Working class brexiters* are just another example of the strangeness of human nature.

*correction

No it’s not… lots of working class people go to work… they get home and put kids to bed and they might get some time to try and keep in touch on the likes of FB before work the next morning.

his policies are excellent. Means nowt.

Many don’t have the time or energy left to read policies… they get some lies broadcast in FB circulated by friends (who got them from friends.. who got targetted by a russian bot)

No it’s not… lots of working class people go to work… they get home and put kids to bed and they might get some time to try and keep in touch on the likes of FB before work the next morning.

This isn’t an excuse – many of my friends work in the hospitality industry, they do ridiculously long hours as chefs and still manage to avoid being uniformed idiots.

What there is, is a large portion of the population who revere ignorance and actively applaud it – people who consider education and schooling to amount to nothing more than just being another brick in the wall.

Maybe my opinion is colored by the fact that decent chefs are usually bright individuals though.

Really? Lots of working people without two spare seconds to rub together can tell that Farage is a spiv, and Johnson an amoral liar who would rather piss on them than help them.

Really? Lots of working people without two spare seconds to rub together can tell that Farage is a spiv, and Johnson am amoral liar who would rather piss on them than help them.

+1

I haven’t met a bright working class individual who would vote Farage or Tory. I have however, met a lot on the wrong side of the educational distribution curve that would vote for the former.

Stating that they don’t have the time to be informed is just the soft bigotry of low expectations – chefs work 70-80 hour weeks, why have I not met one – in the 5 years I worked in kitchens whilst studying, that was a Tory or Farage voter?

No Rayban – once again you show your bigoted views and your complete lack of understanding

……………..and still manage to avoid being uniformed idiots.

What there is, is a large portion of the population who revere ignorance and actively applaud it – people who consider education and schooling to amount to nothing more than just being another brick in the wall.

Maybe my opinion is colored by the fact that decent chefs are usually bright individuals though.

So here we have naked prejudice, negative stereotyping and pure snobbishness all in one post.

a post you could only make because you have no understanding of the lives some people live and because you clearly hold bigoted and snobbish views about people you have never met

Interesting stat of the day:

1.36 million people under the age of 35 have registered to vote

Brexit voters of whatever social background have more similarities than differences.

I’d agree with that, short sighted and selfish.

Interesting stat of the day:

1.36 million people under the age of 35 have registered to vote

Which apparently is double the amount for 2017 at this point.

Well Thats really good Rayban the ” some of my friends are poor” defense.

You are the man who claimed he knew what its like to be poor – with a university education adn £5000 in debt and having to flatshare. Sure thats just like being poor – my arse. The ability to get £5000 in cedit shows you are not poor. Your whole attitude stinks dude and you are unable to realise this due to the inability to realise that you have no idea at all about the lives of many in the UK.

The difference is that I know I am rich. Oh and CFH – accuse me of inverse snobbery and you might be able to make a case. Its not me thats looking down their nose here at the poor, the illeducated and illinformed

Here we go – from 2012 – almost prophetic hey?

An interesting but ultimately flawed hypothesis (In my opinion, obviously), as it assumes an equivalence of the various standpoints (‘moral flavours’) given.

I prefer the explanation that it is easier to appeal to the basest aspects of human nature than the most altruistic.
A point I made some pages ago.

An interesting but ultimately flawed hypothesis (In my opinion, obviously), as it assumes an equivalence of the various standpoints (‘moral flavours’) given.

I prefer the explanation that it is easier to appeal to the basest aspects of human nature than the most altruistic.
A point I made some pages ago.

You should look at Haidts more detailed work – that isn’t watered down for a general audience, start with his wiki page and go from there.

Ach – I shouldn’t have got personal and for that I apologise but really rayban – try actually thinking a little and please stop saying that you have understanding of how many folk live when its clear you do not and stop denigrating those less fortunate than yourself. It stinks

I’ll try to be less obtuse next time in return TJ and I will try and use more subtlety in regards to my opinions. I do think the idea that people don’t have time is wrong though, we need to be giving people a sense of agency not telling them they don’t have any.

Citizen agency is at the root of our political malaise IMO.

