Charlottesville

Seems like an odd conincidence that the former slaves acestors are all so poor and keep getting shot. Its only what 50-60 years since segregation ended.

The conduct of the war on drugs since approximately 1980, the collapse of blue collar jobs Northern US cities, and the profit driven prison system [i]EDIT: The wording of the 1865 13th Amendment does have some bearing here[/i] has little to do with segregation in some southern states up until the early 1960’s. The most substantial link you could make is that the assassinations and imprisonment/silencing in the late 1960’s and ’70’s of powerful leaders for the African-American population. By the time the war on drugs started in the 1980’s the poor had practically no voice…

…I would only ever want to be on trial in the US if I had the means to afford a decent lawyer.

Anyhow, that has little to do with the rise of the alt-right and the emboldenment of the far-right. They will of course make links and cite the ‘erosion of white’ culture blah, blah, blah. The recent Gamergate nonsense and sexism probably has more to do with the election of Trump and subsequent new-confidence in the older far-right groups than black poverty in the US.

What’s Gamergate and WTF has it got to do with Trump; Guardian; Gamergate & the Alt-Right

A tour of some of Trump’s ‘fine people’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/17/charlottesville-alt-right-neo-nazis-white-nationalists

Just to add to Kimbers link – this is the kind of person that went to Charlottesville.

Convicted far-right member at Charlottesville[/url]

Agents also found notes written by Tubbs that showed that he and John Tubbs planned to set up a new group called the Knights of the New Order and a lists of targets that included newspapers, television stations and businesses owned by Jews and blacks. They also found a group pledge authored by Tubbs. “I dedicate my heart to oppose the enemies of my race, my nation and the New Order,” the pledge read. “I dedicate my life from this moment forward to fostering the welfare of the white Aryan race.”

Many had embraced Gamergate because they felt it wholly matched their ideals, and yet – quite consistently – no one in the movement was willing to be associated with the abuse being carried out in its name. Prominent supporters on Twitter, in subreddits and on forums like 8Chan, developed a range of pernicious rhetorical devices and defences to distance themselves from threats to women and minorities in the industry: the targets were lying or exaggerating, they were too precious; a language of dismissal and belittlement was formed against them. Safe spaces, snowflakes, unicorns, cry bullies. Even when abuse was proven, the usual response was that people on their side were being abused too. These techniques, forged in Gamergate, have become the standard toolset of far-right voices online.

excerpt from that gamergate article up there. remind you of anyone?

Let’s be clear. The opposition to Nazis and their supporters, whose views identify them as differing from Nazis only in the addition of parentheses, are a loose collection of just about all other shades of opinion and political allegiance who otherwise would be spending their time arguing with each other.

Attempts to dilute the acts of the Charlotteville Nazis and their fellow-travellers by parsing the argument, describing the opposition as a homogenous group who are “just as bad”, indicates that the person responsible is AT LEAST a Nazi sympathizer and if push came to shove, would be a direct supporter of said slime life.

As to the justification for punching Nazis, it worked in the 1940’s. It always does with bullies of any sort.

Some results in the HuffPost/YouGov poll conducted 14-15th August:

48% of the Trump voters polled said that the white nationalists at Charlottesville were either “mostly right” (11%) or “went too far, but they have a point” (37%).

68% of the Trump voters polled said that “there is a lot of discrimination against white people”.

Only 3% of Trump voters polled think Trump personally supports white nationalism. Conversely only 3% of Clinton voters polled think he opposes it.

— http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/americans-trump-white-nationalism-poll_us_59941e9ee4b04b193361c305

Shows some quite incredible divides between the Democrat and Republican voters. Seems pretty clear that Charlottesville is just a beginning 🙁

There’s a bit to like in those numbers Graham. Look at the way the non or third party voters break.

Frankly, ANY society where it’s ok, or even legal for civilians to parade around with assault rifles in public is pretty messed up:

( America land of the free stupid )

May seem mad to us in the relatively gun-free UK max, but then despite the violent confrontations and guns (on both sides), no one was shot.

Does feel like a matter of time though

@ Bigearedrider

I think that must be one of the ‘good people’ Trump was talking about.

@ Batfink

Of course we wouldn’t – they’re terrorists! So why aren’t the neo-nazi’s and the KKK and the like classified as terrorist organisations? Genuine question? They seem to fit the criteria.

This… If the Americans cherish their freedom of speech so much surely they would’t object to isis opening up a North American office?

@ aracer

Axis of evil indeed.

I noticed the ITV, BBC news channels were using the footage from the Vice documentary last night, thanks to whoever posted it up here. What an example of journalism, following the old fashioned practice of following a story, rather then copying and pasting a Reuters report and adding a few opinions. It reminded me of some of the reports Charles Wheeler delivered for the BBC back in the 60’s when he was covering the civil rights protests.

