[Closed] Clarkson 'n-word' furore!

klumpy - Member

7 pages of ranting about a word that wasn't used

Yes it was used. I heard it clearly.

but to try and manufacture a spurious allegation of racism against them simply dilutes the SNR in which genuine incidents exist and damages the cause.

He's the most influential motoring journo in the western world.

He is consistently behaves in the manner of a racist, a homophobe and a bigoted bore on the one of the flagship shows of our national broadcaster.

He hates cyclists and has no issue in saying so.

That's why we're still discussing this.

He is consistently behaves in the manner of a racist, a homophobe and a bigoted bore on the one of the flagship shows of our national broadcaster.

Which is partly why I have never paid a license fee and just use my laptop to watch shows.

...and hopefully don't watch TV either. At least you are safe Tom, it's the rest if us who are in peril.

(Edit: Beaten by the edit. )

I might add, I watch those shows totally legally. On netflix. So yaahbooog THM.

JC has just been on BBC1 news, saying "I did everything in my power not to use that word"

Not a word of comment from the presenter.

"I did everything in my power not to use that word"

Yahhh, except use one of the non racist variants.

Tom_W1987 - Member

Which is partly why I have never paid a license fee and just use my laptop to watch shows.

Seriously, you lot'll be second against the wall when I take my rightful position as Leader.
First up are the blue badge abusers, obviously. 😀

Indeed as credible as a THM explanation when challenged about teachers using it

Say another rhyme whilst refusing to do it because it was racist would be everything in his power

Perhaps he is bullied at work and they made him do it?

I'm outraged! How can he get away with this?

Only a few of the earlier versions of this song used the n-word, why then is the song that he chose in of itself "not racist" and why did he feel the need to choose that version of the song?

To be brutally honest, it's probably the one he was brought up with. It was the version I heard at school growing up, and the one I immediately thought of when my little 'un started reciting "eeny meeny..." to chose between my or mum to take her swimming. Her version used 'fisher' instead but still to this day is makes me slightly nervous when I hear her saying it, even knowing she has thankfully never heard the offensive version.

I'm not a fan of his and don't have intentions of watching top gear. Nothing to do with any of his rants about cycling etc I just don't enjoy TV program's he's on.

I really do think its a slap on the wrist incident. Had he referred to someone on live tv/social media as a N-word then fair enough.

If this was completely in isolation I could probably brush it off as being an idiot saying something stupid in a thoughtless moment. However, clarkson has got form for saying vile things time and time again and apologising for them and then continuing to say them.

It doesn't take much digging to understand his political leanings or stand point. He's an old fashioned boorish right winger who thinks the world is overly politically correct and that everyone other than white middle class middle aged men should be treated with contempt. I have no doubt that he used the N word in this context because he has nothing but contempt and ignorance towards other ethnic groups and thought it was funny to try and sneak it in but then thought better of it.

And having his other boorish, right wing, middle aged, white middle class mates stating that he's not a racist is hardly drawing a line under it.

Reading how the people here are defending what he "said", or what he "appears" to be, reminds me of a rather disturbing conversation I had with an EDL member about how they "appear" to not hate Muslims.

What? You are barkin'

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I really do think its a slap on the wrist incident

I would agree if it was an isolated incident, a public apology and slap on the wrist would be appropriate. But it isn't an isolated incident, he has made a half arsed non apology because he doesn't care what he said, he cares that he has been caught.

Contrast that to when Mark Lawrenson, used the term "coloured" in a discussion about racism in football. He immediately came out and made a genuine heartfelt apology. And everyone was able to look at the incident and say fair enough, he is a guy who usually talks about football, tackling a serious issue, who stumbled over language due to the gravity of the subject matter. It was a minor mistake, that had the potential to cause some offence, he realised that and did the right thing.

I think I'll stick Pulp Fiction on tonight

Whats wrong with 'coloured'?

What am I supposed to call my son?!! Half-caste? Why are we so hungup on words.

For me racism is when there is malice or intent in tone/voice.

Then you have films, music etc where someone can say ho's, bitches and **** repeatdly.

Whats wrong with 'coloured'?

It has a strong association with the language used for slaves and segregation in America.

What am I supposed to call my son?

Don't you know his name?

What am I supposed to call my son?!! Half-caste?

You can if you want but I've always thought double-barreled names are a bit pretentious.

I love it when someone injects some much needed humour in to these argualympian epic threads! 😀

hora - Member

Whats wrong with 'coloured'?

That one is a minefield - excellent programme about it on Radio 4 recently.
Half the world uses it without issue, half doesn't.
When in Rome etc.

