Brexit 2020+

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  • Brexit 2020+
  • Premier Icon TedC
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    Original thread (EU Referendum – are you in or out?) locked on page 1929, how strangely appropriate.

    tjagain
    Member

    I have been baiting remainers on facebook including on the various official pages. It great fun if somewhat petty pointing out Johnson used to be in favour of the EU and that he is an outright racist.

    Petty but amusing

    Premier Icon Drac
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    I pointed out on BBC News Facebook page that passports were black not blue, over 1500 notifications in a few hours. 😂

    Premier Icon cynic-al
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    What was wrong with Molly’s thread?

    Today starts the countdown to Brexit Realisation Day on Jan 1st 2021, unless Boris goes back on his word (again) and extends the transition period.

    Where the Not Alright Jack’s, who voted for Brexit and then didn’t regret their decision over the past ~3.5 years, suddenly realise they’ve commited a slow and painful financial harakiri to themselves and their family/friends/UK.

    Brexit voters and Nigel may have won the battle, but the war is not over, not by a long shot.

    Premier Icon reluctantjumper
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    Got to love the BBC’s attempt at an explainer for what happens next for your holidays abroad. Every single answer is “Between now and December 31st nothing changes. After December nobody knows yet.”

    Yeah, they know what they voted for.

    longdog
    Member

    No fireworks or celebrations that I’m aware of up here in Shetland and no one I know here is a leaver.

    Obviously we’ll be getting an MRI scanner facility delivered on Monday with our new found wealth to save the community continuing to fundraise for it. We will won’t we? 🤔

    Onzadog
    Member

    Original thread (EU Referendum – are you in or out?) locked on page 1929, how strangely appropriate.

    Sorry, I’m going to need a bit of help with that one.

    Premier Icon oldagedpredator
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    The difference, of course, is that the Boaty McBoatface vote was trivial enough to be dismissed, but then-Prime Minister David Cameron had held the Brexit referendum in order to resolve an internecine conflict within his own party, which made that act of voting for the joke option significant enough to trigger a constitutional crisis.

    There’s probably some mileage in – did Simon Cowell kill democracy? Vote now, vote for everything and everywhere.

    The “where’s my elephant?” theory takes it name, of course, from The Simpsons episode in which Bart gets an elephant

    The Monorail one is always a good one for explaining how populism takes hold.

    Premier Icon bruneep
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    What was wrong with Molly’s thread?

    🤷‍♂️ been mentioned before but gets ignored

    mooman
    Member

    According to my dad, there are two major theories of history. The first, the “conspiracy theory,” holds that there exists a shadowy elite behind all the various outrages which constitute the whole grim story of mankind, deliberately manufacturing evil to suit their nefarious designs. The advantage of subscribing to the conspiracy theory is that if you were to find some way of unraveling the conspiracy, you would be able to make everything all better.

    But the second theory, which my dad personally would always say he subscribed to, is the “cock-up theory,” holds that all the bad things that happen are essentially just mistakes: that it is human to err and so, ultimately, nothing can ever really improve. Incremental gains, sure, can sometimes be made, but someone is always bound to cock things up again.

    My dad tended to raise the cock-up theory against my naïve attempts at teenage dinner-table Marxism, since he assumed that any sort of central state intervention — under which he included any attempt to make things better for people using politics — was likely to result in more cock-ups. So I guess the distinction between these two folk historiographies has always bugged me.

    Which is why I’m going to sketch a third one. Call this the “where’s my elephant?” theory of history (I got this phrase from someone who follows me on twitter who goes by “JamesFerraroFan”).