Look at the way the non or third party voters break.

that whatever the question a third of them are not sure of the answer?
Sarcasm aside I genuinely dont get your point.

Its strange how white men fell their identity is under threat when they are no longer allowed to oppress non whites and non males.

They literally fear equality.

Junkyard – lazarus

They literally fear equality.

nail on the head.

I’ve paraphrased, but this needs to be cut and pasted onto every page of a discussion regarding Nazi’s vs Anti Fascists.

Don’t confuse antifascism with antifa.

Thanks for the clarification

Which type are you then?

Don’t confuse antifascism with antifa.

yep one is what normal people call opposing fascism

one is what insecure, paranoid alt-right types call people opposing fascism

its an important distinction!

Don’t confuse antifascism with antifa.

Elaborate please.

Frankly, ANY society where it’s ok, or even legal for civilians to parade around with assault rifles in public is pretty messed up:

OMG! Guns! wild, violent gun toting nutters, presumably carrying thousands of bullets in their quick-change assault rifle magazines!

How many people got shot? Hundreds presumably?

Uh oh.. the lone wolf is back again

How many people got murdered shot?

lone wolf

You knows it

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.co.uk/2009/02/inspiring-rides-true-greatness-knows-no.html

How many people got murdered shot?

You’re saying we should ban cars?

You’re saying we should ban cars?

only those driven by terrorised neo-nazis forced to run people over top avoid being punched in the face

Fox News Republished a Celebratory Video of “Cars Plowing Through Protesters” in January

ninfan – Member
Frankly, ANY society where it’s ok, or even legal for civilians to parade around with assault rifles in public is pretty messed up:
OMG! Guns! wild, violent gun toting nutters, presumably carrying thousands of bullets in their quick-change assault rifle magazines!

How many people got shot? Hundreds presumably?

you do understand you lost this thread right?

Fox News Republished a Celebratory Video of “Cars Plowing Through Protesters” in January

Why not? Cars driving at protesters is literally a laughing matter

The conduct of the war on drugs since approximately 1980, the collapse of blue collar jobs Northern US cities, and the profit driven prison system

Fynny cause the black populations of southern states were poor and discriminated against before then!

In the same way shooting people with an automatic rifle is:

ninfan – Member

Why not? Cars driving at protesters is literally a laughing matter

humped about 17-0 from my count.

You’re saying we should ban cars?

No but I think a lengthy ban from driving would be appropriate for the person who said this

you were near me and suggesting punching me in the face was appropriate then I’d run you over with my car to get away from you

Why not? Cars driving at protesters is literally a laughing matter

Credible sources report that car was escaping from a bunch of stick wielding thugs and it was nervous laughter at the narrow escape.

thankfully there were enough armed folk there to maintain peace
Without them who knows what may have happened there may have been a riot or death or some unpleasantness from both sides

carrying a gun signals one thing, that you are prepared to kill someone. and in that case, imo, you forfeit your right to be treated as a human (ie with compassion, morality and respect)

There’s only one group condoning violence round here – the people who think it’s ok to punch people you disagree with in the face.

I don’t care if you’re white, black, or even blue, carrying a gun signals one thing, that you are prepared to kill someone.

Bullshit.

ninfan – Member
There’s only one group condoning violence round here – the people who think it’s ok to punch people you disagree with in the face.

Do you accept that Nazism is inherently about mass murder/genocide or not? a simple yes or no will do.

I’m pretty sure you got 2 men send off in the second half, this game is beyond redemption…

Is it just a fashion thing then, and some people carry guns but wouldn’t ever consider using them?

You’re saying we should ban cars?

If that’s the best you can do, you’ve clearly lost.

Desperate troll *sadface*

Is it just a fashion thing then, and some people carry guns but wouldn’t ever consider using them?

Like brakes on fixies.

I think the sensible point is to accept they would not all preemptively use the gun but it seems utterly pointless to own a gun you are 100% not ever going to use under any circumstances. Therefore it does signal you are prepared to use it – where death is a pretty likely outcome- if “you have to”.

Given this, crude though the statement is, it is basically accurate

The thing is if you’re carrying a gun it’s easy enough to shoot someone, if you’re not carrying a gun it becomes much harder to shoot people. Making it harder to shoot people seems like a good thing.

ninfan – Member

There’s only one group condoning violence round here

Liar.
Nazis condone violence.
You condone violence.

You can get attention by being nice, not just by being horrid. 💡
Lunch in the canteen, or table for one in Subway? 😉

akira – Member

The thing is if you’re carrying a gun it’s easy enough to shoot someone, if you’re not carrying a gun it becomes much harder to shoot people.

I’m not sure, maybe the fact that you are 45 times more likely to die from a gun in the US compared to the UK is just a statistical anomaly.