Wolf Tooth Components. XX1 type chainring

Another happy Works Components user here…. I questioned about potential customs fees before and was told not to worry. £16 makes it over £55 for a wolf tooth doesnt it?!

Worth it if you need 30t right away but i will go rf or works next time i need one. Works say they will have colours soon too but seem to be behind so i wont hold my breath……

Thanks yeti man. I’ll look out for the dispatch confirmation. What’s the view on the chain with these things? My bike is 4 months old so the chain is newish. Do I need to fit a new chain? I’m sure I’ve read somewhere you should fit with a new chain, but can’t remember if it was with a Wolftooth ring or one of the others? Cheers.

Lost the chain three times with my new Absolute Black. Giving it the benefit of the doubt and trying a different chain, before I succumb to the inevitable and buy a Wolf

I was waiting for a Works Components 30t ring, but it looks like they won’t be available now until mid-late July, and with my 10 speed stuff arriving soon I decided just to go with a Wolf Tooth one. I’m going to run it without a guide to begin with and see how I get on as the whole drive train will be new, but it will be interesting to see how everything performs as it wears.

Lost the chain three times with my new Absolute Black. Giving it the benefit of the doubt and trying a different chain, before I succumb to the inevitable and buy a Wolf

He was offering a refund on pinkbike to a potential customer if the ring didn’t keep the chain on, may be worth a moan if it doesn’t do what it should – though I know you can’t guarantee it will stay on. You using a clutch mech btw as that is pretty crucial.

On contrast, the works components, wolf tooth and SRAM thick thin ones all seem to work, mine does.

Riding with Scottish Badger earlier who has the Works one, worked faultlessly. Bumped into another friend who said the Absolute Black one just doesn’t work. Shame. To be honest the profiling on the AB one seemed pretty minimal, it had tall teeth, but the Works one has more dramatic tooth profiles.

I’ve got a RaceFace 32t on order, being a tart I think it looks nicer than the Works one and it only cost a couple of quid more. Hopefully it’ll work as well!

Yes, running a clutch rear mech. Have to pop over to pink bike

Riding with Scottish Badger earlier who has the Works one, worked faultlessly. Bumped into another friend who said the Absolute Black one just doesn’t work. Shame. To be honest the profiling on the AB one seemed pretty minimal, it had tall teeth, but the Works one has more dramatic tooth profiles.

Guys, please compare apples to apples. My spiderless design is not XX1 style design like Works chainring.
I have Shimano 104BCD XX1 style chainrings which have thick-thin profile to keep chain without a guide on my website.

Sram spiderless chainrings do have better shape of the tooths to increase the chain retention compared to regular rings but i don’t write i guarantee it running in rough terrain without chainkeeper. Only XC and marathon riders can ride it without a guide really with clutch mech. More aggressive riders should use it like with a Bling Ring, so at least a top guide and then all is great.
The misunderstanding came i think from the fact that everyone wants to ride now without a chainkeeper and there is huge pressure on that. This can only be guaranteed with thick-thin profiles, like on my shimano rings.
hope that helps.

OK, so you are are offering a revolutionary chain ring that manages, amazing as it may sound, to offer chain retention when used in conjunction with a chain guide?

I’m getting more impressed with the Works one, posted another thread about it the other day but I’m now running no guide (which I didn’t expect to work). On a whim took my Ragley hardtail down the fort william world cup route, chain didn’t fall off even when I did 😉 Now I won’t claim it was a rollercoaster ride, I had to take it very slowly in places but it’s a rougher ride than most folks’ everyday.

Northwind – what sort of terrain is that then? do you think it would hold up ok in the peak district with just the chain ring and clutch mech?

my hope chainring is going to be dead soon and ill probably replace it with one of the narrow/wide raceface rings from wiggle, and im seriously tempted to try and ditch the e13 top guide mount i have, not that it causes me any issues really, but just because if i can then i may as well not use it

do those chainrings really make that much difference? i have read this thread but most of the people who run it without a top guide seem to not ride areas where its getting bashed about alot, like the peak district?

I’m quite excited for getting me Works one. Ordered yesterday.

Rocks and rocks, Oscillatewildly 😉 With a dash of drops and jumps, and more rocks. I’ve never ridden in the peaks though so can’t compare.

ohhh wait there the works one is £35! may just try that one instead of the RF one then

EDIT – NW, well that looks kinda similar to a lot of the descents in the peak, just more loose rocks rather than a run like that, but that does still look like it would give the chain a jumping session to be fair, especially at normal descending speed

sounds promising!

has the works one literally got the same profiling as the XX1?? is it just basically a copy of it or is the XX1 one better in some way?

