about leaving cylists plenty of room in case they have to swerve or are unsteady, so drunk or not, you’re still not supposed to drive into them.

Could also have been mighy windy for all we know, I’ve been blown about a surprising amount before, enough to give me the willies once or twice when I’ve been blown towards a passing car.

I’m more surprised disappointed enraged that their first reaction is not to check that the poor vulnerable squishy human they’ve just hit is OK, but to hurl abuse instead, even if he’d been standing at the side of the road waiting to throw himself in front of a car surely the absolute first thing you do is make sure they are ok?

**** hell! 😯

Notts police should be **** ashamed of themselves. Pathetic.

Helmetcam quick panning from straight on to looking over right shoulder can give the false impression of erratic behavior.

Notts police should be **** ashamed of themselves. Pathetic.

To be fair the article says the couple were charged/cautioned by the police, so they didn’t let them off entirely even if the punishments were rather desultory:

“..the driver was ordered to attend an awareness course and the female passenger who abused the cyclist was cautioned.”

Personally I think it should have been a Careless Driving charge and points on his license as a minimum. Funeral or not.

>>Personally I’d have been in the primary all the the way down that street. Too many traffic islands to sit in >>the secondary.

Likewise. This looks to me like 100% the fault of an impatient motorist who should have got at least points and careless driving for that dangerous move. The cyclist was clearly looking behind (and supposedly signalling) yet he tried to push past anyway. That points towards it being deliberate. Pathetic, inadequate, response from Police

However, his impatience, and the danger it caused to the cyclist, were massively exacerbated by the road design.

The width of that road and pavements is sufficient for protected, segregated cycle paths. Instead we have wide pavements (with no-one using them – not a single pedestrian in that video) and the road artificially narrowed with traffic islands and white paint. There is more than enough space to create a safe space for cyclists there without inconveniencing motorists.

Add to that the cars parked on the pavement on the side road at the start, and the pick up parked across pavement/double yellow later. On just a short video. I don’t think the cyclists are the problem.

That points towards it being deliberate.

That and the fact the “lady” is shouting and the driver is sounding the horn for several seconds before they “accidentally” run into the cyclist who has been in plain view of them the entire time.

Completely agree with you on the facilities by the way – plenty of room for something much better there, but that’s the UK for you.

(Help make it better: Write to your MP and tell them to attend the Get Britain Cycling debate and push for all the recommendations to be accepted)

Personally I think it should have been a Careless Driving charge and points on his license as a minimum. Funeral or not.

Is it not worse as they actually saw them and then deliberately hit them
The horn shows they knew they were there and basically ran into them

I am not au fait enough with ranks of driving offences but surely hitting someone, you have seen, from behind who has right way whilst attempting an “overtake” on someone trying to turn right is pretty high up the scale of bad driving

TBH If they wont prosecute that they wont prosecute anything

Do any of us really think the outcome will be the same if I do this to a copper on their bike?

Really Piss poor decision

PS I salute your indefatigability on these threads

Meanwhile a teenager on a bike causes a bus to do an emergency stop, one of the passengers gets injured and the teenager gets charged with Dangerous Cycling and Involuntary GBH.
http://road.cc/content/news/89871-updated-police-arrest-cyclist-after-bus-drivers-emergency-stop-leaves-passenger

So why can’t this driver be charged with GBH?

GrahamS – Member

So why can’t this driver be charged with GBH?

No proof of intent, no serious injuries.

Junkyard – lazarus

I am not au fait enough with ranks of driving offences but surely hitting someone, you have seen, from behind who has right way whilst attempting an “overtake” on someone trying to turn right is pretty high up the scale of bad driving

Worst thing is (and I may be wrong) that the driver will not have a conviction on record, so the only punishment they have received is that if they run someone else over within a year they won’t be able to take another course.

Some people may think this is pretty harsh or unfair, but evidence proves he was entirely at fault and caused the incident. I will openly admit it is quite a freak accident, but one that could have been avoided had he been paying attention and riding correctly within the law. After all, if a car driver caused a serious accident by pulling out in front of someone, they too would be charged by the police

If only this was true and we got the same levels of protection as bus passengers. A car driver can see the cyclist and then run them over get out and threaten assault and just be told they are a very naughty boy 😕

Those of you who are unhappy with the response from Nottinghamshire police should raise your concerns by writing to them at the address below detailing your reasons;

Professional Standards Directorate
Police Headquarters
Sherwood Lodge
Arnold
Nottingham
NG5 8PP

or by e-mail at psd@nottinghamshire.pnn.police.uk

No proof of intent, no serious injuries.

Surely the teenager didn’t have intent either?
He didn’t intend to get hit by a bus or harm any passengers. He was just stupid/reckless/careless.

I guess the scale of injury is different in this case, but I’d say that’s more through luck than anything else.

Balance of probabilities, the law is an ass.

ok ive meailed notts police, the IPCC and the CPS

Hello

I would like to ask a question

as the email in the linked article from notts police to the victim states that the highway code (as regards to prosecuting in this case) is effectively suspended for a passing funeral cortege.

