Brexit 2020+

As long as those that voted for it have a fish, blue passport of The Bus of Lies tattooed across their foreheads I’ll be happy. They’ll also be the first ones to get fired off when businesses have to downsize.

Proper little echo chamber in here…

There’s always Twitter if you fancied something a bit more ‘YOU LOST!! GET OVER IT!!!!’

In other ‘Sunlit Uplands’ news, looks like as well as abandoning hope of an EU Trade Deal Today, we’ve lost any hope of another one too. The one that was going to save our economy.

UK abandons hope of US trade deal by end of year

Oh well. I’m sure everything will work out ok

@dougiedogg

Is this the Brexit you wanted then?

Proper little echo chamber in here…

Please add your (positive?) Brexspective, I for one am desperate for some good news.

No because N.Ireland is basically remaining in. I dont believe in all the doom and gloom peddled in here though, STW suffers from an anti-Tory bias and as such you lot only seem to search for things to confirm your fears.

Try searching for it Malvern? As I mentioned, confirmation bias. You lot can at least change the government of the country in the next election, as a resident of N.I I have no such ability.

That’s interesting, how would you have NI leave the EU without breaking the GFA then?

STW suffers from an anti-Tory bias and as such you lot only seem to search for things to confirm your fears.

You don’t have to do much searching when The Torygraph itself, the last bastion of Brexit, is informing us that we’ll be crashing out with no deal in December, with all the catastrophic economic implications that involves

Do feel free to provide us with balance in the form of some great Brexit news? Maybe something about the colour of passports?

feel free to provide us with balance in the form of some great Brexit news?

The answer was ‘no’. I actually agree with douggiedogg, it is an ‘echo-chamber’. I genuinely fear though that it’s an ‘echo-chamber‘ because no-one has any Brevidence to the contrary.

As I mentioned, confirmation bias.

Again, completely agree. At the start of all this I was heavily biased against the main agitators and actors involved. Biased too against their motives. Confirmations of my predictions/expectations and worst fears have arrived on schedule for the last half a decade.

You lot can at least change the government of the country in the next election, as a resident of N.I I have no such ability.

Tories will win. No question. Getting it done. Also, how would a change of Government change what has now been ripped up? The country is torn asunder. Tell me it ain’t so?

Proper little echo chamber in here…

Give us the good news we’re missing then… please.

Theres no Brevidence because it hasn’t happened yet, its all speculation still. Thats why I made my comment about STW being an echo chamber of negative views about Brexit, the only substance I see here is anti-Tory speculation.

On N.I, there is no solution to the GFA other than the one which has been adopted, I didn’t say there was.

On the subject of the country being torn asunder, yes possibly, but I think devolution has had as much of an impact on that as Brexit.

So, give us the positive “views”, or even better… positive news.

Being repeatedly lied to then having all the things you were called a traitor for predicting come true after all tends to give one a certain cynicism. Weird eh.

the only substance I see here is anti-Tory speculation.

The anti-Tory speculation of the front page of that well-known left-wing mouthpiece the Daily Telegraph?

Yes, they’re renowned for their hostility toward both Boris Johnson and Brexit, aren’t they?

Even they can’t scrape together anything positive to say about the upcoming disaster

You don’t have to do much searching when The Torygraph itself, the last bastion of Brexit, is informing us that we’ll be crashing out with no deal* in December

Telegraph? You need the Daily Express upyer.

SWYDT? You’re making it sound as if ‘no deal’ = a bad/undesirable thing.

I dont take my opinions from any newspapers folks.

The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.

Saved this page so that we can reflect back on it when the good news arrives.

I dont take my opinions from any newspapers folks

Where do you get your positive news from, and could you please save us from our echo chamber by sharing it with us? Please. We genuinely want to hear it. Brexit has happened. The transition period now has an unmovable end date. We can’t seek to stop either. So, hearing good news related to either would be genuinely welcome.

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EDIT… …to reply to the edit….

The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.

You do know the “EU system” still exists? This is like not sending MPs to Westminster anymore… and so claiming to be free from the effects of the decisions that continue to be made there… hint… we’re not… and if you live in Northern Ireland, especially are not.

I dont take my opinions from any newspapers folks

Online then? Again, would really appreciate a pointer

The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.

Gotta say, you’re the first person in Ireland I’ve ever come across who’s in favour of handing absolute unbridled power to the English government.

Pro-Brexit opinion:

Theres no Brevidence because it hasn’t happened yet, it’s still all specualation

Biased STW ‘echo-chamber’ opinion:

Brexit has happened. The transition period now has an unmovable end date.

Oh my head.

I thought it was the UK government?

Sorry Malvern, but as far as I was aware negotiations (possibly limited as they are) where still ongoing? Therefore nothing has actually happened yet?

As for the NHS being sold off, when I go for my CT scans its with a private company through the NHS, So my question is, has privitisation not already happened and why is it such a bad thing? Tax payers do actually pay for the NHS.

Therefore nothing has actually happened yet?

So, on that basis, if you go and stand in the middle of the road and a car is heading straight for you at 70mph, then that’s all fine because technically nothing has actually happened yet?

We havent agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is travelling in

I’m yet to see one benefit of Brexit so far, and I have seen no information out there that says once we are truly free from the EU these will be the list of benefits & they outweigh the list of negatives because of X, Y, Z.
Say for example there is a benefit – a real benefit that will affect people in a positive way; not just words like sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats etc. That/those benefits have to outweigh all of the bad things Brexit has done, to make them worthwhile.

