At the current rate of deterioration in the global weather systems patterns!

Thing is there are actaully far more interesting and weird theories out there that have some actual basis in science

Give Holographic Principle a try.

There is plenty of stuff to debate without just randomly throwing about words like “stellar”, “cosmic” and “forces”

To be fair ‘grips, I seem to remember a similar thread a couple of years ago where someone who had an idea about the way light travels through glass got a roasting from you and a couple of others.

I don’t really remember, but I do try in general (and always have as an adult) to restrict my piss taking to light ribbing. I don’t like to properly attack people, although sometimes I am misinterpreted.

I don’t think Kaesae is trying to tell us that silly things are actually true though, despite how it appears.

I don’t think he knows much about science or how to think about things scientifically, but he’s admitted that several times. With that in mind, I can’t see how he’s trying to persuade us of any facts.

I don’t think Kaesae is trying to tell us that silly things are actually true though, despite how it appears.

I don’t think he knows much about science or how to think about things scientifically, but he’s admitted that several times. With that in mind, I can’t see how he’s trying to persuade us of any facts.

Agree and agree.

I just felt the tone of the thread had swung from gentle ribbing/massively patronising to bit more like bullying. Which I didn’t think was fair.

I have proposed a possible alternative cause for what is happening to this world and solar system.

what?

…to restrict my piss taking to light ribbing

…for their pleasure.

well he is a giver

It doens’t look like Kaesae is trying to tell you stuff, he’s outlining how he sees it and is inviting you to discuss it further. Taking the pee isn’t helping. It only seems to serve to amuse you at someone else’s expense. This I do not like.

Ripping the pish out of stupid people isn’t big or clever.
It is fun though, and I would just like to thank kaesae for his sterling work in providing such a large and slow moving target

kaesae – Member

The aim of my research is to learn and understand, who gives a shit about being right or wrong?
genius

The aim of my research is to learn and understand, who gives a shit about being right or wrong?

The stupidity of this statement is quite frankly staggering.

You call what you are doing “research”

And yet you say you don’t give a shit wether it is right or wrong.

If thats the case, seriously, what you are doing is not “Research” of any kind.

It just called “reading random stuff online”

Dumbledore is a liar.

It was Yoda that said that !

Dumbledore is a liar.
It was Yoda that said that !

Level 1 😀

The aim of my research is to learn and understand, who gives a shit about being right or wrong?

If we go into a situation and learn all that we can, is that not the best way to ensure we get the most out of each situation?

Right and wrong is simply the way fools perceive the world, when you go down the right and wrong, winner or loser road, all you get is egotism fueled idiocy and games of the mind that have no real world benefits!

I suggest you try that process while researching more efficient explosives, for example. Trying the wrong route might have a spectacularly wrong result.
I have a genuine feeling that you would be much happier sat in a cave somewhere with some acolytes reciting koans to them and challenging them on their answers.
Seriously, no piss-taking, what you seem to be looking for is a state of enlightenment that you will probably never achieve by just looking at everything in scientific terms.
Taoism may get you further than STWism.

How about if we forget all of the other parts of this thread and say that they were a means by which we could all express ourselves and agree on how we should behave if we want to achieve a stable environment that could potentially lead to progress in researching this?

I have some questions for anyone really but in particular anyone with an understanding of geology.

Is there any body of work that has recorded or indexed signs of excessive flooding around the world left on rock formations?

Also is there any anthropological studies that have focused on mass migrations of humans and their causes?

Is there any other ways that anyone can think of to identify areas of flooding on a large scale?

Also is there any kind of record left in rocks or ancient tree’s or anything else for us to be able to evaluate rain fall in certain areas around the world at different periods in history?

Is there any body of work that has recorded or indexed signs of excessive flooding around the world left on rock formations?

It’s widely studied. Geologists are always looking for such evidence, it tells all sorts of stories about what’s happened in the past. There was an absolutely gigantic flood event covering half the US Mid-West in one big flood at some point many thousands of years ago, there was a Horizon about it I think.

