BBC bias – Scottish independence content

.scotroutes – Member
SD-253 » .scotroutes – Member
VAT? how will extra VAT come into it. No country in the world charges VAT or the equivalent on goods they export. Somebody needs a bit of bog standard financial knowledge.
He said “import” though?
Bencooper – Member
That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive.

. Have I got you right saying that England will put import duty on EU goods of 20%. Ludicrous and illegal.

.Bencooper – Member
That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive.

How? This looks like scaremongering to me. Poorly thought out scaremongering.

Am I going to have to re-quote the whole post to you or do you want to back and re-read it?

bencooper – Member
But there’s a big risk in staying in the Union as well. Specifically for me, the risk is that the UK (dominated by the English vote) votes to get out of the EU. That would immediately make most things I import about 20% more expensive (and add lots of hassle) and also affect all my exports to Europe.

How does goods imported from EU become 20% more expensive?? Now possible that you could answer that?

Because
You
Would
Have
To
Pay
VAT
On
Them
If
We
Were
Not
In
The
EU
!!

Scotsroutes – I don’t think you understand how intra-community VAT triangulation works…

How would it be intra-community if we weren’t in the EU?

If you understood how VAT currently worked, then you wouldn’t have to ask that question

Lets explain it this way

You
pay
VAT
on
everything
taxable
that
you
buy

The only difference is when you pay it, and how you reclaim it

Some are reasoning that we should be independent as the English are likely to take us out of the EU. I don’t think that will happen even under a CMD led government. Cameron does not want to leave the EU, and it may come as a surprise to some, but the EU does not want the UK to leave As far as I am concerned. That being the case I can see concessions to the UK that make staying in more palletable to voters in an in out referendum.
In previous threads some yes supporters have joked about rUK leaving the EU in a “don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out” kind of way. If rUK does leave the EU, it will be a significantly weaker union an iScotland wishes to join.

Also, the whole view of Scotland not influencing elections as something to get annoyed about seems a bit daft to me. Of course it doesn’t. Yorkshire has a population of 5 million. I never heard anyone from Leeds say Yorkshire should dictate election results.

Finally, on immigration, it is a bit saddening to think your own Newcastle born spouse becomes an immigration statistic in iScotland to be touted in future by our dear leader as an example how welcoming Scotland is to those of different nationalities and cultures. Our offspring are a shining example of how Scotland can truly be a multicultural and diverse nation.

I never heard anyone from Leeds say Yorkshire should dictate election results.

Pffft, buggers complain about everything else. And they’ve got massive chips on their shoulders about their “homeland”

Post meant in jest

Largely

Also, the whole view of Scotland not influencing elections as something to get annoyed about seems a bit daft to me. Of course it doesn’t. Yorkshire has a population of 5 million. I never heard anyone from Leeds say Yorkshire should dictate election results.

Couple of weeks back was at one of the GFs friends. She was complaining vigorously about the London centric news, and during the London centric weather forecast I suggested she change the channel from BBC London.

🙂

Athgray youused a key word at the end there nation. Scots joined the union as a nation. Comparison with regions towns cities are not valid as you’re not comparing like with like.
Sd-253 you’ll find that yes supporters have discussed many policies on many threads you might remember eu membership or nuclear disarmament. ..ask thm
So sd -253 you are wrong …

To be clear Athgray I do not mean that Scots /Scotland have a right to detemine every election when they are part of a union with other nations. I am saying that when they have consistently voted differently from other parts of the union they have as a nation the right to say “we have considered this for a while now the union is not working for us and we want out”
For what it’s worth I think the peoples of other areas in the UK also have right to quit the union or change the union . How they go about it l think looks much more difficult than it might be for a nation.

I see where you are coming from gordimhor.Luckily I was not around 300 years ago so don’t feel the overwhelming pride in being just Scottish. Not particularly proud of the UK either. I feel lucky to have the Highlands close at hand to partake in hobbies I enjoy.

Don’t have a strong sense nationhood towards Scotland. More regional I suppose. Frankly I find the whole Saltire waving this is my country show a bit embarrassing.

