Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 6,291 total)
  • 2019 General Election
  • Premier Icon ctk
    Full Member

    Nazi policy killed disabled people

    Tory policy killed disabled people

    Premier Icon rone
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    Labour aren’t antisemitic in any real sense – totally inflated story based on insinuation and smear tactics. I do however very much want a socialist party in power.

    Absolutely. There is no way out of the despicable concentration of wealth in this country than a huge redistribution.

    Neolibralism has ran out of steam for the most; markets have failed us in lots of ways. Unless we want more of the same we must have some form of socialism to sort this out.

    Anyone who calls Corbyn and Labour Communists or Marxists with any sort of intended slur – needs to be asked well would your rather not have the NHS? That usually sorts the wheat from the chaff.

    It’s such frustration that people have used Brexit has Corbyn’s yardstick and decided that doesn’t make a successful leader – and yet no leader has navigated this unscathed. Do you think there is a point there?

    If we could get beyond Brexit just for a moment I think Corbyn is very much the person we need in charge. Free from ego, decent and caring – and he’s a fighter too – quietly dispatching many strong critics and Tory leaders.

    He’s got something that appeals but it’s a battle for the electorate to see that because ultimately we’ve made a drama out of Brexit and he’s not the best actor in the cast.

    Premier Icon willard
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    I would argue that someone with the same (or similar) message, but with more charisma and without the taint that Corbyn has would be a better choice. I know too many people that dislike Johnson, but cannot bring themselves to vote for Corbyn (terrorist sympathies, old-skool marxism, etc). You need someone that can pull in those voters, then they would walk it.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    You need someone that can pull in those voters, then they would walk it.

    Yep. They also need a very good strategist to combat the populism than Tories/Cummings will put out.

    Labour policies should be easy to sell to most people if you could get their attention for 2 minutes as they are for the good of most people.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    but with more charisma

    What does that actually mean? Seems to me that when it comes to politics charisma means narcissism, and that’s the last thing we need right now. Even then it’s weird that this criticism is aimed at Corbyn when he’s the only politician I can remember who can attract thousands to a public campaign event. (And no, they’re not all party stooges however much the haters pretend they are)

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    What does that actually mean?

    It means that when people see you on Television they are drawn to you, think you are a great person etc,. even before they have said much. Corbyn is the opposite of that unfortunately.
    I support Labour policies but he should have gone a long time ago.

    Politics has changed a lot and the person and the catch phrases are more important than the policies. You need the right leader to have a chance of getting into power to implement the policies.

    Premier Icon miketually
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    For a 2019 general election Johnson would actually have to win a Parliamentary vote, so…

    Premier Icon perchypanther
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    What does that actually mean?

    No beard.

    There hasn’t been a Prime Minister with a beard since 1902.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
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    It would be stupid to have a GE before a 2nd referendum but then stupidity is the new norm for UK politics it seems.

    I can’t see any party getting a majority in a GE and unfortunately the Tories probably have the best chance – if the BP does a deal with them. So chances are we’ll go into 2020 in much the same way as we are now, with parliament still not ratifying a crappy deal. At that point though I can’t see the EU has much choice but to refuse a further extension as the government still wouldn’t support a 2nd referendum so extending would be pointless.

    Premier Icon stevextc
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    Oh and conflating Nazis who called themselves socialist to make it look like they were on the people’s side with Labour who actually are is very poorly informed.

    But they were socialist in many ways if you view ideology in 2D left to right…. it’s a specific brand of national socialism but it’s an ever present danger that any ideological belief can slip in unexpected directions… (or are we going to argue Stalin wasn’t a socialist?)

    However … as I’ve tried to point out elsewhere… PC stop phrases are based on bollox
    It’s faintly ludicrous to suggest Corbyn is racist so we adopt/invent a “anti-semetic” label.
    Anyone who thinks the situatiuon in Palestine/Israel (or RoI/NI) is all one sided in either direction is looking through rose tinted glasses…

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Politics has changed a lot and the person and the catch phrases are more important than the policies.

    i couldn’t disagree more. The reason we’re in this mess is because of ‘charismatic’ politicians who talk a good game but fail to do anything of substance. The trouble is that the charisma/narcissism you seek is inversely proportional to any intention to do anything once in power.

    Premier Icon spursn17
    Free Member

    It means that when people see you on Television they are drawn to you, think you are a great person etc,. even before they have said much.

    Like Tony Blair, That turned out well didn’t it?

    Premier Icon stevextc
    Free Member

    It would be stupid to have a GE before a 2nd referendum but then stupidity is the new norm for UK politics it seems.

    It is just as stupid to have a referendum before the lies and facts are determined and the reasons people voted the way they did are understood and the facts made available and the lies ruled upon in some way…. regardless of the result we will still be in a very broken nation (or nations)

    Premier Icon perchypanther
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    I can’t see any party getting a majority in a GE

    Perhaps the solution is for Labour to refuse a GE via the 2/3 vote, refuse it via a VONC and leave the only option open to achieving an election being via an amendable bill.

    Amend the bill such that , in the event of no party gaining an overall majority in the GE, a 2nd brexit, legally binding, referendum is immediately called to settle the Brexit issue once and for all.

    Let’s actually find out what the will of the people is.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    There hasn’t been a Prime Minister with a beard since 1902.

    (cough) Gordon Brown (cough)

    Premier Icon avdave2
    Free Member

    (cough) Gordon Brown (cough)

    Remind me, which year was it he won the election?:-)

    Premier Icon kerley
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    i couldn’t disagree more. The reason we’re in this mess is because of ‘charismatic’ politicians who talk a good game but fail to do anything of substance. The trouble is that the charisma/narcissism you seek is inversely proportional to any intention to do anything once in power.

    I don’t seek it, but the general public do and the charismatic person is the person who wins. If Corbyn was charismatic and had the same polices he does now he would be winning in the polls. And once in power he would implement those policies – what is wrong with that?

    Premier Icon boomerlives
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    I think Corbyn is very much the person we need in charge

    But he isn’t really in charge; he’s a puppet for Momentum.

    Labour need a leader who can lead, then they could walk it. Corbyn is unelectable to the uncertain centre.

    with a decent leader they would already be in number 10

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    Like Tony Blair, That turned out well didn’t it?

    Yes like Tony Blair. How it turned out is irrelevant as that is down to what he implemented, the wars he fought etc,. but the point is he got Labour into power which is more than Corbyn will ever do.

    Premier Icon butcher
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    Hopefully we’ll see the Labour Party decimated and not a threat for a generation.

    Well there’s the thread set on fire with stupidity in the second post.

    Premier Icon perchypanther
    Free Member

    (cough) Gordon Brown (cough)

    Did he have a beard? I don’t remember that

    Premier Icon BillMC
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    We live in interesting times. Polls can mislead eg May last time. Bad weather coming and a week is a long time in politics etc. It only takes an avoidable death in an A and E queue to refocus attentions, in the 70s it was some poor soul who choked whilst trying to eat cardboard. These things can and do happen.
    I’ve had graduate bar tenders tell me how they couldn’t vote for Corbyn, I’ve had to resist the temptation to ask if they feel neoliberal capitalism has worked out well for them. It’s an amazing trick how the establishment has convinced the victims to vote for more punishment. There’s a lot of unfocused anger out there ready to be exploited. I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories. And on AS and terrorism and all those tropes, just give us some ‘who, when and where’ or shut up and go away.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories.

    😂

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    If Corbyn was charismatic

    Again, which other politician can you remember who could pull in thousands to public campaign events? Now I’m not saying he’s charismatic, but he must have something about him…

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories.

    There is a difference between not thinking Corbyn is the best leader and not liking current Labour policies. Current Labour policies are okay although ideally they would be a bit further left but Corbyn is useless. See the difference?

    Premier Icon dazh
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    but Corbyn is useless

    Well I hate to sound like a middle manager, but all this whining does is guarantee failure. For better or worse, Corbyn is leader and will fight the next election. Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters can get behind him and try to win, or stand around moaning which will ensure they lose. I strongly believe if they did the former, then they would have a very strong chance of winning. It seems many in the party want the opposite to happen though, and when it’s all done and dusted they won’t be forgiven for not making the most of the opportunity when it presented itself.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    Be interesting to see how pro Brexit labour rebels do, even in leave seats like there’s majority of labour supporters voted remain

    Premier Icon stevextc
    Free Member

    Well I hate to sound like a middle manager, but all this whining does is guarantee failure. For better or worse, Corbyn is leader and will fight the next election. Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters can get behind him and try to win, or stand around moaning which will ensure they lose. I strongly believe if they did the former, then they would have a very strong chance of winning. It seems many in the party want the opposite to happen though, and when it’s all done and dusted they won’t be forgiven for not making the most of the opportunity when it presented itself.

    Meanwhile … in the real world out of Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters which group is most important to winning a (hint) election?

    Premier Icon dazh
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    in the real world out of Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters which group is most important to winning a (hint) election?

    There’s no hope of voters voting for you if they think you don’t want to win, and at the moment many labour MPs are giving exactly that impression.

    Premier Icon mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    No beard.

    Perchy speaks truth. Beardymen are universally perceived as less trustworthy than clean shaved chaps.

    Obviously (99.999%) inapplicable to ladies.

    Also, current labour policy looks fine. Corbyn simply does not grab attention. Policy is not down to the figurehead anyway.

    Think about why old farts and leavers love Joris. As much as anything else, as soon as he’s on TV its the Joris Bohnson show, man of the people, funny haired mop top fop, he’s on your side, he’s sticking it to the man, it’s good old Boris!

    Then you get Corbyn. Blah de blah blah blah blah boring.

    PS I’m not hating on Corbyn as a capable MP. He’s simply not the man for the hot seat.