Also is there any anthropological studies that have focused on mass migrations of humans and their causes?

Er yeah, that seems to be a major topic of anthropology research.

Is there any other ways that anyone can think of to identify areas of flooding on a large scale?

There are loads. Sediment layers are a big one.

Also is there any kind of record left in rocks or ancient tree’s or anything else for us to be able to evaluate rain fall in certain areas around the world at different periods in history?

Afaik they do this by looking at distribution of tiny animals and stuff like plant pollen, to identify what was living at a particular spot and thence conclude what the conditions were like.

You need to get yourself down the bookshop, the popular science section, and have a look for books on these subjects. It’s all out there.

EDIT not the mid-west, the northwest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_Floods That’s the one I was thinking of. However there are more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outburst_flood

Is there any body of work that has recorded or indexed signs of excessive flooding around the world left on rock formations?

It’s widely studied. Geologists are always looking for such evidence, it tells all sorts of stories about what’s happened in the past. There was an absolutely gigantic flood event covering half the US Mid-West in one big flood at some point many thousands of years ago, there was a Horizon about it I think.

Yeah possibly the largest flood ever known, carved vast canyons in as little as week.

You might also want to take a look at the history of the mediteranean sea. Its been a dry valley rather than a sea at least once in its history. The opening of the straights of Gibraltar and the flooding of the mediteranean is belived to be the foundation of the biblical deluge story.

The opening of the straights of Gibraltar and the flooding of the mediteranean is belived to be the foundation of the biblical deluge story

Yeah although I think that people are looking to find origins where there aren’t necessarily any at all. The biblical flood story could have been entirely made up, and the fact that most cultures have a similar stories, even ones that didn’t grow up anywhere near the Med.

Looks like large scale flooding is a common occurrence and happens regularly, how much of the polar ice caps have melted and do we know where the water from them is likely to be deposited?

Looks like large scale flooding is a common occurrence and happens regularly

Yep. No sign of those “several world floods” that are “part of a cycle that our planet goes through regularly” though?

Hmmm…

I take it I should feel impressed with your response or put off perhaps from posting by the general consensus that I am an idiot for voicing my thoughts, just for the record I am without a doubt everything you think of me and much more.

However I have managed to form a thought in my mind hallelujah! looking at it backwards to the normal view, do we have records of periods in the earths past when the weather was favorable, how regular and widespread are these areas and how long do these conditions normally last?

Ok Kaesae you’ve probably been asked this already but I’ll try again.

There seem to be 5 options, which is right?

a. You really believe the ‘non-mainstream theories’ you post.
b. You are genuinely confused about these issues and looking for clarification.
c. You are some form of elaborate troll.
d. Sometimes a, sometimes b, sometimes c,
e. Mork calling orson, this is mork calling orson…

I take it I should feel impressed with your response or put off perhaps from posting by the general consensus that I am an idiot for voicing my thoughts, just for the record I am without a doubt everything you think of me and much more.

Please don’t play the martyr card again. I am not attacking you, only your argument.

You didn’t voice a thought, you stated really quite categorically:
“There have been several world floods, it’s part of a cycle that our planet goes through regularly…”

I’m simply pointing out that some regional flooding is not the same thing as a several global floods.

do we have records of periods in the earths past when the weather was favorable,

Favourable to what? We could use proxy measures for climate but no one can tell you weather on a given day or year.
A number of folk have explained the difference between weather and climate on this thread

Yes I did state and actually believe that we can see flooding that affects the entire world, not as in the whole world is under several feet of water, but flooding that effects all of the major land masses to varying degree’s.

We could call this period a world flood or a world storm, after having observed how wet it has been for the past few years, it is not hard to imagine a world where there are large areas under water or when our capacity to produce sufficient food to support the UK’s population will occur.

Perhaps we do not need to worry about the weather or earth quakes, maybe an eruption or two, the human race is so powerful that we need concern ourselves with nothing but amusing ourselves.

