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I think all member states would have to vote for it and I imagine a few are getting mighty pissed off with us.
I think all member states would have to vote for it and I imagine a few are getting mighty pissed off with us.
Brexit, to most member states now, is resigned to the middle pages of the newspapers, it's just something going on in the background for most of them. They're all fine (mostly) so most no longer care.
There's no real reason for them to grant an extension, nothing in it for them.
I guess there's still a chance that BJ could completely fold, like he's been playing a top hand at poker but is finally revealed to have a 2 of clubs and a joker but he's surrounded himself by Brexiteers so the cabinet won't go for it.
If he had a cabinet made up of sensible competent people, sane heads would likely have prevailed by now but they're not in it for running the country, they're in it to.line their own/their mates' pockets.
IF johnson or Frosty, on his behalf, requested an extension I think the EU would agree - with conditions.
The EU will continue to behave like the adults in the room and act professionally.
As for likelihood of this happening, I think it has increased.
Still no real cause for optimism but...I live in hope.
For there to be an extension it would need a unanimous vote in the EU.
Again guys - get real. No chance of Johnson asking, no chance of the EU agreeing
I think the EU would agree
How? Everything done under A50 has completed… the WA agreed included a one time extension, short or long, could be offered by the EU, but also stipulated a last date that could be accepted by the UK. That date passed this summer… “we” turned it down, despite knowing full well what was happening Europe wide as regards the pandemic. The EU now has no legal way to extend… it would require a new treaty to do so… and all that means… full buy in and ratification by all the EU countries and bodies… why would they all say yes? Where are they going to find the time and political capital to make this happen, given all that they are currently dealing with this winter? For most EU politicians, Brexit is done, and the UK can go jump off a cliff for all they care. They don’t need us, and aren’t going to waste time and effort on us now. Accept what the EU are already offering, or go away.
I'd have thought false rumours of a potential extension will have originated somewhere Brexity.
It would serve at least two purposes from their point of view. Firstly to flush out any remaininess in less than savvy politicians and commentators, but more importantly it allows them to create a sense of the nasty old EU being vindictive. 'We' dug this hole for ourselves.
You also have to remember the utterly disgraceful and underhand way this government has conducted itself during all this.
Sending unsigned letters, trying to pass bills that contravene international law etc.
Even if the EU was otherwise disposed towards granting an extension (which it isn't and rightly so) you would find the blocker is 'our' cheating and lying.
If you listen really carefully you can hear the clucking of a massive flock of chickens coming home to roost.
Google usually finds rumours, the most recent thing I can find is an Express article about a "grace" period:
TJ has it and Kelvin adds the detail.
What does Carrie think of Brexit? with Dom gone she must be the one running the country.
Ha ha.
The Express talking about 'grace'.
Excuse me whilst I step back through the looking glass.
Assuming that the people who were really orchestrating/pushing for Brexit (and I mean those with a means to make it happen, not the fools down on the ground floor who wouldn't know a punch in the face if it hit them) did actually understand the full import of what they were doing - rather than actually believing the "cake and eat it" version they were selling everyone else - then nothing that has happened so far is a surprise to them. It's all going exactly as they knew it would.
Their problem, if you could even call it that, is in selling the reality of the situation (the predictable disaster) to all the people who previously believed the various "cake and eat it " stories that were their original reasons for them voting "Leave". When it turns out that almost no one gets what they were promised they would get from Brexit someone else will be blamed and the people who were desperate enough to believe the Brexit bullshit back in the day will be just as desperate to happily believe that it was all the fault of the nasty Germans (or whomever fits their personal agenda).
@Scotroutes, not sure if that pic's of the site but the core of the story is true:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/heavy-rain-holds-up-brexit-lorry-park-construction-236994/
And that's even before the ocean of shit
Here's another article from July about govey's lorry park; would appear to confirm it's a known flood risk area.
https://shepwayvox.org/2020/07/16/work-begins-on-brexit-clearance-lorry-park-in-ashford/
Genuine, or fake news?
