• This topic has 6,282 replies, 176 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by kelvin.
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  • 2019 General Election
  • nickc
    Full Member

    Expecting billionaires and corporations to pay their tax is not revolutionary socialism

    Given that one of the main points of becoming a company is to limit one’s exposure to taxation as much as possible; Then yes, expecting companies to pay more tax is literally revolutionary.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    There’s never been a better time to be out of govt.

    Now so many of your posts make sense Daz.

    dazh
    Full Member

    Now so many of your posts make sense Daz.

    Simple CBT to avoid post election depression. 😀

    The world will keep turning, most people will get on with their lives as before, and we’ll all still be specks of irrelevance compared to the universe. Carry on…

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Irony on overload… Johnson ‘lie in front of the bulldozer’ has a new bit of childish trolling for Social Media, as he metaphorically flattens the UK (take a look at the latest growth figures) by driving a bulldozer through a wall of polystyrene bricks. They are laughing at us.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    C’mon guys it’s all going so well, happiness everywhere you go, it’s wonderful.

    NHS no waiting and fighting to get basic treatments. Ditto almost all public services, some of which have been reduced to shambolic levels, so the private sector can swoop in and save the day like they always do. Choo choos dirt cheap, no hassle or jumping through hoops. Lecy and gas too cheap innit. Violent crime that’s going down isn’t it. Who doesn’t like working harder, longer, for less with no job security to keep you malleable, it’s brillliannntttt. Tax shmax, let the little people pay it, at source, out of their wages. I mean why should anybody own anything, when we can rent it to the clowns and enjoy perpetual growth.

    I think they were right a bit of austerity has been good for the country. It’s going down well across the continent, they love it too!

    Cougar
    Full Member

    On the one hand the Conservative Boris Johnson is a bit of a rascal with the ladies and can sometimes bend the truth a bit, he’s also a bit posh.

    “Bend the truth a bit”? Do you also consider the Third Reich to be “a tad naughty”? Jimmy Savile to be a “cheeky wee scamp”? Good grief.

    Have you fact checked any of those Corbyn claims? Of course you haven’t. I’ve just picked one at random: ‘Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.’ Five seconds’ googling gave me this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

    So yes, he did say it, ten years ago, and there is context as to why. And as you’ll see if you read that article, which you won’t, he’s since said he regretted it and apologised. (When has Boris ever apologised for anything, incidentally?)

    We live in a time where information can be disseminated widely and quickly, and disinformation likewise. You would do well to check that you’re not being manipulated and misled. Cos if it were me, I’d be quite cross about that and start to ask why.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    A lot of out of context and in most cases completely made up bullshit.

    Best to do a bit of homework before cutting and pasting from Facebook…

    LOL, when did that become an issue on here? This isn’t a place for”credible sources”, “facts” or “objectivity”!

    rone
    Full Member

    Or if he’s that bothered about Terrorists he could see the Tories are home to an ex-IRA member.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    I listened to Jonathan Ashworth’s explanation for his comments and I 100pc believe him. Why on earth wouldn’t you try to get your opponent to get a bit complacent and ease off. The last thing you’d ever say is “It’s tight, you need to work even harder”. For the reasons cited earlier on this aint gonna do Labour much harm anyway.

    “A 4.45% lead on polling day would be a 1% swing to Labour in Lab held seats. And a Lab minority govt”

    +1. Nobody can call this one.

    There’s never been a better time to be out of govt

    +1. In addition to all the obvious stuff we haven’t had a recession for about 10 years so one is due any minute and things are already looking to slow down. If someone wins a majority big enough that they’ll be in govt for 4-5 years they are very likely to get mullered in the next election.

    Have you fact checked any of those Corbyn claims? Of course you haven’t. I’ve just picked one at random: ‘Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.’ Five seconds’ googling gave me this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

    So yes, he did say it, ten years ago, and there is context as to why. And as you’ll see if you read that article, which you won’t, he’s since said he regretted it and apologised. (When has Boris ever apologised for anything, incidentally?)

    I fact checked a fair few as well and, like yours they did seem to be broadly true. In fact I was staggered how many that I hadn’t heard of were true and how often googling them lead to further stuff. EG googling the Roisin McAliskey one took me to these gems:

    Hornsey Labour Party had a poster displayed at its HQ depicted policemen as pigs wearing helmets. Corbyn’s “Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory” came up with “The capitalist police are an enemy of the working class. Support all demands to weaken them.” and London Labour Briefing included an editorial which said: “The street fighting was excellent but could have been (and hopefully in future will be) better organised.”.

    Now he’s on TV telling us he’s going to improve policing! Corbyn’s like Trump in that if you say five or six mad/stupid things (eg Bush Jnr) you’re mocked in the press forever. If you say a gazzilion mad/stupid things they get lost and none stick.

