but none have any proof in any way that they exist but I have to believe that they don’t exist?

Or hope, you decide

George michael?

Or hope, you decide

Nope neither required, do you have faith Odin isn’t about? What about Zues?

I know the weather has been a little changeable today, but that was a cracking ride. A little spot of lunch en famille, and time to light the fire and settle down in front of the rugby.

I wonder what other folks on STW have been up to today….

Oh. I see.

😂😂😂🤗

I did, you missed it, I tried redefining God.

Yes I did, unless it was that stuff about the universe expanding and contracting.

I know the weather has been a little changeable today, but that was a cracking ride. A little spot of lunch en famille, and time to light the fire and settle down in front of the rugby.

I wonder what other folks on STW have been up to today….

Oh. I see.

lol

is based on fairly large assumptions being correct, radio carbon dating is a good example of this,

carbon dating doesn’t actually work on an assumption.

I think it’s more like this Bigyan especially for the OP.

And yet you have faith in our contemporary illusion of money. If we didn’t have that, the bits of paper and numbers on a spreadsheet are valueless.

No they aren’t. Values are real – this is easily verifiable – hold a pair of balls in your hand, do you have two or one? If one, please explain why two equals one.

Values are real – this is easily verifiable

Tell that to the Venezuelans

hold a pair of balls in your hand

Sounds like catholic priest training to me

Scout Master Kevin?

No they aren’t. Values are real – this is easily verifiable – hold a pair of balls in your hand, do you have two or one? If one, please explain why two equals one.

They’re dough arghhhh plasticine balls and I’ve squeezed them together to make one.

yea, like people have Trust that man has walked on the moon when there is a ton of evidence that says he has not. its Still believed by many to be true though

Ok, I’ll bite. Show us the factual evidence that man has not, in fact, traveled to and landed and walked on the moon.
And no, YouTube video from some self-appointed expert will not be accepted as evidence.

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/how-to-see-all-six-apollo-moon-landing-sites/

Just in case we head off on the diversion……

It’s interesting to spot the #FakeNews tricks in plane sight though – the “What if Carbon Dating is wrong” then head off to say how that could easily mean evolution didn’t happen. So we sow some seeds of doubt that we can work with now – cause it’s just a theory, I mean you need to have some faith to believe all this stuff….

… according to the classical metaphysical traditions of both the East and West, God is the unconditioned cause of reality – of absolutely everything that is – from the beginning to the end of time. Understood in this way, one can’t even say that God “exists” in the sense that my car or Mount Everest or electrons exist. God is what grounds the existence of every contingent thing, making it possible, sustaining it through time, unifying it, giving it actuality. God is the condition of the possibility of anything existing at all.

Or in other words, God is a philosophical construct, created by humans.
If there is a “condition of the possibility of anything existing at all”, why do you have to call it God?

I had a very nice cycle today.

George michael

Second highest ranked search on Google after faith in a religious context being top prize on google

Ah the faith we hold that Google is correct

Or in other words, God is a philosophical construct, created by humans.

Maybe I should have been clearer unless you can prove that a God doesn’t exist then you are choosing to believe that they don’t exist.

Yeah, no. One cannot disprove a negative. If you’re asserting that something exists then the burden of proof lies with you.

To put that another way, unless you can prove that Santa Claus / the Tooth Fairy / invisible unicorns / Batman don’t exist then you are choosing to believe that they don’t exist.

You may say you know that God doesn’t exist but given how little we know about the universe you can’t categorically rule out the possibility of the existence of a God

You are correct that I cannot “categorically rule out the possibility of the existence of a God.” However it is so astonishingly unlikely and there is precisely zero evidence to suggest otherwise beyond a 1500 year old book and a lot of people really really wanting it to be true a lot that I am comfortable in being atheist rather than agnostic and saying that there is no god / gods beyond reasonable doubt. Totally happy to be proved wrong (and in fact I’d *love* to be proved wrong).

Dude, seriously? You’re taking the piss right? At least I hope you are.
Where’s the face palm emoji?

