Which is better – a Hope Hoop wheel or a Border Collie ?

v8 ninty – its really simple even if you don’t want to accept it. if the dog makes an error of judgement it is not under control. A dog that is under control has no effect on anyone else – as soon as it knock someone off that shows it is not under control

You duty is to keep your dog under control so it does not inconvenience or affect anyone else. If your dog knocks someone off a bike then the dog was not under control – you have strict liability for any damage the dog causes.

Dogs can be perfectly under control of their owner, yet still make errors of judgment themselves

😆

Must be raining today, nobody out riding ffs

It’s very foggy here Iain, but that won’t stop me going to the pub for Sunday Lunch. 😀

Must be raining today, nobody out riding ffs

it’s smartphones, init?

that’s why TJ rides a tandem, so he can type without having to stop…

me – I am too scared to go out now in case there are any more dogs around – I have only got a few more sets of wheels and I am trying to protect them.

[actually decorating 🙁 ]

This thread started nicely with the OP telling us about something unusual that had happened to him in an amusing way, and being laid back and sensible about it.

Shame it had to turn into an argument eh?

🙄

It’s not an argument, it’s a discussion. 🙂

And an interesting one at that, imo.

Or should we all just post really bland comments with little or no actual onions in them, agree politely with each other and ultimately never really understand anyone else’s point of view?

TJ you keep saying ‘dog knocks someone off’ try ‘cyclist and dog collide’ or even ‘cyclist hits dog’ and see how daft your argument seems then.

(dogs can) make errors of judgment themselves

Elf, it’s true, and often highly amusing. My folks dog ran full pelt into bright orange temporary fencing the other day because he was to busy watching his mucker. Was very 😆 because he didn’t hurt himself. Only a fool or a TJ would have said it was the owners fault though. Although any damage caused in such a situation would obviously be the dog owners responsibility. The difference is that’s fence can’t be expected to watch out for a dog, but a cyclist can.

V8 – its all the same – the dog owner has a duty to keep the dog under control – this means keeping it out of the way of the cyclist. If the owner does not keep the dog out of the way and causes damage then they are liable as they failed to keep the dog under control

Have a look at the law – you might learn something. animals act 1971

LOLs at the poster. You’d be surprised what a small guy like me can do when I’m angry. People acting dangerously around me makes me angry. Like cyclists that think they own the place and everyone should get out of their way. Blasting down trails has its place and it’s great fun but if you can’t see it’s clear or there are people around then you slow down or you are not being responsible. It’s not a hard one to work out is it. I agree with TJ that an owner is responsible for any damage the dog causes. Being run over by a cyclist going tooo fast is not a collision caused by the dog now is it? A dog doesn’t need to be within an inch of its master to be under control.
If you are out on shared use land and don’t slow down to a crawl to pass people, animals and horse riders then you are not acting responsibly. I’m a walker, a dog walker and a mountain biker so I see it a bit more objectively than some of the rabid terriers on here who are really more deserving of a leash and muzzle than any dog.

how do you take someone elses line & quote it on your reply? 🙂

V8, I’d save your energy. I’d bet that most normal people would agree with you and you’re never going I persuade the usual fools that their world view is self-centred and bizarre. A shame there isn’t an ignore function…

Why do dog owners seem so reluctant to control their animals and to accept the liability they have for failing to control the animal.

Only a fool would think that the dog can be under control and still knock someone off their bike.

If the dog inconveniences anyone in any way it is not under control. Any damage done by a dog not under control the owner is liable.

dogs and humans are not equal under the law – the dog has no rights at all.

I’d bet that most normal people would agree with you and you’re never going I persuade the usual fools that their world view is self-centred and bizarre.

Dear oh dear oh dear…

Ok, here goes:

You own a car. You park it on a hill. You inadvertently leave the handbrake off. The car then rolls down the hill, smashing into a 400-year old stone cottage, causing irreparable damage.

Who is at fault? The car or the owner?

dogs and humans are not equal under the law – the dog has no rights at all.

Other than being protected against mistreatment and cruelty, this is absolutely correct. The dog has no more ‘rights’ than a car.

Anyway, this issue’s bin dealt with more than adequately by myself and TJ; if you really want to know any more, then read up on the Law, consider the issue of Individual Legal Responsibility, and have a good think about it.