You’re aware that the planning for no deal, which this comes under, was assigned to a certain Mr M Gove?
Have a look at his track record and ask yourself again?
OK so, that picture's just along the road, not the actual site (the distinctive circle thing in the corner is where the A2070 and A2042 join). It's about 50 feet higher (the road that runs through it is called Highfield Lane, which is a Clue) but there is a stream running right through the middle. So, clearly it gets wet but not actually on the river plain and the photo probably isn't at all representative.
Some of that was actual independent thought btw! Research and that. Felt weird not just repeating something on the internet.
Yeah, I was hoping a local might be able to determine fact from fiction.
Their problem, if you could even call it that, is in selling the reality of the situation (the predictable disaster) to all the people who previously believed the various “cake and eat it ” stories that were their original reasons for them voting “Leave”.
They don't care. they will have got their way. These are not elected politicians mainly and its of no concern to them.
the main players are Murdoch, The barclay brothers adn Putin. How much do you think any of them care about public opinion in the UK?
the main players are Murdoch, The barclay brothers adn Putin
That's a complete fantasy.
Murdoch's focus is outside of the UK.
Barclay Brothers? Your having a laugh.
Putin is the richest person in the world through his kleptocratic regime; money is of no consequence to him now; he's enjoyed causing trouble elsewhere and he owns trump; the EU on his border hasn't stopped his political interference in Ukraine over many years. His focus is on retaining power. Anything he does now is for shits'n'giggles - doing things because he can.
There are many others who are likely to profit from a no deal brexit.
Will johnson's mate crispin odey benefit or is focussed on defending the sexual assault allegations against him?
Murdoch and the barclay brothers have been running a 20+ year anti EU campaign. cummings spent time working for oligarchs close to Putin and Putin wants to destabilise the EU and this was his opportunity
there are other players like ReesMogg and Banks for whom its a chance to make money and Farage who wants fame and to feel relevant and plenty of other people for who its a chance to make money but if you do not understand that Murdoch and the barclay brothers have been driving this for years and that Putin took it as a chance to weaken the EU then there is nothing further I can say.
We know there was Russian money in the referendum. We know there were Russian troll farms and Bots driving the anti EU feeling
Interesting perfect storm on the horizon
Well that may partly explain why 3rd gen Zen processors are so hard to come by.
Murdoch and the barclay brothers have been running a 20+ year anti EU campaign. cummings spent time working for oligarchs close to Putin and Putin wants to destabilise the EU and this was his opportunity
there are other players like ReesMogg and Banks for whom its a chance to make money and Farage who wants fame and to feel relevant and plenty of other people for who its a chance to make money but if you do not understand that Murdoch and the barclay brothers have been driving this for years and that Putin took it as a chance to weaken the EU then there is nothing further I can say.
We know there was Russian money in the referendum. We know there were Russian troll farms and Bots driving the anti EU feeling
Ooh, patronising.
You're throwing out lots of accusations but no facts to support them.
Murdoch backs the horse likeliest to win; always has since his earliest days in the Aussie press.
The Barclay Brothers have done the same as anyone with a media platform; they have used it to push their personal agenda.
If you read my post carefully you will see that I recognise - fully - that Putin has never shown any regard for the EU on Russia's borders.
The UK's involvement in or absence from the EU won't result in any material change to Putin's behaviour.
rees-mogg and banks are minnows; farage is a bleeding haemorrhoid on the rectum of the political establishment.
Russian money has been an accepted fact in UK politics for at least 20 years - and widely commented on.
Same for bots and troll farms but not for 20 years.
As for cummings working in russia - yes, he did; where is your evidence that he worked for oligarchs close to Putin?
Easy to throw out allegations and make them sound convincing - a la trump; when it comes to facts to support the allegations there is usually radio silence.
Anything more to say?
Doing you really need TJ to explain and prove all that for you Frank? Have you really missed it all? New to the UK or something?
Frank - there is this wonderful thing called google if you want. all the data is out there.
Why was the report on Russian interference never published?