You talk of never getting the government Scotland voted for. 1997-2010?

It’s also worth pointing out that the way most people in England vote is irrelevant too.

With the Westminster system, the whole game is decided by a relatively small number of floating voters in a few marginal constituencies, so the opinions of most people don’t matter.

they have as a nation the right to say “we have considered this for a while now the union is not working for us and we want out”

But that isn’t the deal you signed, was it?

shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom

97-2010 well Scots and the rest of the UK voted them in….but really New Labour didn’t do what it said on the tin. That led to a lot of the current deep disillusionment with all politics imo.New Labour, Libdems, Tories are as Scotroutes said “three cheeks of the same arse” 🙂
edit added in “imo”

No ninfan , but then again 307 years ago I didn’t have a vote, I would have been one of the rioters in Edinburgh at the time. 😈

You may well have been a rioter, but penny to a pound of shite that Salmond would have been somewhere with William Paterson making themselves scarce after selling one way tickets to the Isthmuth of Panama 😀

I’ve got a 1699 book called “A Defence of the Scots Settlement at Darien” – it’s basically one long whine to the king about what a dump Darien is and how the English, French and Spanish (and the natives) are picking on them 😉

Going by all I have read about Darien it would have been a good place to send all the politicians who were found guilty of fiddling their expenses.

http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/
Back on topic . Former BBC man Derek Batemans blog

I do not trust one single politician. regardless which country they are from.
I would guarantee you that alex salmond is just out to make a name for himself and to ultimately line his own pockets. just like blair witch, cameron and that other **** whose name escapes me right now (labour leader)

matay – Member
…I would guarantee you that alex salmond is just out to make a name for himself and to ultimately line his own pockets…

And your factual basis for that?

no factual basis what so ever… just over 30 years of witnessing the selfish greed of EVERY politician that has ever held a position of power!
full of promises BEFORE they get there, then lies, backtracks and cover ups from then on.
blair was the peoples champion when he was campaigning, anti tory, labour through and through. shirt sleeves rolled up. common background just like the rest of us!! bullsheet.
cameron did the same and miliband is again pumping out the same crap!
they ALL went to the same schools and ALL have the same values and agenda.
mr salmond is playing on the scottish peoples anger against ENGLISH govern…. but I guarentee you, a large majority of english people have that same anger.
as I said, I do not trust ANY one politician. they are all one and the same.

they ALL went to the same schools and ALL have the same values and agenda.

Alex Salmond went to Linlithgow Academy – not exactly an elite place of learning (sorry, Linlithgow).

Just saying.

matay – Member
…mr salmond is playing on the scottish peoples anger against ENGLISH govern…

I think you have that wrong.

It’s not anger, it’s a realisation the system is broken.

One thing many Scots dislike intensely is that the highest tier of government is unelected. For democracy’s sake it’s about time the House of Lords was removed.

The most heavily populated part of the UK is in the SE, so any government of the UK is going to have to be SE centric at the expense of the peripheral parts.

What is appropriate there is not necessarily so for the rest of the country. Regional England suffers many of the same problems as the Scots. as the black hole of London sucks the resources out of the rest of the country.

The difference is, that as a nation that is party to the Union, Scotland can do something about it and leave.

Hopefully our departure may lead to Westminster devolving more government powers to the regions so each can have the appropriate policies for their needs.

I’m convinced the north of England would blossom again if there was a federated system of government that devolved powers to the regions.

What is appropriate there is not necessarily so for the rest of the country. Regional England suffers many of the same problems as the Scots. as the black hole of London sucks the resources out of the rest of the country.

One telling statistic is to look at public transport investment per head of population:

London: £2000 per person per annum
North-East: £2 per person per annum

The Crossrail project alone – a 26-mile train line serving part of London – is costing more than half Scotland’s entire yearly budget for everything.

I’m convinced the north of England would blossom again if there was a federated system of government that devolved powers to the regions.

I’m not.