Then, accept that regarding the issue of legal responsibilities of dog ownership, TJ and I are right. And move on.

Dogs are nice. I like dogs. I want to see dogs out on the trails, having fun. I also want to see mountain bikers out on the trails having fun. And other people.

I do want to see people having sufficient knowledge of the Laws surrounding their activities, in order to be able to act responsibly.

If we all do that, we can all get along fine.

I’m not a dog owner, nor do I play one on TV. Nor do I wish to have a reasoned debate with two people to whom the words reasonable and debate are utter anathema in their blinkered worlds.

Being run over by a cyclist going tooo fast is not a collision caused by the dog now is it?

in this instance the dog came into me from the side – if I had hit the dog my wheel would have survived as it wouldn’t have had the side hit that caused it to fold.

but he didn’t mean it – he had a slightly startled/unsettled look on his face. Not too shaken though as I went up to him to give him a petting and he didn’t shy away.

If he had meant to take me out it would have been safer to jump up at me, not pile into my front wheel.

Give the OP a medal. Too many grumpy people about happy to wade into those whose attitude and outlook doesn’t suit them. Hoaven’t you lot ever damaged something and got away with it?

lmao smell_it!

I have yet to see a law which states or infers that a mountain biker has the right to plough into a dog without giving the animal or owner warning of his presence. Rabbit on all you like but if you are going too fast to allow an owner to bring their dog under control when alerted to your presence then you are in the wrong. On land set aside for specific activities this wouldn’t hold water but this wasn’t the case this time.
I lost a dog when he leapt a fence to fetch a ball that bounced too far. Hit a car, took the front valance off and died there in my arms. I paid the owner for the damage to the car. It was my fault. If a car comes on to our park and starts ripping it up and doing donuts,as I’ve seen before, and hits one of the dogs desperately being called to heel by their owners, who is at fault? I can see why England will never have an access code. Ever thought of going home TJ? You’d fit in better down there.

I can see TelfJ’s POV here but in the real world I’d be surprised if their interpretation would stand up in court. When I’m out on my bike I’ve had the odd near miss with a dog when on a tight & twisty trail, miles away from houses or carparks. I remember once, on a tight corner that was overgrown vegetation restricting visibility nearly having a bike/dog interface (riding at a snails pace at the time). If that near miss with the dog had been a collision it wouldn’t be the dog owners fault in my opinion. Commonsense would prevail and I’d put it down to experience.

TandemJeremy – Member

Have a look at the law – you might learn something. animals act 1971

Is there a case of a collision between a mountain biker and hound resulting in a successful conviction in a court of law for the mountain biker against the dog owner?

I applaud the OP’s commonsense regarding the way he handled the situation.

TJ – Next time you’re out my way I’ll see if Roli wants to come out. He takes some interesting lines but he’s fast as ****. I reckon he’d even beat GW down the ‘kinchie trail. He might change your outlook on dogs. But maybe not if he tries to chew yer tyres.

http://yodagoat.blogspot.com/2011/11/dugs-life.html
Mike

Yodagoat – I have no issue with well trained dogs and responsible owners. I have ridden with dogs before

Rabbit on all you like but if you are going too fast to allow an owner to bring their dog under control when alerted to your presence then you are in the wrong

Of course. – apart from the dog owner has a responsibility to have the dog under control at all times.

Anyway, this issue’s bin dealt with more than adequately by myself and TJ

That’s not what you said last night, big boy… 😉

Yeah, ultimately, that seems like a reasonable conclusion tbh.

Seems that you won’t still respect me in the morning… 😳

Of course the dog is property, so is the cyclists front wheel. The cyclist has a duty to keep that under control too, of course, if a front wheel hits a dog, it’s obviously not under control, is it?

TJ; you have email.

Is there a case of a collision between a mountain biker and hound resulting in a successful conviction in a court of law for the mountain biker against the dog owner?

7. A 65 year old man was awarded compensation after a dog ran under the wheel of his bike. He was cycling through a park when a dog that was not on its lead run in front of his bike, throwing him over the handlebars. The cyclist sustained a fractured pelvis and was unable to walk unaided for three months and could not return to work for a further six months. The owner of the dog was liable for the dog’s actions as it should have been on a lead and was sued for bike accident compensation. The man was awarded £14,000 for his injuries..

http://www.cycleclaims.co.uk/information/bicycle-accident-compensation-claims-studies

cool! I’m off to find a dog off it’s lead to run over 8)

Thanks for the quote and link.