Now I have two posters with patronising attitudes neither of whom provide any hard evidence to substantiate their claims.
Kelvin, I have been in the UK for longer than you and don't need your very kind offer to explain anything to me.
TJ - the russia report was unduly and unacceptably late but, in case you missed it, was published.
Turning back to evidence - where is it?
Let me remind both of of you of the 4 Fs - First Find the Fking Facts
TJ - what a lazy response...go google; no - I'm inviting you to present the facts to support your allegations.
You two, get something straight - I'm not saying TJ is wrong but some facts would be *helpful*; without facts it's nothing more than...TJ says and TJ is never wrong.
As I posted above ^^^ that's the trump attitude - I say it so it's right.
What do you want evidence of Frank?
Telegraph and Murdoch papers running a long anti-EU campaign? Do you want years of front pages posted here? Or some of the Russian stuff? Pick one and we can give it a go…
TJ – the russia report was unduly and unacceptably late but, in case you missed it, was published.
True. All it said is that the government didn’t look for any Russian involvement.
Frank.
Have a watch of 'Hypernormalisation' by Adam Curtis if you want to understand Putin's shtick.
He wants to be the saviour of the people. He does this by destabilising everything he can outside of Russia so he can do the 'I may be a bad guy, but look out there, it is so dangerous and unstable out there, you are better off with a bad guy like me on your side comrades' routine.
Money has ceased to be a concern for him. Like Mobutu in the 80s & 90s, he perceives himself actually as 'the nation'. And, to be perfectly honest, I think he gets off on it.
Brexit is only ideological for the stupid prats that actually believe in it. And they ain't gonna get jack shit more than anyone else out of it. The real point is an assault on the post war settlement. One of the last great potential cash cows left. Just so long as it is given a sufficient economic shock so that bit by bit it becomes 'unsustainable'. Enter the 'market', or to be more precise mates of those who caused the shock.
Under-tender, get contract, get paid (offshore the lot ASAP), stick to service levels (just) for 6-12 months, get exposed, do a runner, leave mess for someone else to sort. Challenge future generations to see you in court.
There's still Nazi gold and art treasures sitting in vaults in Zurich, Berne and Thun. Possession is nine tenths and all that.
When it's gone, it's gone...
Another thing to remember with kleptocracies is that it isn't just 'The Big Man' whose financial needs must be met. There will be coterie of hangers on as well as potential or actual former opponents who have been bought off.
Actual repression only tends to happen to the big players who refuse to be bought off or lots of 'little people' if they start to organise against you.
Apparently sheep farmers should just diversify into beef farming if disadvantaged by likely no-deal tariffs, according to George Eustice. What could be simpler?
I wonder what the tariff on unicorn exports is? Must be some opportunities there.
the main players are Murdoch, The barclay brothers adn Putin
While they have an interest, they're not the main drivers
The main drivers are the parasitic 'Disaster Capitalist' speculators who will make billions when the pound tanks in January, then as the economy goes into freefall will swoop in like vultures to buy British companies at bargain basement princes, to asset strip them and make billions more.
They are aided in this by far-right Tory's who spot a once in a lifetime opportunity to completely deregulate the economy, tearing up workers rights and environmental standards, amongst other things, and turn the country into a tax haven for wandering global capital.
Apparently sheep farmers should just diversify into beef farming if disadvantaged by likely no-deal tariffs
I eagerly await seeing the Heifers wandering free on the rocky Lake District fells where the Herdwicks once roamed
Oh... erm.... I think I've spotted a problem here
Looks like the new Brompton will called Schadenfreude.
https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/folding-bike-maker-brompton-performs-brexit-u-turn/
Harsh on Brompton… they made it public how much money they had to spend on preparations for Brexit, when other UK companies were scared of speaking out as regards Brexit for fear of bad PR. They have been pragmatic and open… they may have previously underestimated just how bad Brexit will eventually be for home country producers, but they are far from alone there.
