Home Forums Chat Forum When does it contain horse, when its MORE THAN 1%…

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  • When does it contain horse, when its MORE THAN 1%…
  • zilog6128
    Full Member

    With a Horse as High as yours, you could make a lot of lasagne for the dim witted peasants to put in their troughs

    Ad hominem. You have lost the argument. Thanks for playing, better luck next time. 🙄

    br
    Free Member

    The point is no-one has had their health harmed by this “scandal” and no-one is affected except the bottom-of-the-barrel meat industry. It really is a non-issue blown out of all proportion. How many people here have been affected by it at all?

    What, and you don’t think this issue of fraudulent labeling could affect the Waitrose/Organic/etc (basically anything) stuff you buy?

    Grow up.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Do I care that cheap crap I wouldn’t eat without being paid a million quid turns out to have something “wrong” with it? No. If you’re shovelling this turd slop into your undifferentiating gobhole, you deserve all you get from it.

    lol, you have put it better than I could I think 😆

    What, and you don’t think this issue of fraudulent labeling could affect the Waitrose/Organic/etc (basically anything) stuff you buy?

    When Waitrose or my local butcher starts selling horse labelled up as sirloin steak or top rump please let me know about it. 🙄

    Grow up.

    good argument, thanks. The debate squad A-team is out in force today.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    When Waitrose or my local butcher starts selling horse labelled up as sirloin steak or top rump please let me know about it.

    So you would like to be told if what you are buying is misrepresented ?

    But you don’t think that people with less money than you should be able to expect the same ?

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    Just because you’ve got “less money” doesn’t mean mean you have to live on slops. You DO need a sense of taste and a brain, though…

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    So you would like to be if what you are buying is misrepresented ?

    no. You missed the eye-roll smiley. I would not need to be informed because it isn’t going to happen. Nor would it happen in ASDA, tesco, lidl, etc, as long as people (any people, regardless of their status) buy REAL WHOLE FOOD rather than processed rubbish.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    no. You missed the eye-roll smiley. I would not need to be informed because it isn’t going to happen

    So would you like to be informed if it was happening ?

    If your meat from the butchers had some bovine drugs in it that may cause cancer
    Or the veg from the farmers market that was sold as Organic was covered in pesticides ?

    Would you like to know or not ?

    What people buy is up to them. Not you.

    But you are saying that its OK for them to be lied to, because they don’t eat as well as you, or use as many raw ingredients. 😐

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    That is a nonsense argument. There is no correlation between the food chains of whole uk meat & veg and the multi-source, multi-country nightmare of bottom-barrel processed foods.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    that is a nonsense argument

    It wasnt an argument, it was a question.

    I’ll ask it again.

    So would you like to be informed if it was happening ?

    If your meat from the butchers had some bovine drugs in it that may cause cancer
    Or the veg from the farmers market that was sold as Organic was covered in pesticides ?

    So.

    Would you want to know ?

    Of would you you be happy for the suppliers YOU buy your food from, to Lie to you ?

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    If that happens I will asses that case according to it’s merits. In this case – the one we are actually discussing – the problem is entirely the fault of the consumers who have been demanding & buying super-low quality foodstuffs with incredibly convoluted, difficult to police supply chains. We have already established these people do not care what’s in their food otherwise they wouldn’t buy it.

    chvck
    Free Member

    We have already established these people do not care what’s in their food otherwise they wouldn’t buy it.

    You’ve said that yes, not sure that counts as “we have already established” though.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    These products are unhealthy. The people buying them either don’t care about this or do not care enough about what they’re eating to find out if it is healthy or not. Either way they do not care.

    DezB
    Free Member

    Being a gay man who wishes to marry my partner and have Findus Lesagne for the wedding banquet, I’m finding a hell of a lot to concern me in the current news.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    the problem is entirely the fault of the consumers

    Brilliant.

    The consumers get lied to by the suppliers.

    But it’s the consumers fault.

    You couldn’t make it up.

    (Oh wait, you just did)

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    The point is no-one has had their health harmed by this “scandal” and no-one is affected except the bottom-of-the-barrel meat industry. It really is a non-issue blown out of all proportion.

    Thats quite a difficult thing to be sure of – its not been apparent to the wider population that horsemeat has been consumed in any significant quantity. Legitimate horsemeat is quite safe to eat, but its not clear what the source of this meat is – given there is a sizable criminal, fraudulent operation going on you can’t say that knackered old pets and horses that fell at beaches brook aren’t entering the production line.

    Given the apparent scale of the fraud – in terms of the number of places the meat is showing up you have to doubt that there are enough sources of healthy, properly reared horses, suitable for meat, to be available to slaughter to in the volumes that are required. There is however a steady supply of unaffordable and neglected pet horses going through the auction houses at a tenner a head.

    Vetenary medicines used with those animals (particularly ones that race) make meat unsafe to eat. Conditions that might result from eating them such as Aplastic Anemia would’t be attributed to contaminated meat as its been assumed thats not in our diet. Up until now.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Yes Neal. This is how supply and demand works. In exactly the same way, organic produce is now more available due to consumer demand.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    If that happens I will asses that case according to it’s merits. In this case – the one we are actually discussing – the problem is entirely the fault of the consumers who have been demanding & buying super-low quality foodstuffs with incredibly convoluted, difficult to police supply chains. We have already established these people do not care what’s in their food otherwise they wouldn’t buy it.

    nurse! He’s out of his bed again!