Y’all seem a bit frightened to think away from the doctrines and their interpretation and personification of God…

Sorry mate, I don’t follow any of that. I’ve obviously missed something somewhere. Could you elaborate please?

cougar – its not just one god and one old book. If the Christian God is real then what about Hindu ones etc?

like people have Trust that man has walked on the moon when there is a ton of evidence that says he has not.

There’s a ton of wildly debunked conspiracy theories, sure.

If you have any doubts whatsoever that man landed on the moon, I would ask you one question: in 1969 at the height of the Cold War, would the USSR have let the USA get away with faking it?

Case closed. Now, about that flat Earth…

its not just one god and one old book. If the Christian God is real then what about Hindu ones etc?

As Dire Straits once sang, “two men say they’re Jesus… one of them must be wrong.”

Ok, I’ll bite. Show us the factual evidence that man has not, in fact, traveled to and landed and walked on the moon.
And no, YouTube video from some self-appointed expert will not be accepted as evidence.
.
.
.
well, not Exactly self apointed experts BUT i think you might just know a few of em, Lol

Wow I am sold, I mean all that other stuff about being able to see the landing sites with actual telescopes etc. that must be rubbish cause a badly edited series of out of context clips has been used to persuade me. Praise Be the LORD!

What the hell was that?

What the hell was that?

Worth adding to the text book of fake news, this one takes the obviously simple route that Ninfan used to use of finding a quote or clip from people you respect and have them deliver your message, with the availability of decent cheap near pro level video editing it can look quite slick.

well, not Exactly self apointed experts BUT i think you might just know a few of em, Lol

Please, tell me you’re not serious.

It all goes back to the point I made earlier. Practice your religion if you want. I don’t care. But don’t try to make me and those I love follow your beliefs.

I am very angry and with good reason about this – again the point I made earlier about the theists interference in how others die. Its disgraceful, unforgivable and makes for a huge amount of suffering.

Let me tell you some stories. Unpleasant and upsetting – be warned.

An old lady I looked after many years ago. Losing her senses, control of her bladder and bowels and ability to walk. She wanted to die. Her life was over. She still had all her marbles but had no ability to take her own life. She was not depressed or otherwise incapacitated by mental illness She decided the only way she could end her miserable existence was to stop eating and starve herself to death. So she did. She would still accept fluids ( including whisky) but no food. It took her 6 weeks to die. She was not in pain so we could not give analgesia. She was not overtly distressed so we could not sedate her ( until the last few days) She remained lucid and coherent until the last couple of weeks. I have seen old women do this numerous times.

Or a family member. He had a number of physical ailments that made his life miserable and full of chronic pain but none of those were terminal. He was housebound and his wife had died a couple of years earlier. he still had all his mental facilities but he knew his life was over and he had had enough. One day he took an overdose fully intending to die. He lay unconscious for 24 hours ( attended to by his family and the gp). It became obvious he was not going to die there and then so was admitted to hospital where he recovered Like all suicides he was seen by a psychiatrist before discharge and the psychiatrist said ” this man has capacity, he is presently sane and has a rational desire to die” He was sent home without his strong painkillers to an existence that was even more miserable as a result. 6 months later his GP gave him a prescription for strong painkillers. 2 days later he took the lot. Again he failed to die and was admitted to hospital. He never really recovered from this, was unable to drink and slowly died of dehydration and malnutrition complicated by pressure sores. At one point he woke up a bit and set to another family member who was with him ” all wanted to do was go to sleep, why won’t they let me” It took him two weeks in hospital to die.

Or a man I looked after – a younger man. Slowly dying of kidney failure. It took weeks and weeks under my care for this man to die. Again he did not have any symptoms we could manage with sedatives or painkillers for many of those weeks. His death was inevitable, his suffering awful. Our ability to alleviate his suffering minimal

. Some consultants and gps will push the boundaries more than others but it is very much a lottery. We are allowed legally to give painkillers and sedatives to relieve symptoms and to be reckless (in its legal definition)i in doing this with regard to its effect on the length of life in terminal cases but we can only use these tools where there is a symptom we can define ie pain or distress. None of these 3 cases ( and many more I have experience of ) was there such a symptom but in all of these cases the suffering still existed and was prolonged.

