Viewing 40 posts - 4,841 through 4,880 (of 6,291 total)
  • 2019 General Election
  • Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    On that note, the tories plan to repeal the fixed term parliment act – what replaces it or do we go back to the previous way?

    There will be no need for future elections. Democracy stopped in 2016, remember?

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    My posts^^^ re Ashworth; wrong to refer to greg barker – it was greg baker.
    Ah well…..
    Still naive behaviour by Ashworth.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    They’re not scared to show support,

    Oh give over. We all know that not a single one of the blairite ****** were ever going to accept the fact that they stupidly handed over control of the party to the membership. And since then they’ve done everything they can to get it back, even stooping to smearing a lifelong anti-racism campaigner as an anti-semite because it suited their agenda.

    Anyway, they’ll be gone if labour loses. It’ll result in a civil war and bloodletting like we’ve never seen as the left, with nothing left to lose, finally takes it’s revenge and kicks them out the party. Why do you think Watson walked? He got out before he was pushed. If blairite MPs thought they were being picked on before, then they’ve seen nothing yet.

    Premier Icon oikeith
    Subscriber

    They all state that since 2017 the gesture is associated with race hate.

    Obviously we dont know the intent of the person on QT last night, but how if one is not a white supremacist would you know that the 30 year game played by children, teens and even adults has been taken up and is now a sign used by these people?

    When I saw this trending this morning, it was the clip where the guy laughs and then shows the clip, I had assumed he was being praised for playing this game whilst on live TV, I had not a clue this was linked to white supremacy. I was aware the Christchurch killer had done the sign, but had filed this under what a cock to have committed this crime and then show no remorse and show the circle game sign.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    The key here is context.

    Indeed it is.

    So under what context do you posit that a QT audience member – a show renowned for it’s totally unbiased selection of candidates in the audience, let’s not forget – is making a circle gesture below the waist with fingers pointing down in a manner which is intended to mean “OK”?

    Hell, who even says OK like that any more? I don’t think I’ve seen it since I was at school.

    I’d never even heard of it being a thing before until this thread but purely from the photo posted and, yes, context I think it’s fairly obvious what he meant by it. But yeah, maybe you’re right and he’s simply a Malcolm in the Middle fan or a misunderstood SCUBA diver on his day off.

    Edukator
    Member

    Selective quoting and understanding and stealth editing. But Squirrelking’s link is there for all to see and clearly contradicts his point of view. Not that I’d use the ADF as a source myself given their baggage.

    And another to ponder:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/03/ok-sign-gesture-emoji-rightwing-alt-right

    Beware the Cyclops

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Why do you think Watson walked?

    Wait, Tom Watson’s gone? How on earth did I miss that?

    Balls.

    rkk01
    Member

    I didn’t notice the “circle game” gesture during the show…

    … but the whole family, including teenage offspring where dumbfounded by the audience make-up…

    Our kids experience from school, work, college etc was that no way the audience represented the balance of views amongst their age group (audience included a lot of pro Brexit, Pro-Tory, right wing youth etc)

    Given the context of a (suspected) unrepresentative audience, then a darker meaning to the gesture could well be correct

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Anyway, they’ll be gone if labour loses. It’ll result in a civil war and bloodletting like we’ve never seen as the left, with nothing left to lose, finally takes it’s revenge and kicks them out the party. Why do you think Watson walked? He got out before he was pushed. If blairite MPs thought they were being picked on before, then they’ve seen nothing yet..

    Could you talk us through how kicking out all the moderates (who are the only ones with any obvious ability) in some far left coup is going to make voting for the labour party more appealing to anyone who’s politics have developed slightly further than common room placard-waving?

    Or (and I think I know the answer to this one already) does that not really matter, as getting elected is a bourgeois construct?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Could you talk us through how kicking out all the moderates

    I never said I support it, it’s just obviously what’s going to happen (I’m an observer BTW as I’ve never been a labour member or been active in labour campaigns). In an ideal world the blairite MPs would have respectfully accepted that their time was up (after two election defeats), and got behind the rest of the party. They didn’t even have to support it, they could have just gone back to their constituencies and carried on campaigning on local issues like most backbenchers do. They didn’t do that though did they? Instead they spent their time doing the tories job for them by disgracefully smearing Corbyn as an anti-semite and jumping on whatever hysterical bandwagon passed by. Well rightly or wrongly it’s not going to be forgotten, and they will have only themselves to blame.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Wait, Tom Watson’s gone? How on earth did I miss that?