What am I supposed to call my son?!!

Why are we so hungup on words.

Me :

There's never been a time when people didn't understand the concept of racism. Just look at the struggle against fascism for proof of that.

Thrown back at me :

America fought against fascism, and yet had racial segregation. After the allies had taken Paris the new French government insisted no black soldiers took part in the celebration parades.

Yeah I was really suggesting that racism is a recent phenomenon which didn't exist before 🙄

EL - I think your experience differs simply because you lived in London and so people would have actually met people who had immigrated from the Commonwealth. Other areas of the country especially rurals areas just would not have done so their sensibilities where not informed in the same way. When the first black guy moved into the village where I was brought up, it caused quite a stir and that was in the early 80s.

We end up with ridiculous situations like this on the BBC today

Although he mumbles the offending word, the presenter clearly begins by saying the letter "n".

There is nothing wrong in saying the word FFS. It's like the whole John Terry reporting. The word that was **** was ok to use but no to write, whereas the word that was wrong to use was ok to print. We have got ourselves in a ridiculous linguistic tangle.

At least in SA you can use black, white, coloured as intended despite the history that goes with each. We should learn the lesson. Hora +1 again.

At least in SA you can use black, white, coloured as intended despite the history that goes with each. We should learn the lesson.

The racial make up of the population is very different in SA than the UK though, it isn't a realistic comparison between the two for the use of language.

hora - Member
Whats wrong with 'coloured'?

What am I supposed to call my son?!! Half-caste?

I don't know. What's his name?

It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was. And it has be said that I was brought up in a particularly anti-racist environment, indeed it was drummed into me from a very early age that all humans were equal irrespective of their race, class, or religion. Shamefully homophobia and sexism was ignored.

Ironically, in Spain of all places they called one of their Ibiza model's 'Bocanegra'! - black face 😀

I don't know. What's his name?

+1. There. I said it.

I was brought up in a particularly anti-racist environment, indeed it was drummed into me from a very early age that all humans were equal irrespective of their race, class, or religion.

Indeed, I find peoples differences interesting, not something to be feared, belittled or s****ed at, particularly by some in a nudge, nudge, wink, wink kind of way.

It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was.

The thing is, when you're growing up, everything is based on experience. I went to a small school in the back end of Norfolk, which was 100% white, so I didn't experience, or see, racism. The first time I did was watching the race riots in America, on TV.

At least in SA you can use black, white, coloured as intended despite the history that goes with each. We should learn the lesson.

Just as you can use coloured in the US and not here
its like words mean different things in different countries and all countries have racial terms that are, generally, only used by the racist

He used the n word which you cannot use here

Cannot, or should not?

Shocking. Etc.

It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was. And it has be said that I was brought up in a particularly anti-racist environment, indeed it was drummed into me from a very early age that all humans were equal irrespective of their race, class, or religion.

Me too but I didn't know what the N word meant when I was using it in the rhyme, I was much older before I did then I stopped using it.

Shamefully homophobia and sexism was ignored.

Thankfully it wasn't in my case. I blame my parents.

It's a fair point that my experiences were different to maybe some others mefty, although I find it very hard to get my head round the concept that some didn't understand what racism was.

I lived in a southern suberb of manchester in the 70'/80's and there was one indian lad in the school. We used both the N word and Tigger interchangeably for years and never gave it a 2nd thought. At high school I can't remember anyone of african descent but there were more indian lads.

As a kid I didn't care about racism, was too bothered slagging of the bertie blues (inc my brother). In hindsight I was naive maybe but picking on someone because of how they looked was never going to be a winner for me (nhs specs from the age of 6 etc etc).

Kids are different, kids will pick on anything- weight, height, if all are standard then its shape of head, shape of nose etc etc.

Thankfully it wasn't in my case.

Lucky you, there was a time when pretty much everyone, except gays and lesbians, were homophobic, at least that's how it appeared - even the law of the land was. Very much so in fact. And it was perfectly legal to pay a woman less that a man for doing [i]exactly[/i] the same job. You can thank Old Labour for sorting out those injustices. And making racism illegal.

Cannot, or should not?

My bad 😉

At least in SA you can use black, white, coloured as intended despite the history that goes with each. We should learn the lesson. Hora +1 again.

