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a different helmet ...
 

[Closed] a different helmet debate

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Risk compensation is behaving differently because you're wearing safety gear.

How can you possibly know that's not going on?


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 10:52 pm
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I'm no scientist but above say 10-12 mph, a helmet is purely cosmetic. If you slipped on ice on the way to the bus stop and fell on your head then I'm sure a helmet would provide viable protection. Hit a tree at 22mph on a trail then it's no better than a lottery.


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 10:54 pm
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If you're not a scientist, why make a scientific statement?


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 10:58 pm
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[i]How can you possibly know that's not going on?[/i]

Look where mandatory safety measures have been introduced and see whether they have impacted KSi's. If they do then people are not risk compensating.

A good way is looking at behaviours over time.

Say, seat belts. You could argue that once seat belts were made mandatory, people would automatically risk compensate and drive worse but there's no evidence to suggest that's happened. In fact the opposite is more evident. People have become safer drivers because they're more risk aware by the very introduction of the law.

Obviously this is all my opinion. I suspect there's no real evidence one way or the other. I know that I don't ride/ski any different whether I wear a helmet or not. I expect Schumaker is a very risk aware individual and doesn't change his behaviour either (although I'll accept his risk tolerance is probably a lot higher than mine).


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 11:02 pm
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although the report referenced here suggests people are risk compensating.
[url] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sports/on-slopes-rise-in-helmet-use-but-no-decline-in-brain-injuries.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0 [/url]


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 11:10 pm
 irc
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I'm no scientist but above say 10-12 mph, a helmet is purely cosmetic. If you slipped on ice on the way to the bus stop and fell on your head then I'm sure a helmet would provide viable protection. Hit a tree at 22mph on a trail then it's no better than a lottery.

Well since the 11mph impact is the design fall speed helmets are tests at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_1078

and a 22mph crash has 4 times the energy to cope with how good can a helmet be?

As for risk compensation the classic study is the Munich Taxi Driver Study.

http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/road_safetyrisk_compensation/#cite_note-0


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 11:10 pm
 irc
Posts: 5339
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Say, seat belts. You could argue that once seat belts were made mandatory, people would automatically risk compensate and drive worse but there's no evidence to suggest that's happened. In fact the opposite is more evident. People have become safer drivers because they're more risk aware by the very introduction of the law.

The UK 1983 seatbelt law didn't save any lives overall. Drivers lives saved cancelled by more cyclists and pedestrians killed.

"Figure 1, all road accident deaths (excluding motor cyclists), shows that a well-established downward trend was interrupted (by the seat belt law?) and replaced by a slightly rising plateau. After the seat belt law (arrow) total deaths did not fall below the 1983 level until 1991."

[img] [/img]

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2009/11/05/seat-belts-another-look-at-the-data/


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 11:14 pm
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Looks like there's some debate there then. A quick google produces a number of graphs that look entirely different,

[img] [/img]


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 11:29 pm
 kcr
Posts: 2949
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[img] [/img]

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-different-helmet-debate

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/have-we-done-wiggle-backing-compulsory-helmet-laws-yet/page/2

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wiggo-on-helmets

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-do-you-deal-with-folk-not-wearing-a-helmet

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bike-helmet-for-kids

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-helmet-debate-rumbles-on-in-the-mainstream-media

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/would-you-helmet-nazi-content#post-3139927

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-another-study-on-the-efficacy-of-bike-helmets#post-3128520

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/thank-god-for-helmets#post-3071801

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/so-i-decided-to-write-off-my-helmet-today#post-3015561

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/will-the-uk-every-be-like-this#post-3001646

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/no-helmet#post-2983986

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-helmet-is-very-deformed-graphic-photo-content#post-2963127

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-woman-who-tragically-died-in-dent-on-the-letjog-ride#post-2956453

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmets-2#post-2941835

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cyclist-hit-15-times-with-hammer-by-driverfor-riding-too-slow-up-a-hill#post-2943106

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/this-really-makes-you-want-to-wear-a-lid#post-2919841

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/good-or-bad-advert#post-2894537

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/james-cracknell-wear-a-helmet-video#post-2783611

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bmxers-idiots#post-2758996

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/motorcyclist-protesting-helmet-laws-dies-in-bike-crash-while-not-wearing-helmet/page/3

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmet-compulsion-again

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/wear-a-helmet-kids#post-2705179

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-helmet-debate-on-radio-2-now#post-2584202

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/if-helmets-were-to-be-made-compulsory#post-2573922

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmet-on-your-child-always#post-2482018

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/some-very-sad-news#post-2476001

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-great-helmet-debate#post-2432920

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/kids-cycling-to-school-without-helmets-is-it-me-or#post-2368335

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/compulsory-helmet-law-in-ni#post-2236497

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-smug-will-tj-be

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmets-possibly-the-last-word

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anyone-else-hear-peter-thatchel-on-jeremy-vine-calling-for-compulsary-helmets/page/2


 
Posted : 01/01/2014 11:35 pm
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f you're not a scientist, why make a scientific statement?

How cynical-al!

A whole new debate - what constitutes a scientific statement....?


 
Posted : 02/01/2014 9:31 am
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You have to love the knee jerkers. Louis Hamilton in now "arrogant" and "insensitive" because he was XC skiing without a helmet and posted pictures of himself. The world is going mad!!!!


 
Posted : 02/01/2014 9:45 am
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although the report referenced here suggests people are risk compensating.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sports/on-slopes-rise-in-helmet-use-but-no-decline-in-brain-injuries.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

I read it more as equipment is getting better, so people can ski or board way outside their limits. This in turn is coupled with the energy drink culture. Hence more head injuries. It's not just helmets.

It does also say that head injuries that don't involve bringing your brain to a sudden decelerative stop have declined due to helmet use.

I have also read an article this morning that the people out skiing with MS have said it was an innocuous fall. He wasn't doing anything crazy, he had stopped to help someone get up, skied off, and got tripped up in such a way that he cartwheeled on to his head.


 
Posted : 02/01/2014 9:45 am
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