On the other hand perhaps we are a race going through the evolutionary equivalent of puberty and will wake up to the current situation and threats that we face!

not as in the whole world is under several feet of water, but flooding that effects all of the major land masses to varying degree’s.

Right! See I’m not sure I’d call that a “world flood”, but yes if we continue to see melting of the polar ice caps then more water will be released into the world’s oceans potentially causing the sea levels to rise and some areas to be flooded.

Another issue is that the introduction of lots of fresh water might alter salinity levels potentially endangering some sealife and altering natural currents.

But the oceans are very large so it really depends how much ice cap we lose.

There is a possible feedback mechanism whereby the melting glacial ice causes trapped greenhouse gases to be released whilst also providing less “white” to reflect back the sun.

Which would be bad.

My understanding is that all the water here is all the water we have ever had so I am not sure where we get the water from for a massive world flood – by which I assume you mean a worldwide flood with lots of areas flooded but not the entire world underwater

If you have flooding that effects the entire world, how would you describe that event?

World flood, is being used as that’s how those who experienced it in the past described it, as well as a world storm which is also handy because it gives us an incite into the cause of the flooding.

We as a lot of you have mentioned previously have a record of great floods caused by rain or storms, the floods from the Bible or Torah and an exodus of animals and plants in a ship, however both of those records are translations of a much older Egyptian text in my opinion.

It is not possible for us to determine how accurate those accounts are, however we can say that those floods were caused by torrential rain fall that lasted for a prolonged period.

If we are seeing rain of biblical proportions now, how much would we estimate would fall in the time scale mentioned in the bible? also if we use our current rain / water levels now and then increase them over a suitable period until they are in line with those time scales mentioned in the bible, how long do we think we have at the current rate of deterioration until the situation becomes untenable?

As for seismic activity, recently there have been quite a few major catastrophic events for our race and although events like these happen more regularly than I would like, those of recent years have been quite unrelenting and large in scale, even compared to other similar events in the past.

Not only are we seeing activity from Iceland’s volcanoes but we are also seeing activity from Etna as well, I personally have to give my own experiences priority over what I am being told, having been affected by flooding and an active volcano recently our country needs to start asking questions.

Also when I look at the earth quake that affected japan, japan is constantly being hit with earth quakes, they are a simple way of life over there, all of their defenses, strategies and counter measures are formed with earth quakes in mind. Yet look at the magnitude of the earth quake that hit them and the amount of devastation it caused.

http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/1229-japan-earthquakes-surprising-rupture-110420.html

What we are seeing is several earth quakes worth of energy being expelled, over a prolonged period. However in my opinion conditions exist in this same area for a much larger quake, not only is it possible, I would consider it a matter of time before we see a greater more devastating quake strike Japan, in the near future.

After skimming a few answers: I haven’t got time to check the detail as the MTB club rides out shortly:

Given the climatic zones a world flood from regular weather is nigh on impossible. A big meterorite landing in the sea might evaporate enough water to produce rain over the whole planet.

The Med dried up and filled a few times as evaporate deposits indicate. Quite recently in geoligical terms but before man turned up a couple of million years ago.

Glaciation cause sea levels to fall and the sea level is currently rising. Sea level changes are on the scale of tens of metres for smaller glaciations and more than 100m for the really big ones. If what’s left of the ice melts then we’ll lose a lot of coastal cities and the coast line will change but not much when viewed from space. The last glacaiation wasn’t a particularly powerful one so sea levels didn’t drop more than a few tens of metres. Plates rebound when the weight of ice is removed so some areas rise.

Plate tectonics build mountains and create ocean trenches. These changes are very slow taking place over tens of millions of years. Plates crash, mountains rise and trenches form, the mountains are eroded and the sediment dumped in the seas leveling things out. Even in the calmest tectonic periods there’s still a lot left sticking out though.

