I don’t think thats this real issue. Theres an initial underlying wave of bemusement about player choices, and the lack of consitency at centre. That elevates into discontempt when you read through all the leaked issues that have been repeated in this thread.

We appear to have ruined our own RWC by indecision, paid-to-play players, nepotism and disagreement / argument on the training ground between coaches and players alike. It smacks of leaderless disorganisation not professionalism.

Now, if the team had consisted of the finest England players we have, in position, on form there would have still be some fan-bois discussion, but at least a silent acknlowedgement that we fielded our best and lost to better teams as opposed to not knowing what we fielded and losing to better teams.

Add to that the grovelling apologies from players, captains, coaches and continual facebook drivel which just makes it worse.

We want to see some quick professional action to (re)build a team ready to take on the 6N, and develop into a consistent International outfit for 2019, based on merit, skills in position and performance, non of the other BS. I don’t want to see Any Farrells son, the next RL convert or a junior experiement, I want the coaches to source and place the best in position players we have, and build them into a credible team.

I can’t help myself but I’m responding about England again 😳

@igm indeed, that’s why I’m dissapointed as we should have at least made it out of the group even if it was just one more match against SA or getting demolished by NZ in the semi. I think our record over the last few years has been pretty decent, a couple of matches (one where we couldn’t beat the ref and one where we failed to deal with a very predictable Irish first half onslaught) from 2 grand slams. What we have been is consistently good but not better than that. What the RWC has done is make the 6N less relevant as a tournament especially after the first 2 after the RWC.

@Krypton yes agreed especially this

Looking forward to the weekends matches, all the sides have earnt to their places and deserve to be there. A surprise would be nice but I think we’ll have to wait for the semi’s for that.

I’d say the 6N is plenty relevant to Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy and, yes, France. It’s 5 games of top class test rugby every year, as an antidote to the anti-climax of January & February. Perhaps england have spent 12 years working towards another RWC, but AFAIR, their last RWC was built on the back of superiority in the 6N. Perhaps if they took the 6N more seriously, they might build some momentum towards a RWC instead of the constant “We’re building, so work with defeats by lesser nations like Ireland and Wales…we’ve got our eyes on the big prize lads.”

(I actually think they take the 6N a lot more seriously than jamba would like us to believe…but twelve years of a superiority complex starts to look a bit silly after a while.)

Wales are 3 points better. 3 points.

England’s problem is they care too much about trying to win everything and don’t actually give the young guns or form players a decent chance as a result. The fact they have a poor recent 6N record isn’t from tinkering with different players at all

Still only 3 points away from wales. I’m happy to admit that england are shit, are you happy to say the same about wales, because that’s what it means.

Just watched Mike Brown demonstrating how NOT to tackle Sailosi Tagicakibau in the Quins/Wasps game.

It looked a bit like Tuilagi running over that Jap in the RWC with his knee. Wonder if Tagicakibau will be cited?

Worcester putting up a good fight against the Saints. Heathcote playing well but missed 3 penalties that would have put them out of sight….

I said I don’t take the 6N that seriously the first two years after the RWC, as I posted we had a good good chance of 2 grand slams. Over the last 15 years to me it’s always been about being in a position to win the RWC, so that means the matches against the Southern Hemisphere teams are key benchmarks of how we are doing as you can’t win the RWC without beating them.

@sputnik yup me too, looking forward to it

Yes, yes it is. As are the “we were only one try away…”, “we should have…”, “were it not for the ref, we would have…”

Cripes, Gray & Ford cleared on appeal!

Conspiracy corner… The three man appeal committee included one South African and one New Zealander. So no interest in giving teams the maximum chance of softening up the Aussies a bit before SA or NZ meet them then.

But it’s like I said, just robust rucking.

Here we go !

Oof!

Wtf!!!!!

HEEEEEEEY Biggarena!

Oh yeees!