I would like to know how you determine whether the cortege has passed, ie whats the average number of cars in a cortege.

I only ask as a concerned cyclist and wouldnt want to be run over by a driver in a funeral cortege who now realises that he has reduced culpability when hitting a cyclist.

The charging guidelines for Dangerous Driving (with a mandatory 12 month ban) include incidents where the driver has not given due regard to vulnerable road users such as cyclists and “overtaking that could not have been completed safely”.

So it’s a pretty clear case of dangerous driving, but the CPS don’t follow their own guidelines.

The bus vs cyclist case is interesting. Could it set a precedent? Driver hits me when I’m cycling, he now gets charged with assault?

Of course not, we’re cyclists, we don’t matter, but it would be nice if it happened.

bails – Member

So it’s a pretty clear case of dangerous driving

No it isn’t.
The burden of proof for DD is very high and it is an incredibly hard charge to stick.

Balance of probabilities, the law is an ass.

We agree on something at last sbob 😀

The bus vs cyclist case is interesting. Could it set a precedent? Driver hits me when I’m cycling, he now gets charged with assault?

Of course not, we’re cyclists, we don’t matter, but it would be nice if it happened.

Yeah that’s the thing – I don’t really object to the charges in that Bus vs Cyclist case. Assuming the reporting of the circumstances is correct then they seem a little harsh but reasonable.

But they are only “fair” if we can expect drivers to face the same kind of charges and quite obviously they don’t – even when caught on video and clearly in the wrong.

BTW did anyone catch the quite excellent pro-cycling pieces on BBC News and Newsnight the other night?

Newsnight piece (watch from 22:28) :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/tv/episode/b038bpyg

BBC article: “Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23587916

Great to see this stuff hitting mainstream media.

I have to quote the ABD guy in full as his frankly deranged world view deserves as much public scrutiny as possible:

“I think Boris’ plans for spending more on cycling are, in essence, bonkers. Cycling is one of the most dangerous occupations you can undertake. You should realise that. And that’s why, if you’ve got any sense, you get off your bike and actually use public transport or buy a car.

They are becoming a very pushy minority group. You don’t get that from motorists who are much better behaved generally.”

– Roger Lawson, Alliance of British Drivers, speaking to Newsnight on 7th August 2013[/url] (31 mins in)

😯

Just reread this thread and viewed the vid again. My flabber remains gasted, not by the driver (we all know there are plenty of psychopathic killers piloting cars round the roads), but by the police response. That there is somehow mitigation because they were on their way to a funeral.

Sorry, but that can only wash (very slightly, if at all) if there was some contriteness to the driver’s behaviour in the run up and after. If the response had been ‘OMG. I’m so sorry, I’m following that hearse to my Grandad’s funeral and wasn’t paying proper attention, are you OK, let me help you up’ etc. then I could see why the police might take a more lenient position. But sorry – the horn beeping first and the behaviour after removes any mitigation in my mind.

Deliberate, premeditated assault with a deadly weapon.

You don’t get that from motorists who are much better behaved generally.

AAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA! Brilliant! Ow, god I think I’ve pulled something laughing too hard.

What a ****.

Good work Kimbers, keep on poking them. 🙂

Deliberate, premeditated assault with a deadly weapon.

Yup. I’m getting the urge to by one of these again. I’m really beginning to think that the only way cyclists are ever going to get some redress in these situations is if they start dishing it out themselves.

sbob – Member
bails – Member
So it’s a pretty clear case of dangerous driving

No it isn’t.
The burden of proof for DD is very high and it is an incredibly hard charge to stick.

Burden of proof. Like a video of a driver failing to give due regard to a cyclist and making an overtaking manouver that could not have been completed safely? That kind of proof?

This:http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/motorist-convicted-of-dangerous-driving-after-being-caught-on-hidden-in-car-camera-1-4855955 led to a conviction for DD, a 12 month ban and 40 hours of community service. And he didn’t even run anyone over.

Like I said, if the CPS & police follow their own guidelines then the incident in the OP should have been charged as dangerous driving (obviously, the CPS are reliant on the police sending files in the first place).

Here’s a quote from the CPS (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/)

Dangerous driving includes situations where the driver has of his or her own free will adopted a particular way of driving, and also where there is a substantial error of judgement, that, even if only for a short time, amounts to driving falling far below the required standard. If the driving that caused the danger was taken as a deliberate decision, this would be an aggravating feature of the offence.

The following examples of circumstances that are likely to be characterised as dangerous driving are derived from decided cases and the SGC Definitive Guideline:

racing or competitive driving;

failing to have a proper and safe regard for vulnerable road users such as cyclists, motorcyclists, horse riders, the elderly and pedestrians or when in the vicinity of a pedestrian crossing, hospital, school or residential home;

speed, which is particularly inappropriate for the prevailing road or traffic conditions;

aggressive driving, such as sudden lane changes, cutting into a line of vehicles or driving much too close to the vehicle in front;

disregard of traffic lights and other road signs, which, on an objective analysis, would appear to be deliberate;

disregard of warnings from fellow passengers;

overtaking which could not have been carried out safely;

How is it not dangerous driving?

