Back to today, and I’m pretty impressed with the Labour manifesto. Makes a lot of sense and its what this country needs. Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory’s at the moment

The question now is how many people can be persuaded its deliverable enough to vote for it

Sarah Wollaston

The question now is how many people can be persuaded its deliverable enough to vote for it

I think that hits the nail on the head…

Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory’s at the moment

You’d think so….. but ultimately that’s not what stops people voting Tory … It should do and given current leadership and Boris’ record of delivering NOTHING even more but ???
I’m also asking of Labour is this based on staying in or leaving…

I think for me the ultimate Q is at what point would Labour back off if it turns out it’s not working or it’s too fast and my concern there is if that can/would be admitted? (based on failure IMHO to admit Corbyn was not the ideal choice)

I can’t comment on political or economics experts but I can comment on science and what is becoming increasingly popular are dumbed down narratives that ignore fact or established theory when inconvenient.

Yes. Criticism of vaccine denialism is definitely a dumbed down “science” narrative.

Do you believe that scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change is a metropolitan liberal elite conspiracy by any chance?

stevextc

Perhaps in your world people should find the cess pit that is politics interesting?

I couldn’t care less if people find it interesting or not.
But if you don’t vote, you have no right to complain.
And if you don’t take time to research and understand your voting choices, your deliberate ignorance has consequences for all of us.

There are plenty of very well educated people who really have no interest in politics and from our perspective there is more important or at least more interesting shit …

I know.
Pathetic, isn’t it?

It’s not what/who he means it’s the ethos as promogulated by Gove….the short answer is anyone that disagrees but deeper than that it is who governments/ministers/politicians choose to listen to and present themselves as “experts”.

I can’t comment on political or economics experts but I can comment on science and what is becoming increasingly popular are dumbed down narratives that ignore fact or established theory when inconvenient.

My impression is that the same is going on in politics and economics, I don’t know enough to understand the difference.

Thanks for that stevextc, now understand.

Very much agree with your second paragraph, am seeing too much of this in the worlds I live in. Don’t get me started on NICE guidelines, have a newly published set to read and reckon I’ll be screaming before I’ve reached the end. Thank god I do my own learning.

Yeah! What the **** do the medical experts at NICE know, right?

Refuse to listen to patient groups, parrot dogma from the USA/CDC cos they cba’d to think for themselves or commission research in the UK. Tick box medicine FTW.

They’re finished mate. Its actually a series of visuals for all the big screens in the local colleges communal areas.

The colleges are having a real push to get the young people registered to vote. They’re running sessions to help the students get their registrations all sorted.

Its really good to see them stressing the importance of voting, and obviously great to be involved in. I actually feel like I’m doing something useful for a change.

Obviously, theres a degree of self-interest as the more young people vote, the less chance the Tory’s have 😀

cinnamon girl

Thanks for that stevextc, now understand.

Very much agree with your second paragraph, am seeing too much of this in the worlds I live in.

That’s just my take … but yep.

Phew… saves me typing…

"You see, real people don't have time to go worrying about little things like lies. Real people are much too busy getting on with their real lives in the real world. Walking their whippets, going down their coal mines, eating their bread-and-dripping and so forth"

— Michael Deacon (@MichaelPDeacon) November 21, 2019

stevextc

That’s your opinion … I find the whole thing pretty much a quagmire of dishonesty.

It’s always going to involve a certain amount of dishonesty, because politics offers so much opportunity for those who wish to abuse power and control for their own ends.

So what are you planning on doing to change it?

You could get involved yourself and make it better.
You could do some research and vote for those who you believe best represent your ideals.
The least you could do is think about the options and vote – if you don’t then you are handing power back to the very people you despise.

Living in a democracy brings with it certain responsibilities.
If you choose not to accept those responsibilities you also give up the right to complain.

Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory’s at the moment

Last time it was costed comprehensively, I’d be surprised if it wasn’t this time but I have not checked. The Tories’ one isn’t afaik.

IFS are sceptical it’s all possible:

https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/article/labour-manifesto-an-initial-reaction-from-ifs-researchers

The Labour Party manifesto offers a very substantial increase in the role of the state, one that is even larger than the big increase offered in their last manifesto.

I’m out. Handing a group of people this incompetent a bigger role in our lives is bananas.

Handing a group of people this incompetent a bigger role in our lives is bananas.

But currently no-one is bothering to make things better, which is why they are getting worse.

They may not manage it perfectly, but that’s less important than the fact that someone wants to manage it. See, if you just leave things alone as Tories like to do, then the rich and powerful abuse the poor and downtrodden. This has always happened. Labour want to prevent that from happening. So they might not get it perfectly right, but at least they are trying to fix things by taking an active role. The Tories won’t, because it is literally the entire point of the Tory party not to bother.

If there were two parties both promising to fix things for the worse off, then yes you would be right to compare them. But Tories are not going to fix things for the worse off – they are just going to ignore them and wash their hands, cos that’s what they do. Small state.

In fact, the Tories one attempt to change the system that helps people – Universal Credit – is an unmitigated disaster in terms of execution, never mind the fact it is designed to allow benefits to be cut more.

TJ – my local labour MP, Sue Hayman. Pretty sure she isn’t corrupt.

Anyway the local Brexit candidate (a retired dentist and investor no less – I’ll bet he knows a lot about manufacturing and what made Britain great…) has had one of his minions dodder up my drive and drop off his leaflet.
Lots about supporting the local area – imagine my surprise to note he had his leaflet printed in Bodmin. Which is just about as far away from Workington as you can get and still be in England 🙂 Hohum.

Refuse to listen to patient groups, parrot dogma from the USA/CDC cos they cba’d to think for themselves or commission research in the UK. Tick box medicine FTW.

So in short, NICE are wrong because of something you read on the internet.

Those two are jokers … taking the population for a ride.

Something to cheer you up from Led By Donkeys 😃

We own https://t.co/OQ5hfKpVXw. Farage and co have sent us a long legal letter demanding we give it to him. Well, he can have the website… for a million quid, all proceeds to the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants (price goes up £50k a day)

— Led By Donkeys (@ByDonkeys) November 21, 2019

…including nationalising electriticy and gas, water, Royal Mail and railways.
Shame, for a few days there it looked like Labour might conceivably win a majority

😛

🙂

It’s costed as well.
They’re going to make themselves a fortune.