Guys, please compare apples to apples. My spiderless design is not XX1 style design like Works chainring.
I have Shimano 104BCD XX1 style chainrings which have thick-thin profile to keep chain without a guide on my website.

Sram spiderless chainrings do have better shape of the tooths to increase the chain retention compared to regular rings but i don’t write i guarantee it running in rough terrain without chainkeeper. Only XC and marathon riders can ride it without a guide really with clutch mech. More aggressive riders should use it like with a Bling Ring, so at least a top guide and then all is great.
The misunderstanding came i think from the fact that everyone wants to ride now without a chainkeeper and there is huge pressure on that. This can only be guaranteed with thick-thin profiles, like on my shimano rings.
hope that helps.

That’s a slightly different response to the email I sent raising concerns on this point.

Oscillate Wildly – Member

has the works one literally got the same profiling as the XX1?? is it just basically a copy of it or is the XX1 one better in some way?

No idea tbh, it’s better inasmuch as it fits my cranks and only costs £35 😉

I just read Tehan’s post again, if I understand it right he’s not saying that all his chainrings are so limited- the SRAM Spiderless one is a different design to the Shimano XX1, the Shimano should be OK with no chain device whereas the Spiderless won’t.

So, people commenting on bad performance- which do you have?

Sram spiderless chainrings do have better shape of the tooths to increase the chain retention compared to regular rings but i don’t write i guarantee it running in rough terrain without chainkeeper. Only XC and marathon riders can ride it without a guide really with clutch mech. More aggressive riders should use it like with a Bling Ring, so at least a top guide and then all is great.
The misunderstanding came i think from the fact that everyone wants to ride now without a chainkeeper and there is huge pressure on that. This can only be guaranteed with thick-thin profiles, like on my shimano rings.
hope that helps.

So the SRAM spiderless one isn’t an XX1 style ring? That’s not what my friend thought, perhaps that needs to be clearer. He’s very much an XC rider, and was using a clutch mech, but finding the chain coming off. If it’s not actually an XX1 style ring then fair enough, but having spoken to you he was expecting to be able to use it without a guide. Perhaps a miscommunication.

Northwind – Member
No idea tbh, it’s better inasmuch as it fits my cranks and only costs £35 😉

Likewise. Got one on the hard tail that was dropping like crazy on its 1×10 even with a clutch mech. Now, not a hint of drop. No guide. If an insanely priced XX1 is better, well fine, but I can’t see it myself. It’s lightweight perhaps, at least in making the wallet lighter.

So impressed I may get one on the full sus though for more gnarly rocky downhilly stuff I’d be interested to see how it copes vs the full e.13 guide I’ve got. I like having the guide on there for security. The whole drivetrain is solid.

From Absolute Black’s website, for the Spiderless ring:

“For light riding chainkeeper may not be needed. For more aggressive riding chainkeeper will be needed.”

Seems reasonably clear tbh when you look into it.

Yes and no, I think that’s a bit misleading. However having the two separate products as “XX1 style Shimano” and “SRAM Spiderless” is reasonably clear, so it sounds like my friend was under false pretenses, but he’d spoken to Tehan about it and still thought that.

I’d be inclined to remove that reference to not needing a chain keeper, as there’s nothing special about that chain ring at all with regards to chain retention.

Interesting I would have the Absolute Black Shimano one on my bike now if R2 bike had sent me the correct one.l did think about keeping the Sram spiderless one sent in error as have some SRam cranks also but glad i did not from the comments appearing.

Njee what ring did your friend have ?

Njee what ring did your friend have ?

He had the Absolute Black SRAM spiderless one, but was under the impression it was supposed to be an XX1-esque one, and was disgruntled that chain retention was poor. Sure it’s a decent ring, but definitely needs a guide.

I believe the spiderless ring has a particular tooth profile to aid retention. Not thick/thin ala SRAM, but the shape and height help limit chain shippping.

I’ve bought the ring on the same premis and emailed querying the ring I received. I had a reply saying “The ring has a special tooth profile to hold chain on rough terrain. There is a lot to tell but to make it short it’s not really necessary to have thin-thick profile to keep things on place”.

To me, that suggests a certain level of chain retention. If i’d wanted a normal chain ring I would have spent far less on one from another brand.

I dont class the Swinley Blue or Red as particularly aggressive and my spiderless has been losing it on these. Come on Works get the spiderless sorted

Well, had my works one about a month.
Haven’t dropped the chain once.

To me, that suggests a certain level of chain retention. If i’d wanted a normal chain ring I would have spent far less on one from another brand.

That seems to be where the ambiguity lies – he also thought that, but had dropped the chain multiple times riding the Surrey Hills.

