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This topic has 7,395 replies, 232 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by WillH.

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2015-16 rugby, world cup year
loum
Free Member

DanW – Member
There’s some weird English infighting going on! English fans suggest (correctly IMO) that big Sam doesn’t deserve a WC spot and they get labelled Welsh Haterz and now English fans express feelings of uncertainty after some poor games and get called Welsh fanbois

POSTED 11 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

😆

Wow, another anti Burgess opinion added.
By my reasoning above, you’re either a rugby snob or a Wales fan ?
Do I owe you an apology?

😉

Posted 9 years ago

wrecker
Free Member

Seems to me that there are some league fans who were hoping big Sam to be better in Union than he is……

Posted 9 years ago

namastebuzz
Free Member

As Brian Moore rightly points out – Burgess should be considered for 2019.

Wasting time with him now is utter nonsense – shame on the coaching staff. They should have been looking at people who can already play Union.

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

a rugby snob or a Wales fan ?

I’m both. Do I get a prize?

🙂

Posted 9 years ago

tinybits
Free Member

Agree with the Burgess comments, the only league player who really made it that fast is Billy Whizz, but he’s a freak and his ability to beat players 1 on 1 (or sometime 9 or 10 on one) was like nothing I’ve seen again. To put him on as a substitute winger the right way of doing it, and in a few international games he’s gone to a nailed on full back.
He might make it in another couple of seasons, and I can see him nailed on by the end of the 6 nations, but not yet, not for the next 6 games!

Posted 9 years ago

namastebuzz
Free Member

the only league player who really made it that fast is Billy Whizz

He did have a spell with Bath about three years earlier too.

Israel Folau has probably made the fastest transition to world class level. His stellar performance in the first Lions Test of 2013 was after only 14 games of Super Rugby – during which he’d already been top try scorer for the Waratahs.

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

Didn’t Folau also release a range of backpacks?

Posted 9 years ago

loum
Free Member

namastebuzz – Member
As Brian Moore rightly points out – Burgess should be considered for 2019.
Wasting time with him now is utter nonsense – shame on the coaching staff. They should have been looking at people who can already play Union.

Brian Moore really can talk crap.
Whether Sam’s considered good enough for 2019 or not is one of the most irrelevant arguments he could possibly try to make. It’s got jack to do with selection for this WC. The choice isn’t between Burgess in 2019 and Burgess now.
Simple process for Lancaster – decide what jobs he needs his players to perform for him in this WC then choose which players are best suited to do that.

wrecker – Member
Seems to me that there are some league fans who were hoping big Sam to be better in Union than he is……

That sounds to me like the Brian Moore argument reworded.
Again, doesn’t matter how good he might have been compared to how good he is, those aren’t the options. It’s whether he can do a better job (as Lancaster sees it) than the other players in the current training squad.

Preferred your earlier argument that Burrell is a better centre than Burgess. You’re probably right overall, especially as cover for 13, but different coaches prioritize different skillsets.
They are probably more similar players than Burgess and Slade though. Can’t really understand why most commentators (eg Guscott) are claiming it’s between Burgess and Slade for the spot. For me , it’s not a choice between those two but between Burgess/Burrell.
Surely Cipriani’s similarity to Slade (playmaker covering same positions) makes him a bigger threat to Slade and vice versa, and Burgess to Burrell?

Would be intersted to see an England fan’s predicted/preferred 31.

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

Would be intersted to see an England fan’s predicted/preferred 31.

So would I. Problem is, with a few exceptions most on here would start with Wilkinson, Dilly Dally and Johnno! 😉

Posted 9 years ago

onehundredthidiot
Full Member

a-a I think you’ve omitted Dusty Hair from your line up.

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

and Rory Underwood.

Posted 9 years ago

wrecker
Free Member

Preferred your earlier argument that Burrell is a better centre than Burgess.