How is it not dangerous driving?

Your evidence shows FA.
Your evidence shows a cyclist cycling along and then falling over.
It doesn’t show a car overtaking.
It doesn’t show a collision.

The video you link to is totally different.
It does show a car ignoring solids and ignoring a keep left bollard.
That is evidence.

Like I said, the burden of proof for DD is very high and it is an incredibly hard charge to stick.
You might not like that, but that’s the way it is.

See, now it would help if the police said that.

Rather than “it was kinda your fault, don’t do it again”. “We’re sorry, but X is the best we can hope for because a good lawyer would make sure that DD doesn’t stick” is much more reassuring to hear.

I’m still waiting back to hear from the police (after 2 months) after a driver deliberately cut me up and stamped on the brakes, causing a collision. That could also be dangerous driving (on the due regard for cyclists and safe overtaking points mentioned above). That is all shown on camera, so we’ll see, but personal past experience suggests that as I said, the police don’t follow CPS guidelines and downgrade the charges.

I was assaulted by a teacher in full view of witnesses, firstly directly (by trying to pull me off my bike by my hair) then by knocking me off my bike (he was on a bike).
I was 11yrs old.

I suffered a concussion that triggered frequent migraines for the next 10-15yrs, although I don’t get them too often now, plus a couple of broken bones and other minor injuries.

He received a caution for common assault.

Life is a bitch sometimes. 😀

Yeah, but I’d imagine you probably deserved it 😉

😆

Those of you who are unhappy with the response from Nottinghamshire police should raise your concerns by writing to them at the address below detailing your reasons;

Professional Standards Directorate
Police Headquarters
Sherwood Lodge
Arnold
Nottingham
NG5 8PP

or by e-mail at psd@nottinghamshire.pnn.police.uk

Sent my message on Friday, but typically haven’t received a reply!!

I’m really losing confidence in the police, on saturday the burglar alarm went off in the school across the road, there’s no live in caretaker so I called the police on 101. They said that they’d only come out if I subscribed to their ‘call-out’ service!

I’d always thought that as a tax-payer I already subscibed enough, but apparantly not.

Maybe it was a false alarm, maybe somebody nicked all the computers or maybe it was kids trashing the classroom, but the police don’t care……..

Sent my message on Friday, but typically haven’t received a reply!!

Not to take any sides, but that is quite a short amount of time to get pissy about a non-reply.

Not to take any sides, but that is quite a short amount of time to get pissy about a non-reply.

+1

I should probably also say that the course of action taken by the police wasn’t all that unreasonable IMO, it was the badly worded letter that (literally) added insult to injury.

Wow.

Police response is ridiculous. I can’t think of any valid* mitigation for driving into the back of a cyclist indicating to turn right at a traffic island.

*Being on your way to your gran’s funeral is NOT a valid mitigation nor is “I’m a ****-ing idiot and don’t know how to drive”

No wonder they haven’t replied, probably too busy having sex on duty (and knowing that they’ll still keep their job if they’re found out!!)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/12/police-man-sex-gun-ankles-gwent

Deliberate collision IMO – time gap between horn sounding and impact gave plenty of time to slow / stop.

If the government really want to encourage people to use bikes, first they need to make them feel safe on the roads. A big part of that is making drivers aware that this kind of assault is not acceptable. Piss poor effort on the part of the police here….

Was that really an approprate dress for a funeral? And with those shoes to?

Or am I missing the point. ❓

I got a reply from the CPS……

Dear Chris,

Thank you for raising this incident to our attention. May I assure you that the CPS treat cyclists as vulnerable road users with great consideration and identify that an act of Bad Driving can have much greater repercussions. We have recently updated our legal guidance on charging offences arising from driving incidents, careful consideration is given to all road users http://www.cps.gov.uk , following the link to legal guidance. The comments made by the police are not ones that the CPS have made, it may be worth noting that the fact that the driver was placed on a course does identify that there was some bad driving that needed addressing. It seems that the CPS had little, or no role in this case as it was a matter diverted, as it was felt that the driver did need educating with regard to his driving. The CPS would have been forwarded the case if the police had deemed that diversion was inappropriate. Clearly the police must have made this decision and we have had no role in it.

I have made these comments having only read the article. It would be unfair for me to comment on any offences to consider or the Highway Code as it would seem that this was a case that the CPS had no role in. I hope this assists,

Regards

Katy Waterman

Senior Policy Advisor
Strategy and Policy Directorate
United House
York.

Nice note from the CPS and the guidelines are improved.

The injustices are daily though, maybe its just me/us because we read them but every day there seems to be some new tragedy.

You do wonder at what point more direct action is justified? This is people lifes 2k per year and ten of thousands more seriously injured.

Not all cyclist but all victims of road traffic.

Not to take any sides, but that is quite a short amount of time to get pissy about a non-reply

OK, but I still haven’t had a reply, even now………….