It seems to me they’re contradicting themselves:

– “SRAM spiderless ring, you don’t need fancy tooth profiles for chain retention, this will suffice”

– “SRAM XX1 style ring, fancy tooth profiles improves chain retention”

It seems to be that the SRAM spiderless ones do not work without a guide, and retention is no better than a cheaper ring, but the XX1 style ones may well be excellent. The marketing on these isn’t all that clear – Tehan, perhaps worth addressing. I’d be making it clear that with the spiderless one you do need a guide.

I agree with comments above. Until I just came back here to read updates on this thread, I was under the impression – and have been telling people I know – that the XX1 style Absolute Black ones that have just come to market are both in spiderless and 104BCD. I thought they were simply different fitments for the same new XX1 style chainring product.

Tehan, you need to make this clear. It seems as though it just so happens that you have brought out a spiderless at the same time as the 104BCD XX1 style rings which does NOT offer the same XX1 style chain retention, and you are concerned that sales will suffer because of this so are dressing the spiderless ones up a bit pushing the boundaries with your promises of what it can deliver. I think customers would prefer you to be open an honest. People will still buy the spiderless so long as they understand what they are getting and are convinced they are getting a good deal. The spiderless rings are still great rings by the looks of it, but you need to make it clear what the customer is getting.

Also in some of your responses you do not come across professionally in that you are making out that there is some sort of magic going on, or additional technology or method in your R&D and design of which you will not speak about. Again, this if anything puts customers off because it sounds like you are trying too hard to protect your design. I would prefer honesty again and an admission that frankly, they are all much of a muchness and are based on the same idea of XX1 with wide/narrow tooth profiling to aid chain retention. I’m sorry but it’s nothing more than that. SRAM brought something to market and caught everyone with their pants down because it was a good idea, and everyone wanted it. SRAM being stubborn have missed the boat because they pitched it way up at premium level and are happy to let it trickle down gradually. Companies such as yours copied the idea plain and simply, and it just works…very well.

It’s really a battle of price and availability now. Some customers will be swayed by certain designs and/or how a company acts online and communicates with its customers too.
For me, I have ordered a Works Components one, but that is mainly because it is the cheapest and I am in the UK and it is available now. The comms from Works is absolutely appaling though. I have emailed 3 times with no response and also commented on their facebook page, again with no response. To be fair, he sounds very busy so I am giving him/them, the benefit of doubt and the facebook feed gives updates about the batches they are doing. I think they have huge demand for these chainrings in the UK.

uff, quite a lot to read.

So.
I have 2 types of chainrings.
SRAM Spiderless – they have tall, wide tooths (same as on my xx1 style shimano) but without thick-thin addition(never claimed it was true XX1). In some cases (XC, marathons etc) they do keep the chain without chain keeper. I would never write that without a backup. I do have people riding in Germany, Poland,Australia and some in US using that chainring in XC and racing marathons without a guide. Usually 32T and 34T as they offer more chainwrap. So it is possible to ride without chainguide on it.
Now, UK is a bit rougher in terrain and i do also have few guys where this chainring does not work without a guide, honest and short story. That is why i wrote on the website that for light terrain it will be ok and for more aggresive riding chainkeeper will be necessary. It is really very individual thing and a matter of where you ride.
My tester Marek Konwa (Silver WC medalist) is using 34T spiderless with his XX1 groupset without a chainkeepr and it works for him great… i have even posted a video here few pages back.
In addition – my spiderless design is the lightest and Cheapest! so there is no way you can get spiderless ring for less, even when someone say it does not work without chainguide for him. Such design offer a lot of benefits on its own and you just cant find a cheaper way to drop 150g off of you drivetrain for sram crank.

Misunderstandig came form the fact that some folks assume a lot and do not read all info when purchasing.

My other product is XX1 style Shimano ring. this product has not been yet delivered to anyone yet – so no one comment on that one as it is impossible:)I will ship first backorders by 8th July
This ring is really similar to original XX1. That means thick-thin tooths, mud seeping etc. So it will not need chainguide and that is clearly written on the web as well. I have it tested for months with enduro guys and it simply works. On over 6 months usage i was informed about 2 drops. Both were in terrible mud.

So what people comment on is sram spiderless, and yes for some people it will not work without a guide. BUT when you put a guide on, you are still lighter on such setup because you just saved yourself 150g on spider and your old chainring & bolts. So to be fair one gain lighter, sleeker, more durable (better alloy and wider tooths) chainring than with his previous setup for the price i would consider really fair compared to what you get.
Once you have this ring in your hand you will understand what i am talking about:).