Brexit is only ideological for the stupid prats that actually believe in it. And they ain’t gonna get jack shit more than anyone else out of it. The real point is an assault on the post war settlement. One of the last great potential cash cows left. Just so long as it is given a sufficient economic shock so that bit by bit it becomes ‘unsustainable’. Enter the ‘market’, or to be more precise mates of those who caused the shock.
+1
Goes back to my comment "Brexit isn't the destination, it's the vehicle".
I'm unsure at what point (some of) the "stupid prats" will wake up and realise what's going on, for many it will be never.
I’m unsure at what point (some of) the “stupid prats” will wake up and realise what’s going on, for many it will be never.
They'll experience it in the nhs with lengthening waiting times, reclassification from 'clinically critical' to 'elective' etc. But then the Mail will be along to tell them it is all because of 'health tourism' and benefits cheats and they'll believe it. Again.
The only consolation in this is, given the fact that it will always be someone else's fault, they can never be happy as a result. But that's tough shit.
So it appears that a large trading block is a desirable thing, imagine being part of one but thinking you are stronger on your own:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54949260
There’s a very good reason that no other nation has ever conducted negotiations to leave a large trading block.
Because it’s a completely ****ing stupid idea.
One things for sure.... We’ll be the last as well as the first. Anyone even contemplating it will be watching this car crash and deciding not to bother
Brexit is the best advert imaginable for remaining in the EU.
I’m unsure at what point (some of) the “stupid prats” will wake up and realise what’s going on, for many it will be never.
I think the appropriate term is useful idiots - but of course they'll never admit they've been played and will continue to blame the EU and remainers for why their sunlit uplands has turned into a pile of $hit, or should I say a lorry park in Kent.
Not just a lorry park in Kent. A flooded lorry park in Kent
I reckon we’ll get a week of constant record rainfall in the last week of December just to top off our new status as the clowns of the world, as the capitals of Europe dissolve into hysterical laughter at thousands of artics stranded up to their axles in a lake
Given the trade block that's just formed including China, Australia and New Zealand the chances of a trade deal between the UK and Australia/New Zealand are slim to non-existant. It was the second story on TF1 news tonight after Armenia. I expected to see something here, zilch, checked the Guardian, zilch. WTF!
Edit to add in case people wonder wahat I'm going on about:
Aus and NZ still remember how the UK effed them over when we joined the eu. they are not likely to be forgiving. They had to forge new markets and did so successfully
Ed - the grauniad tends to put up its antipodean news overnight
Edit - its in the live blog
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/15/coronavirus-live-news-us-confirms-177000-daily-cases-as-victoria-marks-16-days-with-no-infections?page=with:block-5fb0be238f08ad0357f76870#block-5fb0be238f08ad0357f76870
I expected to see something here, zilch,
It was on the BBC News website
Thanks TJ, I'll be interested to see how much space they give the story tomorrow and if they draw the obvious conclusions about British hopes of a deal with NZ/Australia.
It isn't now Scotsroutes, I checked, even clicking on "Global Trade". That's only 15h after the news broke. News that considered so important that it's in the first stories elsewhere.
Found it:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54949260
I reckon we’ll get a week of constant record rainfall in the last week of December just to top off our new status as the clowns of the world, as the capitals of Europe dissolve into hysterical laughter at thousands of artics stranded up to their axles in a lake a high proportion of which will be made up of lorry drivers' piss.
FTFY.
The RCEP story is on the BBC front page now.
The RCEP story is on the BBC front page now.
I honestly thought that this would either never get off the ground, or take years more work to get agreed. We really are swimming against that tide of world trade, aren’t we. Who’ll side with us in the WTO now? EU… and… who else? …but still we’re acting as if the EU can be pushed away.
Eskay posted the BBC link on the previous page 6 hours ago.
So it appears that a large trading block is a desirable thing, imagine being part of one but thinking you are stronger on your own:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54949260/blockquote >
Why have businesses just sleepwalked into disaster? Is it fear of being called a Remoaner or a traitor? Or is thinking that votes don't have consequences and politics is some sort of sideshow?
https://twitter.com/bbcmartynoates/status/1327958985614495744
Eustice will along soon to reassure the fishing industry that they can start producing beef instead, or that it’ll all be fine because we can import more fish now, or some such irrelevance. Led by donkeys.