Plate tectonics flod area

Edukator is it possible for continents or plates to sink and rise or even drift at any kind of decent speed?

Before I forget, think about all of the water released from the ice caps melting but also from the rain forests being cut down, that water will then be incorporated into already existing weather systems.

World flood, is being used as that’s how those who experienced it in the past described it, as well as a world storm which is also handy because it gives us an incite into the cause of the flooding.

the world wasn’t very big a few thousand years ago. a single village would have been the whole world for those who lived in it – if the village flooded, it would have seemed as if the whole world had been flooded.

the inundation of the black sea would have been a bit scary – but even that can not be described as a ‘world flood’

is it possible for continents or plates to sink and rise or even drift at any kind of decent speed?

when continental plates decide to really get a shift on, they can zip around at several centimetres/year.

although earthquakes can cause movement of a few metres, in a few minutes…

http://www.emsc-csem.org/#2

http://www.emsc-csem.org/Earthquake/world/M5/

Can anyone tell me if the moment magnitude scale takes into account the duration of the quake?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_magnitude_scale

If I wanted to study all seismic activity for these large scale seismic events, in terms of the actual quake. how the energy manifested, how long it lasted also it characteristics and then any activity in the area it happened leading up to the quake and then afterwards?

Are there any webs sites or any way to get this info?

The water that falls as rain actually comes from the sea in the first place. So the increase in sea level that would come from all the rain is counteracted by the drop in sea level from the air sucking up the required water.

Re seismographs – you might find some in news sites or something, but probably not for all quakes.

Remember, even if all of the sea-ice melts the water level will not rise. It’s only land-based ice that causes this affect.

is this research for some sort of doomsday cult?

7.4 magnitude quake yesterday El Salvador.

http://www.emsc-csem.org/Earthquake/earthquake.php?id=282957

How much power/energy does something like that have? anyone actually have experience of quakes or eruptions?

7.4 magnitude quake yesterday El Salvador.

How much power/energy does something like that have?

let me google that for you

Magnitude is a measure of power- think of it like throwing a 5 magnitude stone in a lake or a 7.4 magnitude one in a lake. Which has the most power?
Note also it is a logarithmic scale [ ordinal is 1 , 2 ,3 etc where the gap is always the same with this logarithmic scale
an increase of one step on this logarithmic scale corresponds to a 10 to power of 1.5 or 32 times increase in the amount of energy released, and an increase of two steps corresponds to a 10 to the power of 3 = 1000 times increase in energy.

The magnitude is a measure of the energy at the point of the earthquake just like we could measure the power of the “magnitude stone” thrown in to the water or the moment magnitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_magnitude_scale

Had a tremor a few times in the UK but never anything large

Why can’t we just measure the earth quake and judge it by what occurs within each second of continuous seismic activity and also apply any other techniques but within that one second segment time frame.

I want to see exactly what is happening in a wave format with all relevant info, every aspect of the earth quake that we can monitor and observe the patterns of, should be monitored.

Surely there is a better way with 40+ years of technological advancement, to monitor seismic activity?

druidh – Member

Remember, even if all of the sea-ice melts the water level will not rise. It’s only land-based ice that causes this affect.

Though, the impact on salination levels and currents would still be interesting.

Also, the penguins’ll be right pissed off, and I know what I’m more worried about.

kaesae – Member

Why can’t we just measure the earth quake and judge it by what occurs within each second of continuous seismic activity and also apply any other techniques but within that one second segment time frame.

I want to see exactly what is happening in a wave format with all relevant info, every aspect of the earth quake that we can monitor and observe the patterns of, should be monitored.

Surely there is a better way with 40+ years of technological advancement, to monitor seismic activity?

That’s exactly what they do! You’ve never seen a seismometer? But you have to summarise that information in order to get usable data when you’re dealing with large samples.

Druidh, wouldn’t the ice that is above the water level add to our current situation and the more ice that melds the more volcanoes will become active or more active in terms of the ones that are already active.