So for people who don’t bother to read all:
Sram spiderless- you will most likely need to use a guide in UK. But i do have some people using it with success without a guide on flatter terrain.
XX1 style Shimano – you will not need to use a guide (same like Works or original XX1).

if you have any more questions just let me know.
Marcin

Marcin
You did not put any of that stuff in my original question in this thread about why it was not thick thin. You just said that it was not needed and you only added it to the shimano ring owing to people pressure. It has 1 ride on it and it didn’t come off but i live in the lakes so it is not flat and i didn’t want to have to run a guide, hence why i bought one of your rings in the first place. Reading what you have just put makes me think that if you haven’t lied, then you have stretched the truth a long way.

Pridds – write me an email and i will sort you out if you are not satisfied. I get so many emails these days and a lot of people writes that it works some that it doesn’t in their terrain so i must have been in the good mood that day as there was another happy customer:) With these sram spiderless rings it is hard to say for whom it will not work so i guess i will move to alternating design soon, but will have to push the prices up a bit.

Btw, if it worked for you without a guide then great. Let me know when you do some more miles as well.

I am sorry if you felt cheated. Send me an email.

On the side note,
To be absolutely honest. You cannot imagine what customers do with their bikes sometimes. I am not saying anything bad, so please don’t jump on me. But it’s really hard to control how you use the product as well. For eg i had already few customers who mounted that spiderless ring other way round! I thought it is not possible at all until i have actually tried myself. From such setup i got emails from customers that chain is skipping(tooths are directional so if mounted other way round..), chainline is bad etc… then it goes to the forums. I got customers with really wired spacers setup on bb, so chainring was not performing ideal. I get customers with far too long chain and so on.
So at least 15% of users does something to their bike i don’t have control over.
That does not help to any brand and i have worked for few and have seen same thing.

So guys, if you feel that a product A or B works wrong in your opinion then always contact salesman first. In my case i am ALWAYS willing to help and try to find best possible solution for that individual issue. Sometimes it’s just a minor adjustment and it changes whole situation.

sorry for long post again…
Marcin

There was no email, all the conversation was on this thread. Look back through it.I said i wanted to cancel the order if they were not thick/thin, you reasssured me that it didn’t matter and the profile was more important, none of the stuff mentioned above was said which is what severely pisses me off as if you had said it i would have got a wolf tooth one months ago and not dicked about with one that probably wont work if it a bit rocky. You also did not mention that there was any significant difference in performance between the spiderless ones and the shimano ones but apparently there is.

damn, i received my absolute black sram spiderless chainring early this week but haven’t actually fitted it yet, not sure what to do now! my xo crank has the 104 spider so maybe i should have got the other style 🙄

chris-noble-mtb.blogspot.com

From a Pinkbike post by Tehan announcing the spiderless rings

“The ultimate solution for Sram cranks that feature a removable spider. Spiderless chainrings allow for flawless single speed or Sram 1×9/10/11 drivetrain setup.
…
Chainring tooths optimized for great chain retention while riding in rough terrain!. In almost all cases chainkeeper is not necessary. Tooth profile is directional, that means it will keep your chain on, even when back pedaling on descent.”

Don’t think I misread anything, I think claims were made that reality has proven inaccurate

You are digging a bit of a hole here Marcin, you’ve posted on here, on Pinkbike and your thread here that the spiderless SRAM ring works without a guide “in almost all cases”, now you’re saying that for anything other than smooth riding you will need one. I think it’s safe to say that the thick/thin rings do work far better, and you’re not just doing it for ‘people pressure’.

Just received my Wolftooth SRAM spiderless xx1 style chainring in the post. Very nice piece of kit and very light. Looking forward to getting it on and testing it out.

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Wolftooth spiderless 1[/url] by wobbliscott[/url], on Flickr

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Wolftooth spiderless 2[/url] by wobbliscott[/url], on Flickr

Just contemplating whether or not I should install with a new chain or not. My current chain is only a couple of months old so should be in good nick, but not sure if a new chain would be better to ensure proper and symmetrical bedding in??

Got the Wolftooth piece over the Works one as it has the holes for the bash ring installation. The Works one doesn’t seem to.

Very nice. My 30t 104BCD Wolf Tooth ring has arrived, but it’s currently sitting at the post office waiting for me to pay ‘the fees’. I’ll pick it up tomorrow, and with a bit of luck I’ll have the 1×10 kit on the bike for the weekend, minus a chain guide ?

My current chain is only a couple of months old so should be in good nick, but not sure if a new chain would be better to ensure proper and symmetrical bedding in??

You could put a new chain on now and then swap back and forth once the new one has two months wear.