After allowing a brief moment of optimism last week when a couple of the hardline Brexiteers departed, I'm now back to agreeing with TJ. It looks like No Deal is the only realistic option. And that is indeed what they wanted right from the off. I think the Internal Market Bill was Cummings parting gift to absolutely guarantee a no deal exit. It's certainly worked. As it tend to when you casually commit to breaking international law and put an internationally binding peace treaty in jeopardy
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1328240798861766656?s=20
Next year is going to be unbelievably bleak. Will Hutton wrote an incredulous piece in the Observer yesterday, expressing what most of us seem to feel
The Observer also printed a story yesterday that Johnson is now so terrified of Farages newly re-labelled ego-vehicle and what effect it might have on the Tories at next years local elections that, once again, Nigel is dictating government policy
I just popped in to ask if anyone thought there was now reason to hope for some sort of minimal 'BINO'. Read the posts above. Have my answer. Sad. Good luck all!
At this stage in negotiations we need a clear headed, pragmatic, empathetic and decisive statesmen.
What we have is a boorish oaf who is going to enjoy the next 14 days in his dressing gown, in a booze addled fug, drinking champagne at 11am and spaffing his antibodies all over pornhub and/or into the latest ambitious staffer in downing Street
This is how it ends
What we have is a boorish oaf who is going to enjoy the next 14 days in his dressing gown, in a booze addled fug, drinking champagne at 11am and spaffing his antibodies all over pornhub and/or into the latest ambitious staffer in downing Street
At least that will produce a BINO.
Brexit in Name Onlyfans
At least that will produce a BINO
I very much doubt that. Lord Frost will just spend the week running down the clock until Thursday when the talks will collapse, the tabloid press will have a meltdown about EU intransigence and determination to 'punish' the plucky UK, then its full speed ahead for No Deal as the Disaster Capitalist vultures circle overhead to await their big payday
Why have businesses just sleepwalked into disaster? Is it fear of being called a Remoaner or a traitor? Or is thinking that votes don’t have consequences and politics is some sort of sideshow?
We are where we are for a number of reasons, one was the UK gov basically blacklisting anyone who spoke out against Brexit. Allied to businesses actually thinking the grownups would be along shortly to sort out a sensible compromise that would screw everyone.
Why have businesses just sleepwalked into disaster?
Remember Johnsons famous quote in regard to Brexit...
"**** business!!"
Well he really meant it. The Tory Party ceased to be 'the party of business', the day the Vote Leave lot completed their coup and took over the party. They listen to nobody and are driven by an idealogical zealotry that everything must be sacrificed on the alter of.
The boardrooms and trade associations all around the country have been trying to lobby the government (Its worth reading the Will Hutton article from Yesterdays Observer) for the last few years. They are all united against Brexit. They have all been ignored. Even the previous sacred cow of the finance industry haven't had their concerns listened too.
.....Yet they will still vote Tory .
Is there any way we can sack off our Govt & get the EU to take over?
Apparently sheep farmers should just diversify into beef farming if disadvantaged by likely no-deal tariffs, according to George Eustice. What could be simpler?
Martin - that's just code for: that's just details, once we've sorted ourselves out you lot are on your own.
Martin – that’s just code for: that’s just details, once we’ve sorted ourselves out you lot are on your own.
To be honest, when someone is mugging you in broad daylight you don't expect them to leave you your bus fare home.
That is exactly what is happening with Beexit. A one off heist to best them all.
Is there any way we can sack off our Govt & get the EU to take over?
I want the Scottish government to take over EU:UK negotiations on behalf of us all.
Is this shit really happening?
Entering other countries
Border control: you may have to show your return ticket and money
At border control, you may need to:show a return or onward ticket
show you have enough money for your stay
use separate lanes from EU, EEA and Swiss citizens when queueing
Visas for short trips: you will not need one if you’re a touristIf you’re a tourist, you will not need a visa for short trips to most EU countries, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. You’ll be able to stay for up to 90 days in any 180-day period.