A humane society would not allow this suffering. It should be a human right to have a dignified death at a time and place of your choosing. The main obstacle to a change in the law is religious groups and people and their influence on our political system. Make no mistake – its been well researched and the vast majority of objections to dignity in death ( an umbrella term for a range of laws, situations and actions) are religious based even tho these are often hidden behind other supposed reasons

Its vile that these people have this ability to use their faith to impose their beliefs upon others and to cause such suffering. I am very angry about this.

Further to my above rant – lets be very clear about this. I have NO desire to impose my strong views on others. I am very aware my views on this are polarised and strong. I will and have fought for people whose known wishes are to fight every step of the way to have what I consider to be futile treatment. I recently had to advise someone who is close to me who has been put in the position of making end of life decisions for someone who is currently unable to take these decisions themselves. I asked ” what is their wish? would they want to fight on or would they say enough is enough”. The answer was ” they would always want to fight on” My reply was that as that is their known view then your duty is to make sure that wish is respected.

Thats the difference. I respect other wishes even when its against my philosophy. Some religious folk do not and their influence causes intolerable amounts of suffering by attempting or succeeding in imposing their views on others

Totally understand why people object to and want to change the presence of religion in education, justice, government etc… I’m not keen on it myself and would gladly vote to remove it.

Let’s be honest though – many have already made what I would see as the main point. So much of this is covered by the majority of people with a belief or no belief being largely reasonable. Why on Earth are we letting a minority of dickheads divide us..?

So much heat and bluster and for what end? As long as people don’t inflict their view on others – who cares and what business is it of anyone else. By all means kick it out of our institutions, I’d sign up for that – as I suspect would many, but let’s be reasonable to each other.

I am very angry and with good reason about this – again the point I made earlier about the theists interference in how others die. Its disgraceful, unforgivable and makes for a huge amount of suffering.

Actually, I think theists have next to nothing to do with this TJ. The widespread support in the UK for pro-choice in abortion makes it fairly unlikely.

As for being angry about the failure of enabling dignity in death – we haven’t got enough anger about giving people dignity in life. We’re all part of a ****-up society that gives dignity to people only if they have money. Maybe we could start doing more about that…?

Its well proven that the theists are the major obstacle to dignity in death. Much research done on it. Medical consultants split almost entirely along lines of religious or not for example.

I am angry about it because of what I have seen professionally and amongst my family and friends.

Its well proven that the theists are the major obstacle to dignity in death. Much research done on it. Medical consultants split almost entirely along lines of religious or not for example.

I am angry about it because of what I have seen professionally and amongst my family and friends.

I’d be glad to see the research. I meet a lot of clinical people – largely through my wife and religious or not most seem pro-dignity in death. That’s across nurses, medics and allied professions.

Having watched people I love die in pain and suffering – you have my empathy.

Its a role I have chosen and when it goes well I get a lot out of it personally – its not altuistic

The worst thing about religion in general is the shit music. Hymns, that Buddhist warbling, Christian rock etc. Gospel is just the exception that proves the rule.

Tell that to the Venezuelans

The Venezuelans had Schroedingers balls, that were both being paraded and not being paraded on instagram by corrupt politicians who had embezzled balls that both did not and did exist.

Its a role I have chosen and when it goes well I get a lot out of it personally – its not altuistic

If I read this correctly – i.e you don’t continue your career in nursing with a degree of altruism, I think in the nicest possible way that is at least partly bullshit. One of the things about you that comes across clearly to me is that you are a decent and compassionate man. I don’t doubt you get a strong sense of job satisfaction – but I would be very confident that you have a drive to do good for your fellow humans – simply because it is right, not just because it is rewarding.

Your not making christianity any better, your just making roll and roll worse.
King of the Hill.

I know guys on crack make more sense that you.
Dr Evil