    Premier Icon piha
    Free Member

    Again, which other politician can you remember who could pull in thousands to public campaign events?

    The Peoples Vote campaign have hundreds of thousands of politically motivated people attend each march and the chants of “Where’s Jeremy Corbyn” were ever present. Has Jeremy had 100 000’s attend one of his jamboree’s?

    And to be fair to the hateful faarge, he has attracted crowds up and dow the country.

    In a single issue GE both the tories and Labour stand to lose a good % of their vote to the BP.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    The Peoples Vote campaign

    Are they standing for election?

    In a single issue GE both the tories and Labour stand to lose a good % of their vote to the BP.

    It won’t be a single issue election. Brexit will dominate but there are huge numbers of people who don’t caree about it one way or the other.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    Well I hate to sound like a middle manager, but all this whining does is guarantee failure.

    Nope, all Corbyn does is guarantee failure. I will be voting Labour (I am actually Green but that is even more of a wasted vote than Labour where I live) but that does not mean I cannot criticise the leader and think that Labour’s chances of winning would be far greater with a different person as leader.
    You are simply not able to grasp how unpopular Corbyn is with most people. The polices don’t even get a look in as people won’t look past Corbyn. The Tories have played on this for a few years now and that is working well for them.

    Premier Icon stevextc
    Free Member

    There’s no hope of voters voting for you if they think you don’t want to win, and at the moment many labour MPs are giving exactly that impression.

    All a bit chicken and egg really…. regardless many Labour voters won’t vote for him to be PM and even more swing voters.

    Premier Icon binners
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    I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories.

    That right there is the major reason that Corbyn, with Momentum behind him will never, ever win an election. Proper sixth form level ‘debate’, right there. Puerile!

    Anyone who fails to swear allegiance in blood to St Jeremy and not see him as some kind of anointed deity is immediately defined as ‘the enemy’ and then treated with open hostility.

    No criticism of the glorious leader will be tolerated. Anything the chosen one says must be taken as the gospel as if had just been brought down from a mountain engraved on stone tablets. Vitriol awaits anyone who dares question the almighty (peace be upon him)

    It looks like a cult. And cults aren’t very attractive places for the majority of people

    There is only one way to win elections in this country. Blair knew it (boooo… hisss….. war criminal!!) You don’t just have to pander to your core vote, who’ll vote for you anyway, you need to reach out and convince people who aren’t your natural constituency. You have to convince swing voters in marginal constituencies.

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen a politician less interested, or able, to do this than Jeremy Corbyn.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Full Member

    There is only one way to win elections in this country. Blair knew it (boooo… hisss….. war criminal!!) You don’t just have to pander to your core vote, who’ll vote for you anyway, you need to reach out and convince people who aren’t your natural constituency. You have to convince swing voters in marginal constituencies.

    Bang on.

    Premier Icon TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    Unfortunately I only see Corbyn as a leader in a primary school headteacher, charity, local council department sort of way. Nothing wrong with that but lacks the statesman like qualities he needs to convince the masses.

    I’ll vote Lib Dem… because West Oxfordshire a Remain constituency has a hard Brexit supporting MP and **** all chance of getting anything but the incumbent prick back in parliament.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Full Member

    Proper sixth form level ‘debate’, right there.

    No criticism of the glorious leader will be tolerated.

    The people acting like sixth formers are the centrists. If they don’t get the leader they want, they refuse to play ball and make defeat a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s hard to escape the conclusion that the centrists don’t want to win an election, and don’t want a second ref on brexit given their habit of voting to support Johnson’s deal. I’m not going to call them tories, but you can see why some come to that conclusion when they do everything in their power to support them.

    Premier Icon cycl1ngjb
    Free Member

    My predictions…

    SNP make gains in Scotland (I reckon just a couple of seats at most for other parties)
    BP also make gains from both Tories and Labour
    LD make a few gains (~25 – 30 seats total)
    Labour lose quite a few seats (JC has to stand down as a result)
    Tories retain most seats overall, but no overall control
    Other parties remain pretty much unchanged

    My seat is Tory and last time round his majority was significantly reduced, I voted labour last time out, but can’t do the same now with an unclear message from them

    Premier Icon perchypanther
    Free Member

    Every single time JC comes on the TV my wife says a variation of the same thing.

    It’s not ” He hates Jews”, or ” I disagree with his policies because he’s a Marxist / Secret Brexiteer / puppet of the Unions / cult leader / terrorist sympathiser / Magic Grandad / allottment owner  etc. etc.”

    It’s always the same. ” Look at the state of him….he looks like a tramp”  No matter what he says, she can’t see past that.

    He has a massive perception problem amongst a huge swathe of people who don’t care that much about politics but like their politicians to appear  well groomed and statesmanlike.

    He’ll never be electable as long as he looks like the bloke who pretends to be Santa in B&M’s.

    People won’t trust nuclear launch codes to a man who can’t arrange a well ironed shirt.

    It’s Michael Foot all over again.

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