Different rules will apply to Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania. If you visit these countries, visits to other EU countries will not count towards the 90-day total.
You may need a visa or permit to stay for longer, to work or study, or for business travel.
https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021
Are people ****ing stupid or what? It's unreal.
Are people **** stupid or what?
The proportion is about 52% I believe.
"I don't think anyone really knew what they were voting for" - Brexit voter from my family when I told them how it's ****ing my life up in Spain.
Is this shit really happening?
You may need a visa or permit to stay for longer, to work or study, or for business travel.
And, good luck getting a work visa... most countries have an "Europe First" policy, which will mean UK workers will need their prospective employer to give evidence that no worker from within the EU, EEA & other partner European countries could fill the position... by refusing to be involved in FoM post-Brexit, our government has made getting work in the rest of Europe much harder in future, despite the politicians and campaigners now leading us promising that wouldn't be the case back in 2016. The bait and switch lie is complete, and these lying bastards deserve to be removed from office... and they all will be... but only once the damage is irreversible. There is no way to fix this that won't take a decade at least. A generation have their lives curtailed by these liars... and I'm now seeing them as evil, rather than wrong. Rotten to the core.
I've not heard anything about a 'europe first' approach - link?
They have a 'blue card' - their equivalent of the us green card for work purposes.
I can't describe how angry I am with it all. My only hope is Scotland goes and I can get back into the EU via my grandparents. I was 2 generations short for Ireland.
I’ve not heard anything about a ‘europe first’ approach – link?
They are national laws, not EU laws. Which country are you interested in?
[sovereign countries set their own immigration and foreign worker rules non-shocker]
They have a ‘blue card’
Yes, for the "elites"... I've worked with a few blue card holders... they were all absolute geniuses. And I don't just mean double first at Cambridge level genius, well beyond that. Your kids and mine will not be getting one of those (and mine is a straight A* student), they are not available for normal people.
I can’t describe how angry I am with it all. My only hope is Scotland goes and I can get back into the EU via my grandparents.
Me too. Having to dig into family history (Scottish grandfather abandoned my Mum during the war) to see if he now serves a purpose is interesting!
I can’t describe how angry I am with it all. My only hope is Scotland goes and I can get back into the EU via my grandparents.
Just move here (and pay your taxes), then you can vote for independence AND be a Scot when we become independent.
I’ve not heard anything about a ‘europe first’ approach – link?
Many countries (including the UK) don't hand out work permits unless you can prove that no local person can do the job. This is the norm AFAIK except in cases where they want positive immigration.
Just heard Andrew Mitchell Tory MP and ex minister on Radio 2 talking about training African doctors to work in the NHS.
Without a single trace of irony he said that it's our duty to allow those doctors to come to the UK "because otherwise we would be denying them freedom of movement, which is their basic right"
You couldn't make it up.
Are people **** stupid or what? It’s unreal.
I work with a lad whose father voted leave yet spends several months each year living in spain and wants to buy a house there. That is a yard stick for you.
Without a single trace of irony he said that it’s our duty to allow those doctors to come to the UK “because otherwise we would be denying them freedom of movement, which is their basic right
A number of Tory MPs have been Out in the media today, while somehow keeping a straight face, deriding the divisive nature of nationalism.
Brexit is the ultimate example of toxic nationalism. They know that their disaster capitalist dream of No Deal - the very worst outcome imaginable for 99.99999% of us - is as good as nailed on
They’re just trolling us now
eskay: the Costa del Sol is full of those egg and chip eating tw*ts.
“I don’t think anyone really knew what they were voting for” – Brexit voter from my family
Some people did. Just not most of those voting Leave.
Get Ready…
Edit: Link to article deleted, as it’s gone behind a paywall.
Brexit puts way too much milk in his tea.
That's actually really useful, thanks Kelvin.
Amazing how the Nissan news is hardly even news.