I notice that the link is from Ambulancechasers4u and is a bit vague but never mind.

The quote you have supplied doesn’t give a lot of information (it doesn’t say if the case was settled in court) but does say the incident was in a park and that is not a mountainbiker out in the countryside. I would still be interested in a court case that involved a mountainbiker and hound out in the countryside and not someone having a ride through a park. The quote also states that the dog should have been on a lead, is that a law of that actual park? It doesn’t state that the dog was out of control at the time of the incident.

I LOL’d at the link. It’s a bit pathetic and desperate to be honest.

Why? It clearly shows the point. Plenty more cases out there if you look and more details on that one.

You will not be persuaded tho that as a dog owner you are liable for any and all damage your dog causes if you fail to control it even tho the law is quite clear

So what about this incident, out walking the two hounds (which are particularly large one of them is about 35″ at the shoulder) around Rothiemurcas, hear a MTB’r coming down trail so step to the side into long grass with the two hounds which are not on leads, biker comes round the bend sees the hounds gets startled veers of the trail and down he goes, he gets up has a bit of a rant whilst I am holding back the laughter, realises he is being a bit of a nob and starts laughing and apoligises for being a nob, and says fookin ell check the size of them! Could of gone quite different if it was someone else that did not not have a sense of humor.
So should I have been out of sight as to not cause MTB’s any distraction 😀
Not really got any relevance to the point of this thread though.

I conceded the point about if the dog causes a accident, you fail to see the point I made about if excess speed causes an accident and rigidly stick to ‘it’s the dogs fault
How would you define under control? If it takes five seconds to call the dog and put it on a lead, is that not under control, if I see a cyclist and call my dog but he cyclist is going to fast to stop, is that the dogs fault?
You just saying ‘typical dog owners reaction’ shows how little respect you have for any opinion apart from your own,
EDIT Omg 😯 what am I doing…. Arguing on the Internet, with TJ…..God I want a cig!.. 😥

I think the OP handled this correctly.

devs – Member
…That is the “responsible” way to share the land. If you can’t stop in the distance you can see then you are going too fast.

That’s my thinking. If I’m riding in the country then I have to expect random animals and should be riding appropriately. Just missed a large deer that sprung out of the undergrowth the other day. Blamed myself because I obviously was riding in tunnel vision mode.

TandemJeremy – Member
…The very fact your dog knocks someone off shows the dog is not under control and you have a legal responsibility to keep the dog under control…

Reasonable attitude for crowded urban parks, but you’d have to be a right miserable type not to enjoy seeing a dog out enjoying itself in the country. Albeit some dogs are as irresponsible and selfish as speeding cyclists and expect others to get out of their way.

I do want to see people having sufficient knowledge of the Laws surrounding their activities, in order to be able to act responsibly.

Surley that would greatly reduse the quantity and quality of the trails available to us all( excluding the Scotts)!

Can’t be bothered to read all the tripe that came after the OP’s nicely worded, jovial description of the event – but if my dog get’s hit by a cyclist, unless I’ve had a chance to tell the dog to get out of the way and she hasn’t, there’s no way that would be my, or the dog’s fault.
That’s like saying it’s my fault if I’m walking on a bridleway, step out in front of a cyclist that I haven’t seen and he hits me.
Utter bollocks.
And I know I’m right, so won’t be back to argue about it.

Whilst out on the bike earlier this happened….. bloody dogs

😆

It’s not wearing a helmet either…….

That’s like saying it’s my fault if I’m walking on a bridleway, step out in front of a cyclist that I haven’t seen and he hits me.

😯

I notice that the link is from Ambulancechasers4u

Really? From what I can see they’re a perfectly legitimate legal firm working to gain compensation from cyclists who’ve sustained losses through no fault of their own. Or do you think such companies shouldn’t exist, and when cyclists are injured or have their bikes damaged they should just shrug and accept sh*t happens? 🙄

Or did you actually think that’s what they are because they have a case report which shows that the law contradicts your opinion?

It’s I’m a bit pathetic and desperate to be honest.

FTFY, devs

And I know I’m right, so won’t be back to argue about it.

Ah, the good old Tower Hamlets assertion – bye then.