Home Forums Chat Forum 2019 General Election

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  • 2019 General Election
  • crazy-legs
    Full Member
    hels
    Free Member

    I believe you have just named a new political era Outofbreath – “Unpopulism”. That’s pure genius and I shall use it widely.

    rone
    Full Member

    Boris Johnson has failed to show up for an appearance on Jeremy Vince. Every other leader has done it. They’re giving him a right slating

    It really is damage limitation with him.

    He just can’t hack it.

    Let’s get him out!

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    I believe you have just named a new political era Outofbreath – “Unpopulism”. That’s pure genius and I shall use it widely.

    Love it, but the credit goes to you for “Unpopulism”.

    In other news, 15 former Labour MPs having a pop at Jezza in Northern Constituencies:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-vote-mps-a9241411.html

    Not sure this actually sways voters, mind you the guys that wrote it obviously think it might.

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    Have we ever had a weaker man who wanted to be PM than Johnson?

    John Major in 1992

    Got a huge number of votes IIRC. But he was up against a divisive Labour leader

    HTH

    Klunk
    Free Member

    Blowjo makes John Major look like a Colossus, and for all he’s faults you’d couldn’t accuse him of being a coward.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Yep, John Major was a lot better than I thought at the time. I had even more hatred for tories back then in my marxist youth which may have clouded my judgement.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    it’s a bit odd that everyone including the dailyfail (it was top of the page) reported this mornings GMB fiasco and it didn’t even make the news feed of the BBC (that i could see)! :/

    this is their summary

    What’s happened so far this morning?

    Politicians have been dashing around the country this morning as they look to make the most of the final day of campaigning:

    Boris Johnson is piling on the metaphors to hammer home his core campaign message of “get Brexit done”. He made an “oven-ready pie” in Derbyshire, saying it was a symbol for his deal, and began the day “delivering” to voters – milk, that is. He says the contest at this election “could not be tighter”.
    Earlier, Conservative colleague Michael Gove defended the PM’s response to a photo of a sick boy who was forced to sleep on a hospital floor and insisted his boss was an empathetic individual
    Jeremy Corbyn’s first stop of the day was in Glasgow, where he argued Labour’s campaign had been “positive” while his opponents had been “negative”. He urged voters to back Labour to bring about real change.
    But 15 former Labour MPs have urged voters not to back Mr Corbyn, citing his record on anti-Semitism and “extremism”. The group includes several outspoken critics of the leader, such as Ian Austin and Louise Ellman.

    Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson told party supporters in London that the last few hours would be “vital” as people were still making up their minds. She insisted Mr Johnson “doesn’t deserve your vote”.
    SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, on the campaign trail in Edinburgh, said a “Tory victory can be stopped”, adding that in Scotland the SNP were the main challenger to the Conservatives. She called “get Brexit done” a “con”.
    Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage says he fears a Tory majority would see “Brexit sold out” – he’s gone much colder on Boris Johnson’s deal in recent days. He also says his party are challenging Labour “quite strongly”. You can see the latest opinion poll trends with the BBC’s poll tracker
    And last but not least, with trust a big theme of this campaign, Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price is using its final day to publish a draft law which would make lying by politicians a criminal offence.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Local polling to us is showing the seat is going to go Tory. 4,500 majority for our present Labour MP looks like being overturned and we’ll be getting some Tory sock-puppet instead

    you mean the local councillor who is the conservative candidate

    the labour candidate despite loving his picture being taken with all and sundry still hasn’t put an image with him and Corbyn anywhere into his campaign (does one exist?). Notorious for jumping on any local campaign/ issue to claim he sorted it. Puts his kids into a campaign video puff piece, etc etc

    If he does get dumped out the local councillor who works in his office might have time to do some activities related to his office rather than being his bag man/ photographer etc

    Klunk
    Free Member

    it’s just appeared on the feed ! only a few hours late

    frankconway
    Free Member

    Klunk – this morning’s sweary bit has just appeared on BBC news website.

    sargey
    Full Member

    Quandary time for me. Bojo is a complete bellend but I just can’t bring myself to vote for corbyn mainly because of the union backing.
    Shall we run a book on when the first strike will be if Labour get in.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    You do know about the regular rail drivers strikes that are already happening under “BoJo” and Grayling and co? Yes?

    And when did you last talk to a “Junior” Doctor @sargey ?

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    lol, aye, strikes only happen under a labour government!

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    Never really understood the objection to unions by ‘normal’ people, at least. I mean sure, if you’re a mill owner, or the owner of British Leyland and prioritise having a solid gold Rolls Royce over working conditions, quality of your product and R&D, then yes, but anyone else, nope. Unions are pretty much the only check and balance against worker exploitation, as evidenced by zero hour contracts and the like.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Long memories of public services grinding to a halt due to strikes. On the other side, better funding and appreciation of public services might mean fewer, not more, strikes… and you won’t be getting that from Johnson and his people once they have a safe majority.

    doris5000
    Free Member

    Shall we run a book on when the first strike will be if Labour get in.

    not sure which planet you’ve been on lately, but Rail Workers, Nurses, Cleaners and university lecturers have all been on strike just in the last week alone.

    AlexSimon
    Full Member

    I had a pretty poor impression of union bosses in the 80s – jaguar-driving, chain-smoking, fat cats is the vision I had on the telly. I was in early teens and impressionable – it took a while for me to see that this was a stunt to make me feel like Trade Unions were corrupt and past their sell-by date. I didn’t know much about the history of the tory party then.

    jimdubleyou
    Full Member

    Shall we run a book on when the first strike will be if Labour get in.

    Won’t be too hard, SW trains are already on strike, so 13th Dec has my bet…

    sargey
    Full Member

    I suppose its memories of doing my homework in the seventies with power cuts that sticks in my mind.
    Just ignore me (everyone else does) and I will continue to mull over who to vote for but for the first time in 41years of being able to vote I don’t think I can put an x in any parties box.

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    on that basis, don’t vote for the party you want, vote against the one you want least and use your vote tactically. Don’t waste it or not use it at all.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    @sargey, please, PLEASE vote Labour. Hold your nose, look the other way, I accept that Corbyn is damaged goods. But at least Labour is the right direction. Boris does NOT have yours or my or anyone other than his own and his friends interests at heart.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    No one is ignoring you @Sargey, and an awful lot of people feel the same as you. I have lots of negative stuff to say about all the possibilities myself! The party that now carries the “Conservative” name needs to be stopped though… they’ve been careful to avoid any detail about what they want to do once they get a majority… but just pick any of the new cabinet ministers and read what they have said and written in the past (rather than their careful non committal stances and comments this year). They are a serious threat. Vote to try and deny them your seat. Please.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I will continue to mull over who to vote for but for the first time in 41years of being able to vote I don’t think I can put an x in any parties box.

    Well there is that in terms of it being an election run on lies, spin, misinformation and soundbites. Coupled with the worst Government in living memory, an opposition that barely exists and a completely divided country (rich/poor, leave/remain or whatever division you want to set) and “none of the above” seems like a good option.

    Failing that though, I cannot understand how anyone could look at the state of the UK now and go “ooh, 9 years of the Tories, hasn’t it been great, let’s have another 5 years of that!”

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    Hold your nose, look the other way, I accept that Corbyn is damaged goods. But at least Labour is the right direction. Boris does NOT have yours or my or anyone other than his own and his friends interests at heart.

    Very much this.

    There are two buses you can get on.

    Both are driven by maniacs.

    One of those buses is facing directly off a cliff and the other isn’t…it’s going broadly in the direction you want  and that driver is likely to be forced to ask an actual  grownup* to help him steer.

    *i’m voting for the grownup because that’s an option available to me that might not be to you

    doris5000
    Free Member

    I will continue to mull over who to vote for but for the first time in 41years of being able to vote I don’t think I can put an x in any parties box.

    well that’s fair enough, you’re certainly not alone!

    IMO it will either be a full Tory government, or a hung parliament with the Tories as the biggest party. Those are the only 2 options, and the latter is slightly less disagreeable, so I’ll be pointing my vote in that direction. I’d recommend you do too, but I agree it’s hardly an inspiring choice….

    avdave2
    Full Member

    I’m voting Labour purely for the reason of wanting a hung Parliament. There is no danger of a Corbyn led majority government but there is a very real danger of a Johnson led one. Only one party has the potential to form a majority government and for me the most important thing in this election is that neither of them and neither party have a majority. The only hope for this country is a situation in which both parties realise that there is no way forward without compromise.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Never really understood the objection to unions by ‘normal’ people, at least.

    Unions have been awesome, and hopefully will be around for a very long time. (I’ve worked in Unionized and non-Unionized businesses and conditions/culture/respect for staff were far better in the Unionized ones.)

    …but Mrs OOB is in a unionized job and the flaw (if there is a flaw) is that they’ve negotiated her a stonking great salary based on years service. Which is great. But she’s so expensive now she can’t move jobs within her own industry because nobody can afford to hire a new person with that length of service. ie Unions are *so* good at negotiating terms and conditions that they can end up pricing their staff out of the market.

    The 4 day week is similar. The government can force my company to give me a 4 day week at full pay and it sounds great. But what will actually happen is I’ll no longer be affordable and they’ll just outsource my Job abroad. In theory the government have negotiated me a day of every week for life. In fact they’ve just got my job outsourced. Maybe negotiating a better deal is better managed by individuals who have a good grasp of what they think they can get away with.

    I can’t help but wonder if train guards are the same, maybe their Union have negotiated them such a good deal that it actually makes sense to automate trains and make them all redundant.

    We hear a lot about not getting into a race to the bottom, fair enough but the only thing worse than winning a race to the bottom is losing it!

    kerley
    Free Member

    If you like Labour types of policies but don’t like Corbyn then Green party is the obvious choice. That is who I vote for but then my vote makes no difference anyway unfortunately.

    Del
    Full Member

    Meh, too late

    Klunk
    Free Member
    outofbreath
    Free Member

    “ooh, 9 years of the Tories, hasn’t it been great, let’s have another 5 years of that!”

    Have you thought through the implications of a 4 day week?

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    I can’t help but wonder if train guards are the same, maybe their Union have negotiated them such a good deal that it actually makes sense to automate trains and make them all redundant.

    This point truly highlights the elephant in the room. It boils down to whether you view people or money as more important. What is the point in any organisation be it public, or private? Is it JUST to deliver VFM to the shareholders (in which case, in this age of burgeoning automation, supercharged by AI) 95% of us will face the scrap heap in our lifetime, or is it to provide a service to humans, whilst delivering a decent quality of life to it’s workforce?

    I don’t know the answer; it’s a philosophical one rather than a practical one anyway, but I know which sounds more palatable.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Vince sides with Corbyn (sort of)

    Well not really:

    That is why I am out campaigning for Liberal Democrat gains where possible – Esher and Walton, Wokingham and Wimbledon to name just a few – and supporting tactical voting for Remain where necessary.

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    I lost any faith I had in Unions while at a tribunal where I was a witness supposedly on the same side as the Union.

    They tried to throw my fellow claimees under the bus, contradicted themselves and outright lied about the situation in the company before it folded.

    Despite their efforts, we won. Thanks to good work by the legal team we paid for because the union wouldn’t

    GMB-don’t waste your money

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    Concept of unionised workforce trashed by single poor experience with single union, that still won.

    Okay (literally) boomer.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Have you thought through the implications of a 4 day week?

    Yes, increased productivity while at the same time workers working less hours and enjoying their lives more.

    I doubt many people’s words on their deathbed are “I wish I spent more more hours of my life working for company x”

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Power cuts affected everyone, so they had high profile. There are worse things happening right now, under Tories, but if you’re not sick or have money then you don’t see it so you don’t care.

    Quandary time for me. Bojo is a complete bellend but I just can’t bring myself to vote for corbyn mainly because of the union backing.

    If you vote Labour some rich people will whine about being slightly less rich. If you vote Tory people will die because of it.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    It boils down to whether you view people or money as more important.

    No.

    People are more important than money but people’s work has a market rate.

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