    Expecting billionaires and corporations to pay their tax is not revolutionary socialism

    Dunning-kruger again. Taxing people who are internationally mobile is impossible without agreement from all countries in the world. It sounds so simple to Corbyn and McDonnell because they haven’t thought it through, but on day one in office a Civil Servant who understands this stuff is going to explain to them why it’s nigh on impossible. Even if they pull us out of the EU to end Freedom of Movement of capital and people they won’t be able to keep company HQ’s in the UK or keep wealthy people – quite the opposite IMHO.

    Railway privatisation in the UK was a laboratory experiment that was designed in the EU.

    Can you honestly disagree with that?

    Yes, it’s bollocks.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    CON: 39% (-3)
    LAB: 36% (+3)
    LDEM: 12% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)
    BREX: 3% (-1)
    GRN: 3% (-1)

    Nail biting all round.

    rone
    Full Member

    Nail biting all round.

    It’s a fake.

    Britain Erects…

    mefty
    Free Member

    Nail biting all round.

    Fake poll

    rone
    Full Member

    MRP tonight.

    Let’s see the direction of the Labour campaign. Wasn’t it a 68 seat Tory majority last time?

    10pm.

    rone
    Full Member

    Enjoy this. This isn’t fake.

    All the evidence you need.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Nail biting all round.

    It’s a fake.
    Britain Erects…

    Nail biting all round.
    Fake poll

    Dammit, I genuinely thought that once, just bloody once, one of my political predictions had turned out to be right! 🙁

    Curse you CFH!

    rone
    Full Member

    Dammit, I genuinely thought that once, just bloody once, one of my political predictions had turned out to be right!

    You made a prediction on a poll or the final result?

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Can you honestly disagree with that?

    Yes, it’s bollocks.

    I replied to this earlier and then deleted my post because I didn’t want to (excuse me) derail the conversation. But there’s a grain of truth in it.

    Thatcher started the great privatisation sweep, and it was Major who privatised the rail system. Around the same sort of time there was an EU directive issued to separate trains from infrastructure in an effort to encourage competition rather than a monopoly. A bit like the LLU of BT if you like, forcing BT to allow other providers to use the phone system. But it’s something of a leap to go from the EU wanting to open up the rail networks to concluding that privatisation was “designed by the EU,” it was our lot that did that.

    Bit of a shock to see that the EU is copping the blame for something the Tory government did, really. I’ve never seen that happen before.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    At least put it got a little nibble!

    😀

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    You made a prediction on a poll or the final result?

    I was joking – in the post before I’d written it was too close to call and then CFH posts a poll that’s tighter than previous ones have been, hence “proving my prediction right”.

    I will make one more prediction though – CFH won’t be getting a Christmas card from the OOB family! I will never forgive!

    rone
    Full Member

    Ah. Didn’t spot it. I’ve been staring at this shit too long now.

    Thanks for the explanation.

    mefty
    Free Member

    I fact checked a fair few as well and, like yours they did seem to be broadly true. In fact I was staggered how many that I hadn’t heard of were true and how often googling them lead to further stuff.

    There is bucket loads of it, anyone who have followed politics for any length of time wouldn’t be surprised, he is the biggest scumbag ever to seek high office in this country – hopefully he will be dispatched to the nether regions of politics from which he should never have been allowed to emerge.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    What I don’t think the tory/cummings/vote leave fake news machine seem to understand or care about is that winning by lying cheating & just making shit up means half the country will never accept the result

    So the country remains bitterly divided….

    At least a lot of Tory bots, Michael fabricant & right wing ‘journos’ have been outed on Twitter over the boy in the hospital photo fake news smears

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50728920

    kimbers
    Full Member

    There is bucket loads of it, anyone who have followed politics for any length of time wouldn’t be surprised, he is the biggest scumbag ever to seek high office in this country – hopefully he will be dispatched to the nether regions of politics from which he should never have been allowed to emerge.

    He’ll just go back to his telegraph column

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    There is bucket loads of it, anyone who have followed politics for any length of time wouldn’t be surprised,

    Aye, like someone’s “true friend” who “brought democracy to Chile”. That sort of stuff?

    Careful with those stones, wouldn’t want to break any windows now would you?

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    Managed to get a 12 hour Twitter ban for telling the Sun Politics page to **** off and die after they posted this 😆

    somafunk
    Full Member

    rockape63 on the previous page living up his username, is this a case of nominative determinism or just another case of Facebook cut n’ paste idiocy at work?

    rone
    Full Member

    MRP. Yougov..

    28 Tory Majority down from 68.

    Hung Parliament within margin of error.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Owen Jones is a classic example of what wrong with the press. He’s a Labour Activist AND a Journalist. You can be one or the other IMHO, not both.

