Viewing 40 posts - 6,201 through 6,240 (of 6,291 total)
  • 2019 General Election
  • Premier Icon H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    Actually having read back my own words it occurs to me. How can a FPTP system of election, where any of the constituencies have more than 2 parties running for election, ever be considered fair.?
    If there are more than 2 parties running then 99/100 times (i.e anything other than a complete landslide victory) means that the elected MP is only representing a minority of those in his constituency, by definition of FPTP he/she must have won less than 50% of the vote.
    Maybe it made sense in the days before Pitt, before such a thing as a PM existed, I cannot see how it makes sense today when every decision (more or less) made by Parliament affects us all but only a fraction of us gave them the authority to make those decisions.
    Isn’t a feeling of disenfranchisement by a majority of people in a country what eventually causes uprisings and civil wars.??

    Premier Icon 5thElefant
    Free Member

    Isn’t a feeling of disenfranchisement by a majority of people in a country what eventually causes uprisings and civil wars.??

    We’re not French.

    Premier Icon H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    We’re not French.

    😀 Is that the best that we aim for, for ourselves now then.?

    Premier Icon colournoise
    Full Member

    We’re not French.

    Maybe we should aspire to be though…

    Premier Icon 5thElefant
    Free Member

    Maybe we should aspire to be though…

    Constant riots resisting climate change measures? Not much of an aspiration.

    Premier Icon H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    So, taking my own constituency as an example. The incumbent MP retained his seat with 46% of the vote with a turnout of, just shy of 72%.
    I think this is actually a pretty good example of FPTP working as intended and yet even with those numbers it’s massively unfair.

    Out of 68330 registered voters, 45719 did NOT vote for the winner.!!!! How can that be.? (This includes those who are registered but did not vote, I included them because their reason for not voting cannot be known but feeling unrepresented cannot be discounted as a reason)

    Premier Icon 5thElefant
    Free Member

    They simply don’t care? That’s an entirely valid position. One I held for a couple of decades until Corbyn appeared.

    Premier Icon H1ghland3r
    Free Member

    They simply don’t care? That’s an entirely valid position. One I held for a couple of decades until Corbyn appeared.

    That’s a fair point, however, if they were all made to care somehow (compulsory or mandatory voting is a whole other issue), unless they ALL voted for the 2nd place candidate, it STILL wouldn’t have made any difference.

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Full Member

    Part of me is wondering if the Tories will change their attitude to investing in the North if retaining those seats are a possibility.

    Premier Icon boomerlives
    Free Member

    unless they ALL voted for the 2nd place candidate, it STILL wouldn’t have made any difference.

    So you might as well stop carrying on about how unfair this system is; it is the system in the country.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Full Member

    Gloating leavers, whining remainers… anyone got a mallet, we can probably drive that wedge in a little deeper yet.

    Riddle me this: if brexit is so popular, what happened to the Brexit Party vote? Is it that rather than wanting brexit, most people just want it over and done with by any means? Or is there something more insidious going on?

    Part of me is wondering if the Tories will change their attitude to investing in the North if retaining those seats are a possibility.

    I doubt that. Remember Boris’s speech, thanking people for loaning him their vote?

    Premier Icon piemonster
    Full Member

    I doubt it too

    But it could keep Labour out for decades

    Premier Icon Klunk
    Free Member

    lets face it the populace are full of shit, they claim concern about the “environment” is high on their priorities then vote for a climate change denier.

    Premier Icon cranberry
    Free Member

    Riddle me this: if brexit is so popular, what happened to the Brexit Party vote?

    It voted Conservative to get Brexit done.

    I doubt that. Remember Boris’s speech, thanking people for loaning him their vote?

    That was about showing the voters in the North some respect, something sorely missing from a Labour Party who considered that it owned those people’s votes.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    The Tories became the Brexit party.

    Tbh nothing has particularly changed regarding people’s attitudes. It is probably still 50 50.

    What happened yesterday though is that half of us were politically defeated.

    So Brexit it is.

    What happens now is the withdrawal agreement will go through. And it will be proclaimed as Brexit got done.

    What happens after that as I mention on the other thread is probably a matter for lawyers and Tory policy, for the next 5 years at least.

    Public opinion may vaguely sway the odd thing. But Tory policy is now king.

    It’s gonny be fun…

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Remember Boris’s speech, thanking people for loaning him their vote?

    That’s just correct use of English, he went to a different school to you.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    And there we are, selfishness knows no bounds.

    If you’re referring to my post you’re very wrong.  Just because I refuse to whip myself into a frenzy over something I can’t change, doesn’t mean my human nature, fatherhood or philanthropy has changed.  It doesn’t mean I agree with the outcome, like Boris or the establishment, or Corbyn either.