We should learn a lesson by not calling or describing people in ways they apparently prefer not to be called or described by us (whoever "we" happen to be). It's, like, don't be a dick.

part of clarksons problem is that hes not been shy about airing his political views and hes part of that whole chipping norton set bobbins
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plus his spat with piers morgan, hes made a lot of enemies and I wouldnt be surprised if other revelations pop up at some point (ala Andy Gray)

he may have to start toning down his persona and Im not sure thats compatible with his brand of entertainment

Just as you can use coloured in the US and not here

Just as ridiculous as the yanks objecting to oriental, which I still struggle to believe...

On the contrary, we will have defeated racism when we can use adjectives like black, white and coloured without prejudice. Hiding behind invented adjectives solves nothing, it's just hiding.

On the theme, when did white Irish come in as a race category? Seen it twice recently. Is it new?

So if you cant use coloured, can we say black?

Ok we could say 'of Afro-Carribean descent' but then thats the same as saying 'hes a bloke of Western European descent'.

If I called someone an African, I bet my voice would be listened to closely and I'd be asked to clarify.

****ing minefield. We should clamp down on malice rather than simple words with no ill-intent.

Just as ridiculous as the yanks objecting to oriental, which I still struggle to believe...

So do Asians. How about using words the words that people like, to describe them?

Why aren't I on the mailing list?

On the theme, when did white Irish come in as a race category? Seen it twice recently. Is it new?

You are correct that when we can all just innocently use words we will have defeated racism and the problem is we are trying to defeat an attitude [ racism /sexism] by picking on words and it is not 100 % accurate.

We should clamp down on malice rather than simple words with no ill-intent.

**** minefield. We should clamp down on malice rather than simple words with no ill-intent.

It's only a minefield if you're socially inept.

I distinctly remember using the original rhyme when VERY young, maybe around 1956 or '57 and thinking nothing of it. I recall later on being aware that you shouldn't use the word, and I know my appalling parents didn't, but then they were more interested in being anti-semites...

On the theme, when did white Irish come in as a race category?

When it is used to distinguish white Irish from black Irish ?

Phil Lynott: "You think it's hard being black? Try black, Irish AND a bastard..." 😀

Well odd that it is contained among the other "white" categories?

Seems a bit strange to me. Why do we need to discriminate on the base of one nation? We dont ask if someone is White Welsh.

So if you cant use coloured, can we say black?

Ok we could say 'of Afro-Carribean descent'

Do keep up - "Afro-Caribbean" is no longer the preferred term, since "Afro" is a hairstyle, not an identified ethnic origin. "African-Caribbean" is preferred these days (although may be out of date and replaced with something else by the time this post is sent).

I recall later on being aware that you shouldn't use the word, and I know my appalling parents didn't, but then they were more interested in being anti-semites...

I remember when I was primary school age not understanding why my mother didn't find my jokes about Jews dying in concentration camps funny, when as far as I was concerned they so clearly were.

I also remember all hell breaking lose when my father discovered that one of my siblings had drawn a swastika with their finger on a dirty pane of glass.

Surely this place should be called 'Sanctimonious Tossers World'?

Bloody hell, I'm reading this and agreeing with Hora and THM. Some of you lot need to see the bigger picture and work out why some people are offended.

As for Clarkson, he didn't actually say **** and he complaining that he mumbled a word that 'after expert sound analysis' definitely started with 'n' is ****ing mental.

Surely this place should be called 'Sanctimonious Tossers World'?

Erm... Eh?

We dont ask if someone is White Welsh.

I do when I'm on the sheep dating website.

As for Clarkson, he didn't actually say **** and he complaining that he mumbled a word that 'after expert sound analysis' definitely started with 'n' is **** mental.

Nah what's mental is that he didnt use...

Ip, dip, dog sh**, dirty barstand, fracking git, you are not it.

But then he knew excatly what he was doing

As for Clarkson, he didn't actually say **** and he complaining that he mumbled a word that 'after expert sound analysis' definitely started with 'n' is **** mental.

Except that he did. You don't need expert audio analysis to hear it either.

It's only a minefield if you're socially inept.

Yup, it's really not that difficult is it. And if you make a well-intentioned mistake most people won't judge you for it. Clarkson's wasn't a well-intentioned mistake though.

So mumbling sounds that sound like real words is as bad as actually using them then? If you lot can hear an offensive word in there then really, I applaud you, because I'd be willing to bet, out of context, without knowing who was speaking you wouldn't hear anything of the sort.

the context is hes a riske entertainer whos has a history of making almost racist gaffes

Don't have to hear something to know what's implied.

He would have only had to say Eenie Meenie....... and you would know what he meant, because of his previous that Kimbers has pionted out

He would have only had to say Eenie Meenie....... and you would know what he meant

Many of the outraged on here wouldn't as they hadn't heard of that N word version, that's probably why they can hear it as they've been told what to listen for. I couldn't hear it.

