Yep. There it is. Religion. Still busy poisoning everything…

Catholic church.

They dont. At best they go for Theistic Evolution eg evolution is broadly correct but god intervened to make it happen.

Not convinced about this in a practical setting – I went to a Catholic school in the 80s and 90s, we learned evolution, just like my mates at non catholic/non denominational schools.

Without wanting to seem argumentative to anyone on this thread, it seems there’s a chasm between what people “think” is taught/goes on, and the real life reality of it. My theory (and it’s only a theory – I’ve neither the time, inclination or brain bandwidth to devote any significant effort to it) is that most normal people of faith/no faith aren’t the card carrying evangelists for their cause that some on the other side of the fence think they are. It’s just a small cog in the machine of their decision making process and how they live their life. But I’ve been exceptionally lucky to have grown up in a town and environment where I mixed with lots of different people, so saw the reality rather than the portrayal.

I’ve neither the time, inclination or brain bandwidth to devote any significant effort to it) is that most normal people of faith/no faith aren’t the card carrying evangelists for their cause that some on the other side of the fence think they are.

^ Exactly this.

OMG (ironic acronym), this is like a doorstep argument with a jehovah’s. Can everyone who seriously questions whether god is real, have a word with themselves, please? god is a character based on historic fables. The entity in question is fictitious, ok?

Which leads to …at one point there has to have been a first for everything

Without wanting to seem argumentative to anyone on this thread, it seems there’s a chasm between what people “think” is taught/goes on, and the real life reality of it.

At the moment the push from some faith groups is to control the curriculum and excuse parts of it.

In other (developed) parts of the world
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/11/the-right-to-expel-children-from-school-isnt-about-freedom-its-about-cruelty
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/15/labor-to-move-to-prevent-gay-teachers-being-sacked-from-religious-schools
Check the date those were 2018
In the US they want to stop teaching Evolution, in places they want to ignore things that they do not like.
There is a point to taking stand and making sure that reality is taught as such and religion studied

I’ve said this many times before, but with any demographic it’s a shouty extremist minority that give the rest a bad name.

I agree. Many atheists feel the same way about the New Atheism (i.e. blanket statements like “religion poisons everything”).

Not convinced about this in a practical setting

Obviously practice varies (look at mostly Catholic Italy and their birthrate to see that not all church positions are followed by the flock) but the official position is its theistic evolution. Theistic evolution isnt evolution. Its just admitting the evidence isnt in their favour and then fudging the results.
I went to a Catholic school as well. First few years it was sensible but in the final year a proper god botherer took over and the position became less balanced. The previous headmaster took the approach so long as you showed what he considered to be Christian virtues he wasnt overly fussed about what your position on religion was. A position I was semi impressed with at the time and as I have got older only got more so.
Likewise at 6th form the biology teacher was a creationist but never let that interfere with what he taught. It only came out in side conversations and never directly in his teaching.
Whilst confused about how he managed to balance the two I admire his approach.
In both of those cases I think they were both supporters of secularism (why is it people confuse secularism with atheism?).

Ok …the martians arrive tomorrow to discover we are all following a deighty of some sort.

Reckon they would have a definitive answer?

jj
time is short so I’ll just say….
Wow you really are full of it.
I’ve just spent a few weeks on a pro/anti Scottish independence thread and pretty much everyone there had more humility and self awareness than you.

Good luck with the big words.
Google ad hominem for useful information on how not to proceed.

OMG (ironic acronym), this is like a doorstep argument with a jehovah’s. Can everyone who seriously questions whether god is real, have a word with themselves, please? god is a character based on historic fables. The entity in question is fictitious, ok?

The problem is Jim its you on the doorstep. I have no doubt in my mind that God does not exist, but have you really written that post thinking you have converted anyone?

Anyway. Modern thinking is that the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Of course they are not. It is perfectly possible to accept evolution as a robust science based theory whilst having faith in a religion. Frankly, I’ve no idea how, but apparently it is possible.

To be fair evolution is just a theory

Be careful with “just a theory”. We are not talking hypothesis here.

so it was all from ‘the big bang’?

Mike, the links you provide are as heinous an indictment of Australia’s political leaders as it’s religious ones.

They are, but it’s been driven by the religious ones. Remind me which ones are preaching hate?

To be fair evolution is just a theory

Be careful with “just a theory”. We are not talking hypothesis here.

What is the alternate theory? what is the evidence against evolution?

so it was all from ‘the big bang’?

That would seem to be a reasonable conclusion.

What is the alternate theory? what is the evidence against evolution?

I’m not aware there is any.