My argument never changed. And it is that Burrell is the better player, mainly because Sam isn’t an international standard centre, and also that he hasn’t earned a spot in the England rwc squad in 70 minutes of rugby. The whole thing is really bad behaviour by the management team, I’m sure because big Sam was promised a place before he ever played a game.

Posted 9 years ago

DanW
Free Member

Wow, another anti Burgess opinion added.
By my reasoning above, you’re either a rugby snob or a Wales fan ?
Do I owe you an apology?

All of the above 😆

I still believe England have too much talent at their disposal which is 95% world beating standard but lacking the final polishing (through lack of decent management/ coaching) to be a really great side. Too many form players have missed their opportunity to shine and it is only in the last year or so the squad selection has cast the net a bit wider, which I believe has actually brought some great new players in to the side. Feels like a few years too late but that is probably the pressure to win absolutely every game rather than build as such.

I don’t think any team is going to look at England and fear them… but then maybe that works in their favour. I think we can expect the side to be picked on the basis of avoiding f*ck ups rather than reeeaaaallly proactively going after a match which to be fair is a very pragmatic approach to any team based tournament. Again, the lack of “ambition” in the squad selection most of us expect will probably actually work in their favour as the tournament progresses. Not what the more neutral fans perhaps want to see but I guess an English fan is happy to win ugly if it means winning just like the rest of us with our teams

Posted 9 years ago

Kryton57
Full Member

Excellent summary DanW

Posted 9 years ago

Kryton57
Full Member

When in need…

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/9965226/dylan-hartley-not-ruled-out-of-england-squad-says-graham-rowntree

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

Might as well get this out of the way.

Posted 9 years ago

tinybits
Free Member

Shockingly, I’m pleased that the headbutting, punching, gouging kiwi biter may get a call up – and I really rate Tom Youngs, but there’s no way we shouldn’t have our best there.

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

oh shit our hookers are a bit crap

says Rowentree
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34055242

Too slow, got called away to an emergency spider removal!

Posted 9 years ago

DanW
Free Member

Hartley has been banned so many times they all blur in to one for me… I can’t even remember what his last ban was for!

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

there’s no way we shouldn’t have our best there for at most 70 minutes of the first game.

FTFY. 🙂

Posted 9 years ago

Kryton57
Full Member

Oh CFH, and here I was thinking “what should I do with my excess rum allowance…”

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

To be fair Hartley is a good player, strong in the scrum and very good arrows.

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

Kryton, I do very well out of Duty Free on my travels! Well enough to give you a hard time here!

Hope you had a cracking trip, by the way! Am more than a touch jealous.

Posted 9 years ago

Kryton57
Full Member

Ha ha, still two days to go…. And yes it’s been another great one…. Bahama’s planned for 2019.

Back to rugby, I’ve little doubt Hartely will be back Tbh, he’s proved his form. And phew… But who stays….. Youngs needs a good game now to keep his 2nd spot.

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

Indeed, back to rugby….

Hartley IS a good player, that much is true. However, he’s also a scarily regular liability, proven to snap far too easily. Every single opponent will know that. Every single ref will know that. He’s a marked man, not for his quality play, but as someone who WILL get a card during the WC if he’s picked. Can’t afford that level of liability in the WC in my opinion.

Posted 9 years ago

namastebuzz
Free Member

So England have realised that Tom Youngs is actually a shit hooker and that they might need Hartley after all.

I wonder if they’ve also figured out that their back row is equally shit at the breakdown and it might be worth giving Steffon Armitage a shout – probably not until after they’ve lost to Australia and/or Wales…..

Posted 9 years ago

wrecker
Free Member

F*** stefon armitage.

Posted 9 years ago

tinybits
Free Member

In which case they probably also need a full back. Delon? and a prop – Stevens?