    ..but yeah, this has been the worst election yet for political lies and the article is well worth a read:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-50726500

    R4 PM covered it tonight was well – well worth a listen.

    The problem is us. In the social media age the only way to get your message to go viral is to make it incorrect. If you say you’re going to hire 35k nurses nobody shares it. If you say you’re going to hire 50k nurses it goes viral with people pointing out it’s 35k.

    Politicians will stop telling lies when we stop sharing lies.

    Ditto the Daily Mail and the rest of the gutter press. If they write a reasonable story/editorial nobody shares it. If they say something reprehensible it’s a total clickfest from people sharing it to show how reprehensible they are.

    People like to publicise the false claims of entities they disagree with. Hopefully that will change as we all get more media savvy.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Managed to get a 12 hour Twitter ban for telling the Sun Politics page to **** off and die after they posted this 😆

    At least we now know, were it ever in doubt, where Metfy gets their political guidance from.

    rone
    Full Member

    Owen Jones is a classic example of what wrong with the press. He’s a Labour Activist AND a Journalist. You can be one or the other IMHO, not both.

    But then that would be most of the newspapers gone, talk radio, LBC etc.

    Owen Jones is actually a columnist for the Guardian. He doesn’t speak for the Guardian.

    The Guardian has lots of opinions and many that don’t sit well with the Guardian’s editiorial point of view.

    I also think there’s a difference between a journalist and a columnist.

    Most people have opinions, it’s whether the establishment your work for dictates them.

    Also – look at someone like John Pilger – he will have been shaped by his journalism. So I’d say it’s possible to be both providing you can support your view accordingly.

    Whereas someone like Jonathan Freedland just used the Guardian to attack Corbyn.

    rone
    Full Member

    but yeah, this has been the worst election yet for political lies and the article is well worth a read:

    People keep saying this but it needs rephrasing to Tory lies. They’ve out stripped everyone by a huge magnitude.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    looking like thursday is going to be an absolutely foul day weather wise (well here anyway) feels like subzero temps till noon followed by heavy rain till 10 and not much warmer.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    People keep saying this but it needs rephrasing to Tory lies.

    Nah, they’re all doing it. My perception is the Torys have done more of it, but I’ve seen things from all the three main English parties that literally aren’t true. (As opposed to trying to mislead without actually lying which was the game before social media came along.)

    cromolyolly
    Free Member

    . You can be one or the other IMHO, not both.

    So where do you stand on being, say, the Mayor of London or an MP and writing fiction in the guise of a newspaper column?

    ctk
    Free Member

    At least Owen is out as Labour, I prefer it this way.

    I worry that the bad weather might keep all the younglings home.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    28 Tory Majority down from 68.

    A move in the right direction. Not enough though.

    Oh, and the Tory campaign is to repeat 4 key lies, and not even hide that they are lies. Cummings’ second success story, using the same techniques. And using both Media & Social Media to spread disinformation, blatantly. After it’s been shown to work, again, there is no way back. Our democracy totally debased. This isn’t just about a referendum in 2016, and an election now, this is about how you **** with the people enough to defeat democracy. People love, and vote for, Putin in huge numbers, “willingly”, don’t forget that.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Tories have 1 day left & polls looking twitchy for johnson

    Yesterday ‘Senior Tories’ made up a story about Matt hancock s aide getting punched

    Today they had an army of bots tweeting fake news , with Matt Hancock looking complicit (according to newsnight)

    What lies will come out tomorrow?

    jjprestidge
    Free Member

    We’re going to be right back where we started before all this happened, amusingly.

    JP

    greentricky
    Free Member

    Nah, they’re all doing it. My perception is the Torys have done more of it, but I’ve seen things from all the three main English parties that literally aren’t true. (As opposed to trying to mislead without actually lying which was the game before social media came along.)

    This is pretty damning of one party being more dishonest:

    It looked just at every paid-for Facebook ad from the three main UK-wide parties run over the first four days of December:

    For the Conservatives, it said that 88% (5,952) of the party’s most widely promoted ads either featured claims which had been flagged by independent fact-checking organisations including BBC Reality Check as not correct or not entirely correct. The figure includes instances of the same claims being made across multiple posts. One example was that Labour would spend £1.2 trillion at a cost of £2,400 to every household, which was contained within 4,028 ads. Those sums are significantly higher than others’ analysis of Labour’s plans

    For the Lib Dems, it said hundreds of potentially misleading ads had featured identical unlabelled graphs, with no indication of the source data, to claim it was the only party that could beat either Labour, the Conservatives or the SNP “in seats like yours”

    For Labour, it said that it could not find any misleading claims in ads run over the period

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-50726500

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