I was initially sceptical about evolution, but then I tried internet dating.
There is definitely a link between physical unattractiveness and the inability to get a girlfriend and reproduce, so maybe that Darwin bloke was onto something after all.
How the hell am I expected to go forth and multiply with a face like a welders bench?!

How the hell am I expected to go forth and multiply with a face like a welders bench?!

Donate at the bank

I suspect handybar is more interested in the act than the result.

might be of interest to Some of you

I suspect handybar is more interested in the act than the result.

$$$$ then

and welcome to your ‘inventor’ of the ‘big bang Theory’ … yep a Catholic priest :O

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

Mike, when a thread on religion crops up do you and others feel the need to search up online to find where religion has ****ed up or done something reprehensible?

Do religious zealots do the same and come back saying global warming and the atomic bomb are the fault of scientists?

There can be conflict amongst religious groups, however religious belief is so prevalent to billions around the globe that exposure to it and more importantly a tolerance of it is what is required. Lets not add more intolerance to the mix.

Indeed, there is a long history of science and mathematics within “religious” structures. Science is based on fact, religion on faith, hence they can co-exist.

There can be conflict amongst religious groups, however religious belief is so prevalent to billions around the globe that exposure to it and more importantly a tolerance of it is what is required. Lets not add more intolerance to the mix.

I’m happy to be tolerant, I’m happy to live and let live, I do that a lot. It’s a shame that religion is one of those things that objects to tolerance in many cases, lobbies parliaments and legislators to preserve their tiny view on life.

ike, when a thread on religion crops up do you and others feel the need to search up online to find where religion has ****ed up or done something reprehensible?

No need to dig stuff up it just keeps coming up

If you are religious don’t have a problem with me have a problem with the leaders and those using the magic faeries against their wishes

God is a benign drunk and the world is his hangover.
Peter Cook.

Believe what you like (FWIW I know/think all god’s are false). As long as you keep it to yourself and don’t push your belief on others I don’t care what you believe.

But as a teacher, religion has absolutely no place in education other than as a ‘some people believe this’ piece of sociological information.

Mike,

after saying I am tolerant

If you are religious don’t have a problem with me have a problem with the leaders and those using the magic faeries against their wishes

Why be so facetious at the end?

The earliest examples of religious belief date back to 5000BC which is 20% of the way back to when there was another species of human on the planet. Hinduism dates back 4000 years, Judaism 3000 yeas, Christianity 2000 years and Islam 1500 years. If anyone thinks they can turn back that kind of tide based on a couple of sentences on a mountain bike forum in 2019 they are either an idiot or a blind zealot of the highest order.

Not at all but those are zealots who ware forcing their beliefs onto others rather than being tolerant. They are inflicting their views on others as they (generally the old white majority) are fighting hard to preserve what they remember not what the world wants to be,

The will of the Australian parliament can stand up to it.
By the same account a school can still hold a play based on Darwinism with minor changes. The OP talks of parents removing their children from the play. It could have still been held. Minor changes could have still seen the play go ahead with healthy debate on both sides IMO.

Mike, based on how humans have evolved are you being a zealot?

So which is the one true religion? Which am I offending the most?

Take the Hippocratic Oath as a guide – First Do No Harm, I don’t see Christianity of delivering on this, at each judgemental step they harm people they judge people against rules that are so far from modern life it’s laughable.
I’ve known Christians unable to marry in their local church , people shunned for they way they are,people pushed away for not conforming all due to the reading of a badly translated bit of fiction. Call me what you want but I welcome all and respect your right to exist and believe right up until the point it infringes on others(withing legal and actual moral lines) I don’t see the major christian religions abiding by this in the slightest, there is a huge body of evidence showing how they are discriminating, ignoring their own rules and covering shit up as it suits them. The catholic church is one of the worst multinationals out there. Ruthless to obtain a profit and customer base

The will of the Australian parliament can stand up to it.

To add they can unless they buy a majority of people, which you know would be immoral…… absolute **** **** the lot of them

The catholic church is one of the worst multinationals out there. Ruthless to obtain a profit and customer base

You completely and utterly miss the point mike. I am not a Catholic.
You should use that sentence to convince the 1.2 billion citizens of this planet that are Catholic.
If you convince 1/6th of the planet of their ills, come back in a couple of minutes to let me know how you got on please.

If you could also add an analysis of how that affects a play on Darwinism I would be very grateful because I cant be arsed.

God or evolution both involve a degree of faith

Evolution is a scientific theory. You can’t prove it’s true (like any theory) but you can do objective, repeatable scientific studies and experiments to test if the theory is false. If you don’t get a lot of evidence that it is false, you might tend to assume there’s a decent probability that it is true. Faith doesn’t really have a lot of bearing on probability.