Posted 9 years ago

dantsw13
Full Member

My England 31
Hartley, youngs, Webber
Mako V, Marler, Cole, Brookes
Lawes, Launchbury, Atwood, Kruis
Robshaw, Wood, Billy V, Morgan, Haskell

Care, Youngs, wigglesworth
Ford, Farrell
Barritt, Joseph, Burrell, Slade, Burgess
May, Nowell, Watson
Brown, Goode

With a starting XV:
Vunipola, Hartley, Brookes
Lawes, Launchbury
Robshaw, wood, Morgan

Care, Ford,
Burrell, Joseph
May, Watson Brown

Bench: mako V, Youngs, Cole, Attwood, Haskell, Youngs, Goode, Slade.

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

Englands problem is a lack of stand out world class been there and done it players. Players like Brown, Ford, Care, B Youngs, B Vunipola, Robshaw,Lawes, Lauchbury and Cole etc are all quality internationals but are they top class. Wales have a few in AWJ, Warburton, Roberts and maybe North and Halfpenny maybe not much better but they have experience and Lions test caps. Wales problem is we have some more players like Ball, 2015 Gethin, Cuthbert, Priestland who are barely test class and then some really dross like Jarvis, Dacey, Andrews who are barely pro class. The England squad on average is much stronger and their test front 5 is stronger than the welsh by a long way.
Tuilagi is a big loss imo as he is a special player. Shame for you lot that him and May have never been paired together. Ford, Tuilagi and May looks like a potent midfield to me.

Edited… I dont mean May do I! Joeseph.. he could be one of those stand out players

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

dantsw13…Hartley isnt in the squad and is still banned. Other than that it looks about right. England could be in trouble if Robshaw gets a knock as it would mean Hask at 7 and the seemingly out of form Wood at 6.
If you start with M Vunipola v Wales I will be very happy.

I’ve little doubt Hartely will be back Tbh, he’s proved his form.

How has he done this whilst banned?

Posted 9 years ago

tiggs121
Free Member

I concur with the exceptions of Haskell for Wood, Youngs for Hartley and Burgess for Burrell.

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

dantsw13…Hartley isnt in the squad and is still banned.

And you appear to have Billy Vunipola as a prop! Your test 8 has to be Billy V over Morgan surely. Morgan was awful v France at twickers…unsuprisingly given his broken leg.

Posted 9 years ago

dantsw13
Full Member

Oops – I made too many edits without cross-checking 😳

Hartley will be available after the Fiji game. I know he’s out of the squad, but I would have him.

I prefer Marler as my starter with Mako for impact.

I know Morgan is still short of fitness, but if he plays the Ireland and Fiji games he will be ready for the big games. As with his brother I think Billy V is a bigger impact player whereas Morgan has a better all-round game.

Posted 9 years ago

dantsw13
Full Member

Once squads are announced, are injury replacements allowed?

Posted 9 years ago

wrecker
Free Member

Yes but can’t play for a bit (71 hrs?)

Posted 9 years ago

Kryton57
Full Member

So how many hours after a hooker gets injured against Fiji is there before Hartley can play Wales? 🙂

Posted 9 years ago

CaptainFlashheart
Free Member

Approximately ten times the time difference between Hartley taking to the pitch and going for a little sit down for ten minutes.

;’)

Posted 9 years ago

namastebuzz
Free Member

Hartley, George, Weber
M Vunipola, Marler, Cole, Wilson
Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Easter
S Armitage, Robshaw, Wood, B Vunipola, Morgan,

Care, Youngs, Simpson
Ford, Farrell, Cipriani
Joseph, Burrell, Slade, Eastmond
May, Wade, Watson
Foden, D Armitage

Posted 9 years ago

anagallis_arvensis
Full Member

Good work thats 5 players not in the extended squad. Whats the point of Easter over Attwood when you have two 8’s anyway and he wouldnt be as good as Attwood asca lock and be shite as a 6 and even shitier as a 7? Steffon can cover 6, 7 and 8 (with his gut he could cover more).

Posted 9 years ago

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