Maybe if the changes of the 70’s and 80’s had been handled differently then it could of been different.

Genuine question – What could you do now to greatly change things?

I can’t see how another level of government would help and that was rejected in the NE by a public vote in the 90’s.

The manufacturing base is gone, the steel and coal is gone. They are so far gone that it would be almost impossible to bring it back.

Also, you used the expression “blossom”. When was this? In the 50’s and 60’s when Teeside was covered in a blanket of chemical smog? In the 1930’s when fatal accidents at work were common and people were starving?In the 1970’s when there were constant strikes?

Rose tinted spectacles?

One telling statistic is to look at public transport investment per head of population:

London: £2000 per person per annum
North-East: £2 per person per annum

The Crossrail project alone – a 26-mile train line serving part of London – is costing more than half Scotland’s entire yearly budget for everything.

Hmmm, given the overspend on the Edinburgh Tram construction, I wouldn’t say that public transport spend is too trusty a brickbat to start throwing around 😉

Yeah, that’s a total balls-up, but Edinburgh isn’t in the North-East of England 😉

The point is still the same, though – huge amounts of public money is spent in London compared to the regions.

I think you have that wrong.

It’s not anger, it’s a realisation the system is broken.

Indeed, and an almost total lack of will at Westminster to do anything about it.

One thing many Scots dislike intensely is that the highest tier of government is unelected. For democracy’s sake it’s about time the House of Lords was removed.

The most heavily populated part of the UK is in the SE, so any government of the UK is going to have to be SE centric at the expense of the peripheral parts.

What is appropriate there is not necessarily so for the rest of the country. Regional England suffers many of the same problems as the Scots. as the black hole of London sucks the resources out of the rest of the country.

The difference is, that as a nation that is party to the Union, Scotland can do something about it and leave.

Hopefully our departure may lead to Westminster devolving more government powers to the regions so each can have the appropriate policies for their needs.

Pretty much nails it for me. I’ve never been a flag waver, never felt any genuine affinity with being ‘British’ any very little with being ‘English’ which probably makes my choice of vote a whole lot easier.

I care little from where I’m governed, it’s what that governance does that concerns me. As much of a slippery turd AS can be, I’m not voting for him and even if I was. He’s still better than than CMD or anything that looks likely to rise in Westminster.

Oh, its not – but just demonstrating that a simple measure of ‘expenditure per head’ doesn’t necessarily lead you down the path of enlightenment – like Scotland, most of the NE of England is fairly sparsely populated, the problem is for public transport is generally one of viability due to under use, rather than congestion, so capital/infrastructure spend is fairly irrelevant.

London: £2000 per person per annum
North-East: £2 per person per annum

What do you mean by the NE?

Considering that Northumberland and Durham are 2 of the least densely populated areas in England it’s not that surprising. Not much point in building a “Metro” for Wooler or Stanhope is there?

Tyne and Wear actually have a very good public transport system and has had a great deal of investment in it over the years.

Ben, but he (AS) did go to the UKs finest Uni after that. Shame he doesn’t use that education more wisely 😉

Winston_dog – Probably Englands most remote bus stop:

winston_dog – Member
“I’m convinced the north of England would blossom again if there was a federated system of government that devolved powers to the regions.”

…The manufacturing base is gone, the steel and coal is gone. They are so far gone that it would be almost impossible to bring it back.

Also, you used the expression “blossom”. When was this? In the 50’s and 60’s when Teeside was covered in a blanket of chemical smog? In the 1930’s when fatal accidents at work were common and people were starving?In the 1970’s when there were constant strikes?

Rose tinted spectacles?

Why would they go back to the past?

Are you saying the people in the north of England are too dumb to come up with solutions if they had more self-government and the power to something about it?

As far as the arguments about another layer of government, that’s easily solved. Get rid of a parasitic level (House of Lords), and you have room for regional government.

But anyway, that’s a problem for you English to solve. We’ll be cheering you on from beyond the wall. 🙂

winston_dog – Member

The manufacturing base is gone

don’t believe this ^.