God doesn’t involve “a degree” of faith. God is completely dependent on faith.
If you believe in God, then he exists for you, and that’s the end of the story. If you don’t believe, God has no substance, and falls apart like a house of cards.
Believe or don’t believe. It’s as simple as that.

Some people will explain God as a concept that represents the spiritual aspect of human consciousness; giving a name to something that is innate in the human brain. I can understand that as an intellectual exercise, but the idea of God as a supernatural entity that has an independent existence? Sorry, a’m oot!

Jeebus…
this is all getting a bit complex for a discussion over whether little Jimmy’s imaginary friend is real (spoiler:no) and whether little Jimmy’s going to go apeshit if you point out the truth (spoiler:**** yeah.. like you wouldn’t believe xo))

I just love the people who think that Prof. Dawkins doesn’t have the intellectual fortitude to tell you that mummy/daddy/nanny might have been making shit up.

If anything he’s been giving you too much credit.

Noone cares whether your imaginary friend is nice or nasty or weird or lovely or diabolical, whether he has inspired you to greatness, or just justifies your failures and offers you a sympathetic ear inside your head.

The point is that he/she is imaginary. Doesn’t exist, never did, never will.

Grasp that, take a walk, see that it makes sense, and then go out and be awesome to one another.

Cold hard science says that everyone you meet is just a temporary accumulation of stardust.

But a lot depends on perspective.

Others say that maybe we are the Universes way to know itself.

In many ways each person, or animal you meet is a miracle greater than any in your holy book.

It’s a wonderful world, so why waste your life on pish, lies and philosophical notions that predate the idea of washing you hands after you have a dump?

No atheist on STW ever floated an argument of “yes, but Dawkins says…”

I am not sure this is true, the OP was very keen on Dawkins and Hitchens ma.

Take the Hippocratic Oath as a guide – First Do No Harm, I don’t see Christianity of delivering on this, at each judgemental step they harm people they judge people against rules that are so far from modern life it’s laughable.
I’ve known Christians unable to marry in their local church , people shunned for they way they are,people pushed away for not conforming all due to the reading of a badly translated bit of fiction. Call me what you want but I welcome all and respect your right to exist and believe right up until the point it infringes on others(withing legal and actual moral lines) I don’t see the major christian religions abiding by this in the slightest, there is a huge body of evidence showing how they are discriminating, ignoring their own rules and covering shit up as it suits them. The catholic church is one of the worst multinationals out there. Ruthless to obtain a profit and customer base

So you have met some bad immoral people who identify as Christians, wow that’s a surprise – it’s a good job there arent immoral atheists then! You can’t tar everyone with the same brush, who is being judgemental here? Have you been to every church on the planet? have you seen how some churches actually are very accepting (mine has a good mix of ex cons, addicts etc and there is no judgement on people’s past lives because after all none of us are perfect!) Many are focussed on purely helping people (love Thy neighbour is the greatest commandment) You perhaps need to investigate a little further, you probably wouldn’t need to look too far to find some of these religious organisations are actually doing some good.

And evolution is just a theory. Show me proof or evidence that slime turned into humans. You could show me evidence that species have adapted to their environment and I will accept that, but that is a long way off evolving entirely new features and a fish becoming a walking warm blooded mammal for example. Yes we have fossils of lots of different species/organisms, none of those prove the transition that would be required so it could be assumed these have always been separate species in their own right (i.e. evolution isn’t true) since there is no actual hard evidence to prove otherwise… Just in the same way you assume evolution is true because again there is no hard evidence to prove otherwise. I don’t have any evidence to suggest that aliens don’t exist but doesn’t mean that they do.

Its not just a fringe of religious that attempt to thrust their views on the nonreligious and often succeed.

Any steps to allow dignity in death are opposed vehemently by the religious and so is a womans right to do as she wishes with her body.

This stinks.

Thatcherism wouldn’t have been possible with “The selfish gene”.

Has the OP lit a firework again and then failed to get away in time?

Has the OP lit a firework again and then failed to get away in time?

He’s too busy touching himself as he’s got what he was after.

Its not just a fringe of religious that attempt to thrust their views on the nonreligious and often succeed.

Any steps to allow dignity in death are opposed vehemently by the religious and so is a womans right to do as she wishes with her body.

The views for and against assisted suicide are not purely down to religious belief.

There is not a queue outside the door of Digitas made up of aethiest CERN researchers and rocket scientists.