    Other than this thread, the last two days have been exactly the same for me – in general – as the two days before it, the next two likely the same.  However, those that are feeling sad, angry, stressed, planning a move, raging, etc aren’t are they?  They hurt themselves – and achieved what exactly by doing it?  A few more words and a few more pages on an internet thread – whoopee.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    I’m alright jack.

    I hope things continue to be that way for you.

    Premier Icon AD
    Full Member

    Very zen Kryton. I am genuinely glad you have achieved inner peace.

    I’m fully intending to keep raging against the dying of the light. I’m personally finding it quite therapeutic 🙂

    If I’m really lucky Boris might even find time to visit the northern constituency where I live on his tour. I’ll then be able to show him appropriate fealty.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    I’m alright jack.

    Didn’t say that though, did I?  I have as many issues as the next man I suspect.

    Edit:  I’ll try to explain it.  Many of you know I received CBT for fear of flying, and I carried some of that learning into my day to day.

    To me, what’s happening here is equivalent to me being stuck on a plane which right now at this very moment is in save and level flight, albeit the Captain has told us there’s some Turbulence ahead and you are all running around shouting “We’re doomed!  we’re all going to die!  The planes going to break up!”

    Except, it isn’t doing that now is it?  It might, but then again the Captain may decide to alter course and avoid it, or he might be a selfish **** and fly straight though it because he wants to get home quicker.  Thing is, as we sit here right now none of us really know which it’s to be even though the planned course is outlined on a map.

    Does that make sense?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Kryton, what changes elections and consequently countries is public discussion. I’ll be upset about the things that happen to people, and I’ll deal with it, but I won’t forget about it.

    I’ll continue to talk about the issues hough (although not whine) because they need to be discussed and remembered so we can hold the government to account if they don’t fix them.

    If opting or forgetting about the issues is what leads to people not caring which is what leads to them not getting fixed.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    Does that make sense?

    It makes perfect sense.

    I’d offer you some additional advice… stay away from political threads on internet forums where other people want to discus these things, rather than ignore them.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    Riddle me this: if brexit is so popular, what happened to the Brexit Party vote? Is it that rather than wanting brexit, most people just want it over and done with by any means? Or is there something more insidious going on?

    “Tactical” vote because many are still skeptical with a new inexperienced party when it comes to GE. Also the fact that people don’t like to change much.

    You might ask why they won in UK European parliament election that is because people just vote for “fun” since that does not “directly” impact on them. Also people vote to send a message …

    However, if PM BoJo does not deliver then in the next GE you will definitely see a new party gaining ground.

    The survival of Labour party will be in next GE as one wrong move means total decimation and probably erase from history. Same goes to LibDem.

    p/s: if they political parties want to win election all they got to do is make it easier for people to earn a livelihood. Not try to impose more rules on them. Give people more freedom to earn a living if the govt cannot create jobs. Kill off the business rate for a start. If PM BoJo kills off the business rate he will be very popular.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Full Member

    I’d offer you some additional advice… stay away from political threads on internet forums where other people want to discus these things, rather than ignore them.

    im following the thread because:

    Kryton, what changes elections and consequently countries is public discussion. I’ll be upset about the things that happen to people, and I’ll deal with it, but I won’t forget about it.

    I’ll continue to talk about the issues though (although not whine) because they need to be discussed and remembered so we can hold the government to account if they don’t fix them.

    If opting or forgetting about the issues is what leads to people not caring which is what leads to them not getting fixed.

    I happen to agree with molgrips. What I’m reacting to is the mental anguish, talk of moving out of the country an extremism such as riots that is quite prevelant on these threads.   I’m not suggesting anyone – nor I – bury their head in the sand.

    Premier Icon colournoise
    Full Member

    It is quite possible (to me at least) to feel all the disbelief, anger and frustration while at the same time being able to pragmatically continue to function absolutely fine in everyday life knowing that what will happen will happen. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    However, if PM BoJo does not deliver then in the next GE you will definitely see a new party gaining ground.

    It really won’t, labour will squabble for the next while, but they’ll have 5 years to come up with something better.

    There will be no new party, the tory/labour merry go round will continue.

    Whether the switch happens in 2024 or 2029 is up for debate, and subject to what happens over the next 5 year, but labour won’t die no new power will emerge.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    talk of moving out of the country

    What’s wrong with that? The country has diverged even further from my values, wouldn’t it make sense for me to want to go somewhere more in alignment?

    Of course, I no longer have the right to do that but whatever.. am I still allowed to be pissed off about that or not?

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    It really won’t, labour will squabble for the next while, but they’ll have 5 years to come up with something better.

    I think they are stuck with no new ideas judging from their current bunch of politicians.