    Really? Where’ve you been?

    benv
    Member

    When the same person is reguarly sexist, thinks it’s OK to use the circle gesture and the JD expression it’s not nasty to point it out.

    The member in question has been around for only 4 weeks, until there is any eveidence to the contrary I’ll take his stories with a pinch of salt, object to his sexism and argue against the use of JD and the circle symbol being “innocent” on 10/12/2019.

    The key here is indeed context. The context of the QT interview was one of racists being racist. The context of this forum is one of an Internet in which alt-right trolls and bots are doing their utmost to influence an election result. If you think STW is immune, think again.

    Lol. think you better go have a lie down pal.

    The guy on QT could very well have been making a white power sign or trolling to that effect. He could also just as easily been making a circle sign below his waist as per the game so he can go home and give his flatmate a dead arm as he no doubt watched his appearance on tv. Best to reserve the hate and wishing him out of a uni course or job before the end of the week until proof is provided.

    This mindset you have where your own assumtions can replace any evidence or due process is frankly disturbing. You then use this as justification to launch witch hunts and pile ons when in reality you know **** all. I think you are well past the point of no return though, so there is very little benefit to engaging with you any further.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Daz – I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?

    I don’t know if you remember the 80’s fondly, but at the time this wasn’t a great look, electorally-speaking, for the Labour Party, so trying to recreate it would seem somewhat ill-advised

    null

    kerley
    Member

    I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?

    The difficulty is selling yourself out and having policies you don’t even believe in but may win and would not be as bad as the tory policies. It is then getting the balance right in how far you have to go towards the tory policies to get the votes and then you just end up with another party similar to the tory party with a different name, brilliant.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    The guy on QT could very well have been making a white power sign or trolling to that effect. He could also just as easily been making a circle sign below his waist as per the game so he can go home and give his flatmate a dead arm as he no doubt watched his appearance on tv.

    Whilst this is factually correct of course, would you suggest that those two possibilities are equally likely?

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Daz – I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?

    Well of course he does, that was his excuse for supporting Corbyn’s stancefudge on brexit. apparantly if the racists were not appeased then labour could never win, funny that dazh has abandoned that logic on all other principles.

    Edukator
    Member

    so there is very little benefit to engaging with you any further.

    Excellent, Squirrelking promised me that years ago but has never kept the promise.

    benv
    Member

    Whilst this is factually correct of course, would you suggest that those two possibilities are equally likely?

    Yes, it’s almost certainly one or the other. All I’ve got to go off is a photo on social media, he looks young enough it could be a daft studenty game he is playing. I certainly wouldn’t be ready to burn him at the stake for it. If there was anything sinister about it, I’m sure the police will be investigating, I imagine there will be dozens of compaints made by now. Why are you so keen on social media (mob) justice?

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    he looks young enough it could be a daft studenty game he is playing.

    Sure, best possibility there is he is, in fact, an idiot.

    Why are you so keen on social media (mob) justice?

    I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.

    Yes, it’s almost certainly one or the other. All I’ve got to go off is a photo on social media, he looks young enough it could be a daft studenty game he is playing.

    Given there are a gazzilion students and almost no white supremacists I’d say the overwhelming likelihood is the gesture was totally innocent.

    If it wasn’t innocent we’ll be finding out very soon because his image has gone viral.

    EDIT: I’ve just seen the image. If I were someone who judged by appearances I’d say “He looks the sort.”. Fortunately I’m not so I’ll leave my comments above to stand. 🙂

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    BBC have had problems with QT producer involved in audience selection spreading far right propaganda before, so there is a suspicion about anything along those lines in the show

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/bbc-question-time-producer-britain-first_uk_5846dfabe4b019db8c11add0/

    The fact that it has featured so many Eurosceptic MEPs & virtually no pro EU ones also raises questions

    spreading far right propaganda

    They shared an image of a Poppy on FB! (…and you’ve just shared a link to the same post on STW!)

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.

    You’re doing it wrong… you are supposed to say everyone is a moron, a sucker, or something like that.

    benv
    Member

    I’m not, I’m just not keen to jump to the opposite conclusion because it suits my agenda either.

    Yet you never questioned the initial conclusion jump that he was a white supremacist? Never questioned the post hoping he will now be out of a job/uni?

    What do you think my agenda is in raising the good possibility that he might not be doing what some people were quick to assume as fact?

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    I’m calling bullshit on the White Supremacist thing.

    Has anyone watched the QT episode?