Welcome to the thread.

On the contrary, we will have defeated racism when we can use adjectives like black, white and coloured without prejudice. Hiding behind invented adjectives solves nothing, it's just hiding.

What is being missed here is using terms mentioned above still carry connotations of racism, and its a bit too early to be considering using those terms with no strings attached with so much recent history.

But I think those terms should just disappear regardless, because we could just call our fellow humans...fellow humans. Its not actually difficult to be in-offensive.

Don't have to hear something to know what's implied.

He would have only had to say Eenie Meenie....... and you would know what he meant, because of his previous that Kimbers has pionted out

Yeah he could have just said "dip dip sky blue who's it not you".

Luckily the eenie meenie version wasn't broadcast so it hasn't caused any offence.

Been here a while, checkout 3/4 of the way done page 2

So because you can't hear it, that's OK ?

We dont ask if someone is White Welsh.

Yes I know technically Ireland is UK not Britain but you know what i mean and I did not make the categories.

If you lot can hear an offensive word in there then really, I applaud you, because I'd be willing to bet, out of context, without knowing who was speaking you wouldn't hear anything of the sort.

If even Clarkson wont defend that fact it sounds like it [ though he was trying so hard to not say he that he said it] why on earth are some of you?

So because you can't hear it, that's OK ?

So it's offensive when you don't hear it?

If even Clarkson wont defend that fact it sounds like it [ though he was trying so hard to not say he that he said it] why on earth are some of you?

Because I didn't hear it. If I didn't hear the N word then I didn't hear it.

So if you cant use coloured, can we say black?

No said a manager of a kids resourse centre back i 1993m we usd to manufactre and supplyy BLACKBOARDS, the things kids chalk on, we got told that we had to call them CHALK BOARDS, as the words BLACKBOARD deemeanaded black people, a few weeks later we stated doing white faced ones for painting on, we called them painting easels, same chap said why not call them WHITEBOARDS, i just pointed out that deeemed white people, he just didnt get it.

Some people like to find offence in some words or just manipulate that word for attention seeking purposes.

Well he chose not to have it aired so clearly even he thought it had potential to offend.

You are not just arguing over what we think you are arguing against what he thinks
Even for STW this is a new level of preposterous

Some people like to find offence in some words or just manipulate that word for attention seeking purposes

Well he chose not to have it aired so clearly even he thought it had potential to offend.

It wasn't intended to be aired, caught something on TV this am that said they're call a 'rush' it's a sort dress rehearsal where there practice certain parts but not necessarily to the finished script.

You are not just arguing over what we think you are arguing against what he thinks
Even for STW this is a new level of preposterous

No I'm not. I didn't hear the word is what I've said. As usually with your standard your copy and pasting with your own interpretation never a new low for you.

No said a manager of a kids resourse centre back i 1993m we usd to manufactre and supplyy BLACKBOARDS, the things kids chalk on, we got told that we had to call them CHALK BOARDS, as the words BLACKBOARD deemeanaded black people,

Either you're spinning a yarn are you company fell for an urban myth. The term has continued to be used.

@project

Never mind chalkboards, try getting off the phone with someone you've just been discussing the new internet filtering arrangements with and then sending an email to the whole organisation about the "blacklists" and "whitelists" of websites.

The same organisation that would like everyone to refrain from using the outdated term "Afro-Caribbean"...

Going to have to explain that one to me edlong, since when was blacklist deemed offensive?

seriously? tbh, I thought it was the pretty obvious association of black = bad; white = good that people object to on that one.

Hence the chalkboard one being a nonsense - there being no good or bad connotations to whether a board is black or white, just a literal description of its colour...

seriously? tbh, I thought it was the pretty obvious association of black = bad; white = good that people object to on that one

Really? I've never heard anyone complain about the term.

Because I didn't hear it. If I didn't hear the N word then I didn't hear it.

What word do you think he said then?

What word do you think he said then?

I did that way back, I heard nurrnum.

That's not a word though is it. Can you not make out any of the words around it either?

Why do you think he would be just making up a random sound and saying that, rather than using the racist term which is part of the nursery rhyme he's reciting, that it sounds very much like?

That's not a word though is it.

Well done have a gold star.

What would you think if he had said, very clearly, the N-word ?

You really have to be trying very hard to claim he's not saying the word, and even he hasn't really denied it. 😕

Yes he mumbles it a bit but it's still pretty clear.

Well done have a gold star.

🙄