I have taken much more interest in politics over the last 5 years or so but still consider myself pretty naive to the workings of political systems, motives, integration with the EU etc. There is a lot to learn.
But, from my layman point of view we seem to have lost (and please correct me if I am wrong because I probably am in some aspects):
– ERASMUS
– E111 health card
– Pet passports
– Simple foreign holidays (as in, no need to worry about visas, passports being valid for 6 months+ etc)
– Driving in Europe – will we need an international driving permit?
– Galileo
– access to Europol; no confirmation as of yet that I have seen we will still have access to Europol data & resources

Plus
– it seems likely we will need to pay more for things if we order from Europe because of import duty/tariffs
– customs paperwork seems to be going up massively (weren’t we supposed to be getting rid of unnecessary red tape?) for most businesses
– the cost of customs officials to administer all of this on an on-going basis has been estimated at £1.5bn (for an estimate of 50,000 people to administer all the required paperwork).

If someone could argue that yes, we do lose those things but we gain so many other things & quantify in real terms what they are I would perhaps change my viewpoint. But, I have not seen any ‘good’ things yet.

We haven’t agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is traveling in

Oh yes we have. We’re both very much in the same lane, and the UK is the rabbit in the headlights to the EU’s juggernaut.

Much as they keep trying to rebrand it with all their ‘Australian Style Deal’ bollocks, everyone knows that that means No Deal.

And even the most hardcore Brexiteer always assured us that no deal definitely wouldn’t be happening, because that would be financially catastrophic for the UK.

We havent agreed which lane we are standing in and which lane the car is travelling in

Right. Stop and think for a second about what you just wrote there.

Binners’ example was for you to go stand in the middle of the M6 and your immediate response is “which lane?” rather than getting the **** over to the hard shoulder and diving behind the Armco tout suite.

As brexit analogies go, it’s one of the better ones I’ve seen recently.

What does the armco signify?

The good news for me, the UK gets to remove one level of governance from the council < devolved < westminister < EU system.

Hmm. I some sympathy for that position, I was never in favour of devolution, but if it’s here, really the English should also have their own parliament.
Unfortunately what we’re heading for will make the breakup of the UK much more likely, and I suspect Dougie, a United Ireland much more likely too. So it rather looks like you at least won’t be getting rid of the EU any time soon. Sorry about that.

sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats

Some would say these are benefits

No more unelected bureaucrats… when do we get that one?

And again, decisions made jointly at the EU level will still effect us all, and if you’re in Northern Island you especially, but we no longer have representation or a role there in the council of ministers, the courts, the parliament… etc.

I’m yet to see one benefit of Brexit so far

We get our sovereignty back that we never lost and they don’t know what the word means anyway but it sounds important.

It would be undemocratic not to, if we redefine democracy as pandering to a tiny majority and attempting to silence anyone who disagrees.

Brussels won’t be telling us what to do any more, neatly overlooking the fact that UK MEPs made up fully one tenth of the European Parliament and in a very real sense we told them what to do.

We don’t want unelected bureaucrats, so we’ll presumably be sacking the civil service next year too.

We get control of our borders that we already had control of.

We can reduce red tape by doing loads of admin work ourselves that we previously palmed off onto central resources so we didn’t have to.

We can, obviously, strike better trade deals with the trading clout of a country of one rather than that of 28. It’s well documented that Dave’s Mini-Mart gets superior prices at the distributor than Tesco which is why everyone does their monthly shop there.

We get our ‘iconic’ blue passports back that we could have changed at any time, replacing the burgundy that we chose with the blue that was imposed on us by the League of Nations.

Let’s give more money to the NHS! We’re not actually going to, but let’s!

One I heard just today, there’s a housing crisis. Because, erm, the EU mandates that we can’t build houses?

Something about fish that no-one gave two shits about until it came to light as a potentially handy argument. MOAR HERRING!

Have I missed anything?

As for the NHS being sold off, when I go for my CT scans its with a private company through the NHS, So my question is, has privitisation not already happened and why is it such a bad thing? Tax payers do actually pay for the NHS.

That’s a great question but certainly needs a thread of it’s own. Maybe (and I mean this kindly) have a step out of your own ‘echo-chamber‘/look at some differing/wider evidence, then begin a thread about the subject? I’d be happy to contribute as the matter has and continues to have an enormous and now inescapable effect on my life and that of my family and I care that it doesn’t happen to others/improves rather than gets worse. Recommend to give this a watch:

sovereignty, taking back control, making our own decisions, no more unelected bureaucrats

Some would say these are benefits

Not sure if serious. But let’s do these one at a time.

So where are all these trade deals that the world was supposed to be queueing up to sign?
We’ve got five months, oh yeah, it was all bollocks wasn’t it.

No more unelected bureaucrats…

Hi…

Some would say these are benefits

Yes, we know these people as ‘morons’

Unfortunately what we’re heading for will make the breakup of the UK much more likely, and I suspect Dougie, a United Ireland much more likely too. So it rather looks like you at least won’t be getting rid of the EU any time soon. Sorry about that

I dont see a UI in my lifetime, I cant see it happening without a devolved government in the north anyway. I do agree N.I will most likely remain under EU regs after the 5 year period.

I do agree N.I will most likely remain under EU regs after the 5 year period.

Yet another thing to add to the list of things we were solemnly promised by the Brexiteers would absolutely, definitely not be happening

I believe Boris’s exact words were “no British Prime Minister would ever agree to do such a thing”

About five minutes before he did indeed agree to do such a thing