    The bloke in question applauds Humza Yussef and doens’t clap when pro brexit points are made.

    If he is a White Supremacist he is a pretty shit one

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    What do you think my agenda is in raising the good possibility that he might not be doing what some people were quick to assume as fact?

    I supplied the link explaining the many possible nuances… you just called anyone pointing out the 2019 political in context version a moron.

    The bloke in question applauds Humza Yussef and doens’t clap when pro brexit points are made.

    Interesting. Thanks Rich.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    I’m just checking, but you do know that in a democracy you actually need to appeal to enough of the population for them to vote for you?

    I know what democracy isn’t, and that’s appealling to enough billionaires to get them and their friends in the print  and broadcast media to prevent them making up slanderous lies about you. If that’s your entire solution for the labour party then they’ve already lost, because the policies will have been watered down to such an extent that nothing will change.

    Democracy is not pleading for a few scraps from billionaire tax evaders, it’s seizing the power from them and forcing them to pay their fair share. I really don’t see what is so ‘hard left’ about that.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Labour’s problem (well, part of it) is they didn’t call out the lies of the 2016 campaign, for fear of labelling voters as stupid for not seeing through the lies. They now have no way of countering Johnson’s team as they double down on the lies in 2019.

    This campaign is the 2016 one repeated… big spend on targeted lies on social media… promise money for the NHS that won’t materialise… tell people Brexit will be quick and simple… throw in some lines about filthy foreigners being allowed to “treat this country like it is their home”… keep things simple and vague so as to appeal to voters’ contradictory desires… “it’ll all be different and better than the status quo (which we created)”.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Anyone see ‘Corbyn reads mean tweets’?

    Tweet: Free university for everyone? Who’s going to pay for this? Corbyn still thinks there’s a magic money tree!

    Corbyn: Yeah, there is. In the Cayman Islands.

    He may not be the best opposition leader but he’s much funnier than Binners.

    The bloke in question applauds Humza Yussef

    Humza Yussef is a Nationalist.

    Case proven.

    Labour’s problem (well, part of it) is they didn’t call out the lies of the 2016 campaign

    Labour’s main problem is that they don’t appeal to labour any more. What used to be described as the working class are moving away from Labour in their traditional strongholds. Young people are replacing them but a)there aren’t yet enough of them and b) they haven’t historically voted.

    Stick any front person you like in there, any manifesto. You are still battling demographics.

    ransos
    Member

    He may not be the best opposition leader but he’s much funnier than Binners

    Surely we can set the bar a little higher than that.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Daz – you do realise that there’s a whole world between the unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism being offered by the present Tory party and your solution of revolutionary ‘to the barricades’ socialism

    What you call ‘selling out’ other people refer to as ‘compromise’.

    And this country is in the mess that its in at the moment, and our choices at this election look particularly bleak, largely because compromise and pragmatism are two things that both sides of the political spectrum have completely rejected.

    baboonz
    Member

    Perfect circle game placement, at the waist so to not break the in line of sight rule nor the above the shoulders rule. Out of the genital area so that the other guy trying to get the +5 doesn’t accidentally damage you . Casually resting on his body so that its not too obvious and people around cant get you for a +5 from behind. I’m a 90s kid, is there nobody else that played that game?

    The white power sign is meant to be the other way round. The three fingers make a W, and the circle and your wrist a P.

    Even if it was the white power sign, you could have all ignored it and not fed the trolling.

    Corbyn: Yeah, there is. In the Cayman Islands.

    Labour have no plan to get hold of any of that cash: Only one mention of Tax Havens in the Labour Manifesto and zero mention of any plan to aquire it. (Maybe that’s not true, he’s been saying for 40 years that we should leave and end free movement of people and capital which *would* help him aquire resources that currently end up abroad – but not the Cayman Islands which aren’t in the EU.)

    It’s just Dunning-Kruger – he thinks it’s easy because he knows nothing about Tax Policy.

    Humza Yussef is a Nationalist.

    Case proven.

    A Scottish Nationalist.

    He’s a Pale-Blue Supremacist

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Even if it was the white power sign, you could have all ignored it and not fed the trolling.

    Like you have?

    He’s a Pale-Blue Supremacist

    Putting burning porridge crosses on people’s lawns.

    kerley
    Member

    Labour’s main problem is that they don’t appeal to labour any more. What used to be described as the working class are moving away from Labour in their traditional strongholds.

    Agree. One day those people will wake up and realise voting tory may not have been their best bet but that’s democracy.

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