    The “where’s my elephant?” theory takes it name, of course, from The Simpsons episode in which Bart gets an elephant (Season 5, episode 17, to be precise). For those of you who don’t know the episode: Bart wins a radio contest where you have to answer a phone call with the phrase, “KBBL is going to give me something stupid.” That “something stupid” turns out to be either $10,000, or “the gag prize”: a full-grown African elephant. Much to the presenters’ surprise, Bart chooses the elephant — which is a problem for the radio station, since they don’t actually have an elephant to give him. After some attempts at negotiation (the presenters offer Principal Skinner $10,000 to go about with his pants pulled down for the rest of the school year; the presenters offer to use the $10,000 to turn Skinner into “some sort of lobster-like creature”), Bart finds himself kicked out of the radio station, screaming “where’s my elephant?”

    The story is picked up by the news (Kent Brockman: “Isn’t that what we’re all asking in our own lives? Where’s my elephant? I know that’s what I’ve been asking.”), which leads to the presenters being threatened with the loss of their jobs, which leads to them to obtain the elephant for Bart. Bart has won his joke prize, but now he must deal with the joke’s consequences. Predictably, the elephant proves impossible for the Simpson family to keep — it costs them a huge amount of money and does a significant amount of damage to local real estate. In the end, they give the elephant away to an animal sanctuary. A few seasons later (in the episode in which the Simpson family hosts Apu’s wedding in their back garden), Bart is barely able to remember that he even had an elephant at all.

    In short then, the “where’s my elephant?” theory holds the following:

    1) If you give someone a joke option, they will take it.

    2) The joke option is a (usually) a joke option for a reason, and choosing it will cause everyone a lot of problems.

    3) In time, the joke will stop being funny, and people will just sort of lose interest in it.

    4) No one ever learns anything.

    So what evidence is there that the question “where’s my elephant?” has somehow been in the background throughout the history of our species, the driving force behind all human events?

    Well, here’s one somewhat news-relevant example: On Friday, the UK will officially leave the European Union. In a sense, this event will conclude the almost four years of political turmoil that have raged in my home country following the June 2016 Brexit referendum. But of course “in a sense” is doing quite a bit of heavy lifting here. In truth, the agreement to withdraw passed by Boris Johnson’s government only really settles a few formalities about what will happen the day the UK ceases to be an EU member state, with much of Britain’s future relationship with Europe still to be agreed upon (questions of how trade will work, how the borders will work, etc.). Given the difficulties still to come, it is no surprise that the conservative Tory party — which most recently campaigned on a platform of pretty well ending Brexit, and indeed politics in general, forever — have moved to ban the word “Brexit” after January 31. Brexit will remain with us — and yet, even as it continues to happen, it will be forced into feeling like a distant memory, the after-image of some unpleasantness we no longer wish even to understand.

    And perhaps it was the same with Boaty McBoatface. In hindsight, everyone should have always known that people were going to vote for Brexit — because a few months before the referendum, a poll to name a new vessel owned by the British National Environment Research Council was topped, following a social media campaign, by the suggestion “Boaty McBoatface”. In the end though, the public were denied the opportunity to call a research vessel something manifestly very silly, with the then-Science Minister Jo Johnson (Boris’s centrist, anti-Brexit brother) intervening to ensure that the boat would be called “RRS Sir David Attenborough.” “Boaty McBoatface” still became the name of something — but only one of Attenborough’s remote-controlled submersibles. As with Brexit, the Boaty McBoatface poll saw the public voting en masse for the joke option, the option no-one ever expected them to choose — in part, one suspects, simply because the people in charge had not thought to plan for what would happen if they did so.

    The difference, of course, is that the Boaty McBoatface vote was trivial enough to be dismissed, but then-Prime Minister David Cameron had held the Brexit referendum in order to resolve an internecine conflict within his own party, which made that act of voting for the joke option significant enough to trigger a constitutional crisis.
    Just contributing my bit to the Loony Thread part 2.
    I have cut & pasted what has been added on page one in true echo chamber tradition of the pre-Brexit Loony Thread.

    avdave2
    Member

    A land in which moderators did what you all agreed you wanted to do in the previous 2000-page thread

    I’m afraid I’d stopped reading that hate speech outlet, an explanation for those of us who could no longer face reading it would have helped.I’ll post here what I said on that one

    More money into hating each other, nowhere near enough of that going on.