I’m a slightly left libertarian, that believes in maximizing the prosperity of as many people as possible (material and environmental before some of you e-lynch me). I sometimes get attached to Left-wing market anarchism but know that it would not work in practice.

Your prejudice against those who attended (or didn’t) state schools is telling though.
It undermines your standpoint and reeks of prejudice.

My time in the state system never included a single mention of the concept of critical thinking – the first time that I came into contact in a semi-state based system with the concept of something like “confirmation bias” was within the university system. Most of my state friends can attest to the same, maybe I went to comp during a particularly bad era?

He means debt.

Blaming the state system for your own lack of awareness is the very antithesis of libertarianism.

Of course, that’s why I have done a lot of reading in my own time. I noticed that apathy and lack of agency among my peers when I was a kid and decided I didn’t want any part of it.

I don’t pretend to know how to give people the tools whereby they are encouraged to do the same though – or whether we need a more strongly funded state system in reality, against my own libertarian leanings. Is the state system the answer – or is it what causes people to disengage in the first place? Do we need a radically different form of education with more freedom and choice where people can self sort? Or do we need hardcore stateism with classes on citizenship?

All I have is a deep suspicion that something is grossly wrong with the way society is educated and that it’s evidenced by those who are deeply ambivalent towards it and who do not care for “experts”.

And yet you abuse Angela Rayner (and everyone else from a similar background) for doing the same?

Rayner dropped out, sorry – but I stuck with it and got myself out of my shit state school and hometown. She went into a union which was a way out for her, but not one that I believe sets you up to be a competent PM.

Rayner, will be good as a cabinet minister for education or equality, she really isn’t PM material like Cooper though. You need someone with more of an international outlook than Rayners background, unless we want to spend another decade navel gazing and misunderstanding our place in the world.

That’s my opinion though, it’s not in reality fact, and you are entitled to yours. I might have been overly harsh on Rayner as I’m **** pissed with the Labour party and Lib Dems as a whole. Tories are tories, we all know that a lot of them (not all) are total bellends (those that have dragged it further right than even Thatcher), so what they do doesn’t make me so emotionally livid.

Yeah, I can’t make a further comment on that jjprestidge – but maybe you guys can give education a good argue over on my behalf.

What makes you believe that her background in care work, her experience as a single parent and her work for a trade union makes her less capable of analytical thinking than yourself?

You appear to have a very high opinion of yourself and a very low opinion of other people who have achieved as much or more by alternative means.

I believe that Cooper has a better understanding of global affairs than either myself or Rayner.

Don’t take me thinking that Cooper is better equipped for that role than Rayner as some sign that I think I am better equipped to do the job than Rayner. I’d have probably glassed Istanbul with the big red button now ffs.

Cooper has demonstrated her ability to think globally and she has demonstrated a sharper intellect than almost anyone in the Labor party, care work or my own background in my career does not demonstrate any evidence of capability on a world stage.

Cooper comes the closest (and only slightly) to some kind of Labour version of Angela Merkel, that is what Labour needs right now to win.

Maybe that’s unfair, but I can tell you now that care work makes people desperate to improve themselves and also gives a greater understanding of human nature than anything else I’ve experienced.

That still doesn’t make her better than Cooper for the position of PM, the experience you talk about is what is useful to have in cabinet members.

Rayner is also objectively dire in her media appearances, do you want someone who can hold their own and not be so easily wrong footed by media questioning? We all want someone who cares for the British public, that isn’t the only qualification you need to win and be successful in the role.

You must have forgotten how bad Cooper was in her leadership campaign ( and after it!)

I think she has come along way since then – and the last time I checked she was second behind Corbyn in terms of popularity among Labour membership, Rayner was down in something like 7th.

She appears to have found media form recently.

And qualifying as a social carer somehow makes you fit for the office of PM? Is being a bit of a “striver not a skivver” now what we hold as the prerequisites to become PM? After elements of the left have spent the past 20 years lambasting the poor educational attainment of people like G W Bush? Does that not leave the left looking like complete hypocrites? Poor educational attainment is okay in a leader – as long as it’s one of us.

That should float your Tory? Conservative? Libertarian? whatever it is we’ve decided you are boat.

Let me take a guess at what you think – is it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism ?