Daz – you do realise that there’s a whole world between the unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism being offered by the present Tory party and your solution of revolutionary ‘to the barricades’ socialism

What you call ‘selling out’ other people refer to as ‘compromise’.

What kind of compromise policies would be in your perfect manifesto?

I’m not convinced the current Labour manifesto could be described as “‘to the barricades’ socialism” when nearly every part of it is happening in other countries (many in Europe) that wouldn’t be called socialist countries.

Yet you never questioned the initial conclusion jump that he was a white supremacist?

I didn’t jump to that conclusion either. I assumed that either that is indeed what he intended or it was a stupid troll that’s blown up in his face, my point was simply that going “it means OK” is probably the least likely possibility out of the available options.

Never questioned the post hoping he will now be out of a job/uni?

I missed that post, and wouldn’t wish that outcome on (almost) anyone. Do I have to question everything in order to win my Mass Debaters 2019 badge?

Saying you’ll nationalise all the water and power companies within your first 100 days in government, as John MacDonnel did yesterday, but that’ll you’ll be the ones deciding what you’ll be paying for them is quite ‘to the barricades’ in most peoples book.

The actual quote is:

‘In our first 100 days we will start the processes of bringing water and energy into public ownership.

I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.

I have no agenda here, but having played that game and knowing people that still play it to wind each other up I can see the other argument as being far more likely. This just seems to be people leaping to conclusions based on nothing.

Selective quoting and understanding and stealth editing. But Squirrelking’s link is there for all to see and clearly contradicts his point of view. Not that I’d use the ADF as a source myself given their baggage.

It was a bit lengthy to quote the lot, perhaps you could post the section that contradicts my point of view?

As for baggage, you stick to your “sources” (Urbandictionary – LOL) and I’ll stick to mine.

Labour have no plan to get hold of any of that cash

I don’t think that’s what he was saying. Just a dig at the fact that billionaires use tax havens to create money for themselves.

Expecting billionaires and corporations to pay their tax is not revolutionary socialism.

Indeed it isn’t. Thats why I didn’t even suggest that it was. It makes perfect sense and good luck to them. Who wouldn’t want that. I doubt its going to be simple though

But confiscating private assets is very much revolutionary socialism. And while it sounds great in theory, the practical immediate implications of it, seeing as we’re still part of a globalised economy, would be serious and long term.

Ask the people in Venezuela how its working out for them?

Meanwhile, Japans rail network relies on no subsidies whatsoever and shits all over even the best European rail networks.

Could it be, that we’re just a nation of outright incompetents?

Even if you are in favour of private railways (I’m not) the rush job that Major’s government pushed through is hard to support. Things still need sorting because of it. Even if we don’t slowly bring elements back into state ownership (a Labour policy that looks well thought out and has public backing well beyond the cultists who tell us we’re not pure enough to vote Labour), it still needs addressing. What do the Conservative party say about it in their manifesto…?

The only places I can think of that have done any significant nationalization in recent years are Zimbabwe and Venezuela.

Another expert on Venezuela! I hear private enterprise is alive and well in Somalia.

Closer to home water companies are being taken back into public ownership in France and Germany, to name but 2.

Not sure Japan is a useful comparison? Culturally it has little in common with UK, and work culture also completely different.

Were UK trains lots better when they were publicly owned? I didn’t think so but maybe my experience was unusual and they were much better as British rail in most places.

Were UK trains lots better when they were publicly owned?

Was ANYTHING better in those times? Comparing how things were yonks ago with how they are today is comparing apples with … umm … pineapples?

Likewise the lazy “Venezuela” jibe – Venezuela is like it is as a result of a whole history that has got nothing to do with Britain or the British political scene.

They’re proposing nothing more than sensible state regulated free market capitalism

Yeah, that’s my thoughts. The Labour plans still have capitalism folks! Lots and lots of it in fact.

To me, this is the compromise! This is the middle ground, socialism where it’s needed and works best, capitalism where it doesn’t.

To me, this is the compromise! This is the middle ground, socialism where it’s needed and works best, capitalism where it doesn’t.

What social democracy? As practised in more enlightened nations?

Centrist phone has revised to 4.45% lead for the Tories.

Interesting analysis.

“A 4.45% lead on polling day would be a 1% swing to Labour in Lab held seats. And a Lab minority govt”

Id love him to be right, but I dont as a nation think weve reached peak stupid yet, so itll be Bojo for 5 years followed by someone worse , Grayling?

Nah, you can bake failure into the institutions. Not so much of a problem when failure doesn’t impact everyone and everything… a nightmare when it is a monopoly provider of a service set up by a government in a rush to prove its privatisation zeal before an election hits them.

Id love him to be right

His credentials are he predicted 310 Tory seats in the 2017 election. And a hung parliament.

He claims he found issues with weighting and remodeled them.

Indeed… the Tories walked us into this Brexit mess, and have no plan to get us out of it… let’s turn to them to sort it… the Tories have culled police numbers… let’s turn to them to make us safe… the Tories have undermined teachers… let’s turn to them to sort teacher retention… the Tories have removed nursing bursaries… let’s turn to them to get more nurses trained… the Tories promised us easier access to our GPs, but it’s getting harder and harder to see one… let’s turn to them to sort out GP shortages…

I’m still a bit undecided about my vote direction this coming Thursday.

I’ve obviously taken into consideration what I consider to be the following swaying points on the two main parties.

On the one hand the Conservative Boris Johnson is a bit of a rascal with the ladies and can sometimes bend the truth a bit, he’s also a bit posh.

And on the other hand..

Labours Jeremy Corbyn Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Opposed shoot to kill.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.

So it’s a tricky one really 🤷‍♂

To me, this is the compromise! This is the middle ground, socialism where it’s needed and works best, capitalism where it doesn’t.

Socialism can still exist with private companies. Socialism does not mean everything has to be nationalised, it means things are done for the good of society so if letting a private company provide for the nation just ensure the private company is governed correctly and put policies in place to ensure it does what the country needs and not left to it own devices.