    We have this appalling situation now where it seems many of those who wanted to leave think that everything will magically happen without them doing anything and can see no downsides and those who wanted to remain who seem actively to want disaster because being right is all that matters.

    It looks hopeless but I don’t think it is. If we can look at one thing from recent history that gives hope to mankind it’s the Truth and Reconciliation program from South Africa. I can think of little in my 54 years on the planet to equal it. Sure South Africa did and still has it’s issues but it could have been so much worse but for the bravery and magnanimity of  people on both sides of what seemed an insurmountable divide. So I’d like to see money put into that. I’ve always been a remainer but I am really disturbed by some of the hate directed at those who think differently from me. If the hate continues we will all lose.

    As Auden said, before changing it because it seemed illogical “We must love each other or die”

    Spend the money on love, people on here have very different views but I know those wouldn’t matter one bit if someone needed help. Just look at the support this place gives to anyone who needs it. If you end up doing well out of Brexit then share your good fortune with those who will undoubtedly suffer.

    And apologies for the touchy feely crap if it offends you I’ve been on the port and it has the habit of bringing out the person I’d like to be.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
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    Hmmm how’s the independence going 🙂

    Premier Icon sc-xc
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    Mooman…that was posted on p1

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    Mooman was trying to be ironic or something

    Anything to avoid scrutiny of the Brexit shitshow we have to look forward to for the next decade of divisive & poisonous debate on the much tougher & more complex future relationship

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
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    I’m sure the air is sweeter this morning.
    My energy is cheaper, my salary is going up, and them kippers at breakfast are only from UK waters and a UK boat.
    Oh.
    Wait.
    🦄

    I have been baiting remainers on facebook including on the various official pages. It great fun if somewhat petty pointing out Johnson used to be in favour of the EU and that he is an outright racist.

    Eh?

    Premier Icon sc-xc
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    Mooman was trying to be ironic or something

    On yeah. I forgot it was him.

    Premier Icon richardkennerley
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    Today starts the countdown to Brexit Realisation Day on Jan 1st 2021,
    Brexit voters and Nigel may have won the battle, but the war is not over, not by a long shot.

    I suspect it really is.

    I think for the vast majority of the population (no matter how it affects them behind the scenes) Brexit is over now. It will become an increasingly boring and small story on the news and no matter what happens at the end of the transition period, no matter how bad the deal is, no matter what lies may or may not be told, most people will shrug their shoulders and not give a sh1t.

    Ewan
    Member

    The only thing to look forward to as far as I can see, is when people start saying “but no one voted for this”, I can laugh and say – “yes they did, they literally did, twice”

    Premier Icon igm
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    31/01/2020 – or as it should be known surrender day, when Britain finally accepted it wasn’t big enough to hold its own in a club made up of international heavyweight countries.

    Never mind, we’ll be rejoining in a bit.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    I think the argument that the Elephant will be slowly forgotten has some merit. Those clambering for it don’t really know why they want it, so won’t really be looking for what happens because of it.

    Anyway… this loser sums it up perfectly for me…

    Premier Icon reluctantjumper
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    If you want to have a little giggle out of all of this have a listen to the first 3 minutes of Graham Norton’s Radio 2 show from today. The choice of opening words (all 3 of them) and his opening song choice is genius 😁

    Premier Icon bruneep
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    yes had a wee chuckle to myself whilst pottering in kitchen.

    Premier Icon binners
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    unless Boris goes back on his word (again) and extends the transition period

    As with so many things with this whole sorry saga, the worst has happened because successive politicians painted themselves into a corner. Theresa May did it from the off, and in doing so left herself with no wiggle room to negotiate, as she had to satisfy the hardliners whose rhetoric she’d shamelesslessly pandered too to keep herself in power

    Boris, with his bluster and bravado, has just done exactly the same. Don’t forget… his paymasters have no fear of a no deal Brexit. They’ll do fine out of that. I can’t see anything other than that at the end of the year. Any successful negotiations will involve compromise, but Boris is still going with his ridiculous’cake and eat it’ narrative. This won’t survive contact with the real world, when the reality of just how weak our position is becomes glaringly apparent once the real negotiations start.