    There will be no new party, the tory/labour merry go round will continue.

    That depends on whether people still believe in the two main parties or take the risks for something new.

    Whether the switch happens in 2024 or 2029 is up for debate, and subject to what happens over the next 5 year, but labour won’t die no new power will emerge.

    My view is that there will be no switch for at least 3 terms unless Tories screw up massively.

    What’s wrong with that? The country has diverged even further from my values, wouldn’t it make sense for me to want to go somewhere more in alignment?

    It is not permanent regardless (divergence) and it will be back again in future but whether you can wait is another story. Whatever makes you happy go for it.

    Of course, I no longer have the right to do that but whatever.. am I still allowed to be pissed off about that or not?

    I am sure if there is a will there is a way. It only takes 10 years to switch/move to another country. Alternatively is to make the best of what you have now. Forget about the world as they can take care of themselves.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    Alternatively is to make the best of what you have now.

    It’s not an either/or thing.

    Premier Icon cromolyolly
    Free Member

    Riddle me this: if brexit is so popular, what happened to the Brexit Party vote?

    In leave areas it went up. More than the conservative vote in many cases. But they were never going to actually get elected. That’s not the point of Farages pet projects. Next up, the reform party.

    Premier Icon cromolyolly
    Free Member

    My view is that there will be no switch for at least 3 terms unless Tories screw up massively.

    Depends how voters judge them. If Brexit goes the way the odds say it will (either no deal by the deadline, or the worst possible deal) an it has even half the economic impact that forecasts say it will, it might be the end of the Conservative Party as we know it. The bad news is, what replaces it.

    Premier Icon chewkw
    Free Member

    Depends how voters judge them. If Brexit goes the way the odds say it will (either no deal by the deadline, or the worst possible deal) an it has even half the economic impact that forecasts say it will, it might be the end of the Conservative Party as we know it. The bad news is, what replaces it.

    They will be silly to gamble as they know truly well that the Red Wall only lend them the power for now. PM BoJo knows that he won because of then power lent to him and acknowledged that for Tories/his victory. If PM BoJo is silly enough to go against the people wishes then Tories will go the same way as Labour as we witnessed on Thursday/Friday.

    The bad news is, what replaces it.

    There will be new party if main party(s) does not deliver. It will be a slow process though as trust is not easy to gain.

    Premier Icon cromolyolly
    Free Member

    PM BoJo is silly enough to go against the people wishes then Tories will go the way of Labour as we witnessed on Thursday/Friday.

    It’s not so much going against their wishes, it is that the promises made are generally accepted as utterly unachievable. It’s not a question of them being broken, it is the specific bits that get broken. A fair deal will take far longer than they promised. Only a bad deal can be done on their timeline. That and the economic impact, which they glossed over.
    He didn’t have much choice but to go against their wishes. It’s not in his control.

    There will be new party if main party(s) does not deliver.

    That never ends well.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    In this case, the Captain has announced he’s put the plane on autopilot and it’s going to crash into a mountain. The crew and those in first class have parachutes. Your feelings on the imminent disaster are obviously tempered by your seating arrangements. You can either think “**** it, I have a chute and don’t care about the rest” or you might be thinking “hang on a mo, maybe we need to storm the cabin door”.

    Premier Icon ferrals
    Free Member

    I think it highly possible we won’t be leaving on 31st Jan. From what I’ve read the timetable is ridiculously tight, requires parliment to sit over the weekend of the 21st/22nd to have a chance and any hold up will scupper the deadline.

    We’ve already had people interviewed on TV saying if Boris doesn’t do it we’ll be coming with violence (pretty dumb thing to state on national TV IMO!). Could be an interesting few months!

    I think it will take over 5 years for people to realise the unicorns have deserted the sunlit uplands though

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    Jo Swinson, classy as always…

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Full Member

    One of the best things about the election result is not having to hear her ridiculous false accent again!

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    I think it will take over 5 years for people to realise the unicorns have deserted the sunlit uplands though

    They will be starting to see it within 5 years. More importantly they need to be asked “is anything better for you now”, “what difference to your life has it made”, “was it all worth it”

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    One of the best things about the election result is not having to hear her ridiculous false accent again!

    Which one?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Full Member

    I think it highly possible we won’t be leaving on 31st Jan.

    0.000001% chance of that now.

    The end of the transition period is an altogether different matter, because that is when companies and state bodies need to have systems in place for whatever comes next. The chance of the “implementation period”, as May put it, having to be extended for new systems to be made ready is high. I suspect Johnson will make the “exit date” happen when he has promised, to reduce the political cost of the date of us actually leaving the Single Market and Customs Union not being when he promised. April 2021 anyone?

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