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  • 2019 General Election
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Interesting take on why people didn’t like Corbyn and not something I’d thought of:

    “If you are on the doorstep and one person mentions Brexit, but five people mention the leader of the Labour party for being the reason they are not going to vote for you, then things need to change. I believe that the leader of the Labour party should not be resigning today, he should have resigned a long time ago.”

    On the “patriotism” angle… Corbyn’s responses to Russian spies out to kill in England, and Iranian attacks on ships, did Labour no favours whatsoever.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    kelvin

    Subscriber

    On the “patriotism” angle… Corbyn’s responses to Russian spies out to kill in England, and Iranian attacks on ships, did Labour no favours whatsoever.

    His response re Russia was “let’s prove it before we respond”, as it was in Iran. Boris Johnston’s response re Russia, as foreign secretary was to lie on record about being given proof by Porton Down and undermine the actual case against Russia, giving them a perfect response. Oh and to then suppress a report on Russian campaign interference.

    And what was the real outcome of these 2 things, what action did the government take? Some mean tweets.

    Patriotism ffs, one of these 2 leaders was found to have lied to the bloody queen, how patriotic do you want to get? But that was OK because brexit, meanwhile Corbyn’s comments were awful because beards or something. What, exactly, could Labour have changed in this scenario that would make a difference?

    seosamh77

    Subscriber

    Biggest problem with fptp is you get a lot of unrepresented people. Which tbh is probably why we end up with this f you Brexit vote.

    Absolutely this. A lot of people genuinely thought it was a good thing that UKIP’s 900000 voters in 2010 got them 0 seats and 3.8 million in 2015 got them 1. Or put it a different way, they had 22 times the votes of the DUP who got 8 seats, meaning each UKIP vote was worth 1/176th of each DUP vote.

    Of course those voters felt disenfranchised and angry. If you look at the stats today they just show up as “other” unless you go digging, as if they were all votes for lord buckethead or something. It’s a twofold issue, they were frozen out by FPTP then treated as if they were just meaningless votes by the people who benefitted from FPTP- David Cameron with a third of votes but a majority of seats, acting like he represented a majority. Even in 2017 when they had a bad year, they still had twice as many votes as the DUP who ended up being partners in government.

    Of course it’s bloody undemocratic. It’s amazing how satisfied people can be if they just get a couple of seats.

    Premier Icon irc
    Free Member

    In The Sunday Times. The New Statesman editor said he couldn’t endorse Labour because Corbyn,s indulgence of anti semitism, refusal to take a stance on Brexit and toxic associations with extremists over several decades.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    “let’s prove it before we respond”

    Even if his response was limited to that, and you consider it the correct balanced response… it was seen as siding with Russia after an attack on UK soil by many.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    kelvin

    Subscriber

    Even if his response was limited to that, and you consider it the correct balanced response… it was seen as siding with Russia after an attack on UK soil by many.

    Sure. And basically that’s an issue that you have to tackle. But can you tackle it by pitching every policy and every word you say based on how it might be twisted by a hostile media? Asking for evidence isn’t siding with anyone. And the lack of evidence gave Russia a perfect attack line.

    The delivery around that message was pisspoor from Labour- it should have been along the lines of “Clearly Russia are the number one suspects but we have to prove that.” They might not respect the rule of law but we do, that sort of thing. It is our government’s responsiblity to prove then act.

    And on that note a more aggressive response to the tories would have been smart, too- “they talk a good game but what are they actually doing?” Because the government response to both Iran and Russia was piss-weak and that was asking to be hammered. Remember, Corbyn did call for stronger action against Russia once the case was actually proven. But that got totally lost in the mire.

    They definitely had a hard job to get that message out but they botched it. But that wasn’t just about asking for evidence.

    Premier Icon oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    Much navel gazing on here right now…

    Question is remainiacs what are we going to do? At the heart of this the vast majority who voted for the Bojo are not people who create jobs or growth (at either end of the voting spectrum) one end will take the wealth and the other will expect to be handed a tiny bit of wealth from the Bojo overdraft?

    No point looking back…. focus on the shit show post brexit.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    oldmanmtb2

    Member

    No point looking back…. focus on the shit show post brexit.

    Don’t agree tbh, like I said elsewhere the Tories will be learning every possible lesson and honing every succesful tactic from the election, nobody else can afford to do any less. And specifically in Labour’s case it’s the refusal to analytically look at their own successes and failures that lets them make the next mistake.

    And nothing’s really changed yet- we know what’s coming but there’s no retaliation against brexit that’ll work until it really starts to hit home. Sadly it’ll be “project fear” from now until the worst starts to arrive.

    Premier Icon RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Sorry about the previous post.
    I don’t wish suffering on anyone.

    Calmed down now.

    Hope I didn’t offend too many people.

    Premier Icon dangerousbeans
    Free Member

    There’s little we can do beyond looking after our own small bubble of friends and family.
    We will have to see how the next few years pan out. I’m expecting a lot of pain and misery but hopeful that I’m wrong.
    However, I intend to hope for the best and plan for the worst so am rationalising finances to best protect me and mine.
    Have cancelled all unnecessary direct debits and now have a further £80 per month to absorb some possible cost implications of leaving.
    5 years is a long time so ride the tide.

    Premier Icon oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    15 years is what you need to plan around…

    5 years of lies, blame, its all jonny foreigners fault.

    5 years of slow, painful realisation..

    5 years to stabilse…

    Think Thatcher – Major – Blair

    We have literally regressed 30 years.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Strategy.

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