    At that point calm compromise would be the wise thing to do. But the flag-waving no surrender narrative they’ve already written means this is impossible.

    So a no deal crash out is the only option. Its inevitable. Always was. We merely put it off for a bit. Because the vision they peddled is simply undeliverable.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Look how happy the winners are:

    Who’d be a journalist (a real one) in this decade?

    Premier Icon binners
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    Looks like Mr Cummmings is finally having the realisation that Johnson and Gove had the morning after the referendum…

    Shit just got real

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Going to be interesting what happens next. It’s true the UK is a big economy and provides a lot of opportunity for businesses in Europe and around the world to make lots of money. It’s also true that there is a huge amount of historical antipathy towards the UK around the world, and I for one think this will be the dominant factor in what happens next. The EU have a clear vested interest (as we all pointed out 3 years ago) to make sure we suffer as much as possible. The US has never given a shit about us and sees us in the same way that a vulture looks at a dead animal. The rest of the world? Well we don’t have many friends given our relatively recent history of rampaging around the world, killing their people and stealing their wealth.

    And I hope this all plays out as I think it will. I’ve always despised this country with an almost unhealthy passion, especially the knuggledragging flagwavers who were out in force last night, and I really hope the rest of the world gives these people what they deserve. And even though it will drag the rest of us down with them, it’ll be worth it to see them put in their place. Much like my feelings about the wonderful northern working class following the election, I’m done with trying to understand or empathise with them. They can all go and **** themselves.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    The good news is the extra £50 million a day the NHS is going to get.
    Boris promised.
    Oh….

    PJM1974
    Member

    We don’t have any laws in Britain apparently: https://twitter.com/changed_gear/status/1223532581989371904?s=21

    And our laws come from Germany:

    tjagain
    Member

    Nobeer – stupidity on my behalf I have been baiting brexiteers!

    Premier Icon Sandwich
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    Sorry, I’m going to need a bit of help with that one.

    A lot of people lost a lot of money in a world recession that only stopped after we had killed an awful lot of people.

    Premier Icon pondo
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    If you want to have a little giggle out of all of this have a listen to the first 3 minutes of Graham Norton’s Radio 2 show from today. The choice of opening words (all 3 of them) and his opening song choice is genius 😁

    Brilliant. 😀

    tjagain
    Member

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2inHcW4]18033482_10154996306780236_6957278123713435254_n[/url] by TandemJeremy, on Flickr

    PJM1974
    Member

    Much like my feelings about the wonderful northern working class following the election, I’m done with trying to understand or empathise with them. They can all go and **** themselves.

    However tempting it is to feel that way, the whole point of this has been to create lasting division. We’re talking about people who’ve been highly politicised, but who have absolutely no idea why they’re angry.

    Premier Icon AD
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    Not all of us northern denizens voted leave… Or for the tories either! 🙂

    Premier Icon Drac
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    What was wrong with Molly’s thread?

    been mentioned before but gets ignored

    Page 1

    A land in which moderators did what you all agreed you wanted to do in the previous 2000-page thread. I mean, I literally clock-watched to set this up despite spending half of this week in the hospital with bugger all sleep for the last two days.

    I appreciate that ‘doing what you say you’re going to do’ is a bit of an alien concept in brexitworld, but still.

    There’s probably a metaphor here, or something. I’m too tired to care, goodnight.

    PJM1974
    Member

    Nothing is keeping you here, so why not go & live in another country then?

    Because Brexit has taken away our freedom of movement, I guess.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    What was wrong with my thread? I asked people not to whinge on it – that was probably it 😉

    I’m seeing a lot of highly divisive Scottish posts on my FB that are basically stuff the knuckle dragging rUK only we progressive Scots are true Europeans. Er.. hold on a minute…

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