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    zilog6128 – Member
    Yes Neal. This is how supply and demand works. In exactly the same way, organic produce is now more available due to consumer demand.

    Ooooh, you big realist, you. 🙂

    br
    Free Member

    zilog6128

    What you have to understand is that people need food and the amount you can spend on food is pretty much dictated by your budget. But how much you decide to spend is somewhere between that and not a lot.

    When we were loaded we bought top class ingredients from top class providers, and it was all superb. But we were spending the same per meal as poor/benefit folk had to spend a week, nevermind what they actually spent.

    We need to budget now, but aren’t yet poor enough to have to buy ‘base’ food – but if we were I’d still expect the same level of control to have been in place.

    Bottom line – it doesn’t matter what it says on the label, as long as it is accurate.

    Also we are lucky where we live, there is a butcher, baker and greengrocer within 20 yards of each other – and I usually buy the food to cook for that day.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    This is a separate argument, but the idea that anyone is “forced” into buying cheap processed food instead of cheap whole food is complete nonsense.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    If that happens I will asses that case according to it’s merits. In this case – the one we are actually discussing – the problem is entirely the fault of the consumers who have been demanding & buying super-low quality foodstuffs with incredibly convoluted, difficult to police supply chains. We have already established these people do not care what’s in their food otherwise they wouldn’t buy it.

    awesome bit of victim blaming, even for STW.

    Lying about what is in food is a big thing, you just don’t appear to give a shit this time because it doesn’t affect you….. yet. Probably doesn’t affect me but I still think its pretty damn important to be able to know what is in the food you eat, whether you care or not, some don’t.

    I’ve nowt against horse meat, I’d try it, if it was offered but it would have to be officially reared for human consumption with all the legal requirements that entails

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Yes Neal. This is how supply and demand works. In exactly the same way, organic produce is now more available due to consumer demand.

    What’s that got to do with Suppliers lying to customers, yet it somehow being the customers fault in your fantasy world ?

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    I’d quite like to hear the views of someone who’s actually been affected by this, rather than more pseudo outrage from armchair campaigners.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    zilog6128 – Member

    the only people eating these products are the people who choose to eat the lowest quality crap available who clearly don’t care about what they’re putting in their bodies anyway.

    A common opinion that falls down when you remember it’s been found in school meals…

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    zilog6128 – Member

    …. rather than more pseudo outrage from armchair campaigners.

    In contrast your clearly expressed outrage at “cheap processed food” is genuine ?

    So what is the vehicle for this genuine outrage, other than posting on a mtb forum – I’m assuming you’re not, God forbid, a mere ‘armchair campaigner’ ?

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Good point Northwind. If there is a silver lining to this debacle then perhaps it will be sorting out the travesty that is UK school dinners!

    Ernie, the thing to do is just stop buying the rubbish. No market = no product.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Yes but are you campaigning from your armchair ?

    nealglover
    Free Member

    I’d still like to hear how it’s the fault of the consumer, that the food industry is lying to them ?

    You’ve managed to explain that yet.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    Has to be said I’m now “horse-meat-curious” (and how bad that sounds…) I think I’ll pick up a couple of steaks from the local supermarket, it’s not just France that sells it, Spain does too…

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    I vote with my wallet Ernie. I would encourage everyone to do the same.

    You’re missing the point Neal. People have been happy to eat this rubbish for years despite knowing what goes in it legally. The content of the meat is not what they should be worried about.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I would encourage everyone to do the same.

    From your armchair ?

    Or Bill Boaks stylee ?

    nealglover
    Free Member

    You’re missing the point Neal. [/Quote]

    No I’m not, I’m just making a point you have no answer for, and you don’t like it.

    [Quote]People have been happy to eat this rubbish for years despite knowing what goes in it legally. The content of the meat is not what they should be worried about.

    People can be as unhealthy as they like, that’s their business.

    They also have the right to buy food that contains what it says on the label.

    The fact that you look down on them for being unhealthier than you doesn’t change that.

    athgray
    Free Member

    Zilog, you still haven’t answered neals question.
    I am glad that your priviliged position allows you to vote with your wallet.
    I am now also to do the same, however that has not always been the case.
    No need to get the violin and hankies out, however thing were really tight for me growing up. My mum did buy at the budget end of the range but she would not have wished too.
    To assume that everyone who eats cheap processed food is ignorant and deserves nothing better is an opinion I would expect from members of the ‘nasty’ party.
    It does not matter how cheap a beef burger might be. If that is how it is labeled then it should be beef that is in it.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    They also have the right to buy food that contains what it says on the label.

    And I have never said otherwise. I’m just telling you that the type of meat being used is a non-issue compared to the legal content of these foods (as I said in my very first post) and that I doubt the people who actually eat these foods care as much as you seem to (I’m presuming you don’t eat them)

    Athgray, to reiterate I am saying it is the labelled content of these foods that is the biggest problem, not the unlabelled content. Everyone seems very concerned about maybe having eaten a tiny amount of perfectly healthy horse meat but (largely) ignoring the very unhealthy trans-fats etc that these foods contain.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I doubt the people who actually eat these foods care as much as you seem to (I’m presuming you don’t eat them)

    Do you only eat at home and make your own sausages, burgers, etc ?

    Horse meat found in British schools, pubs and hotels[/url]

    Eating processed food doesn’t mean that you don’t care about what you eat. But I’m sure you knew that.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Have to respectfully disagree with you Ernie. That is exactly what it means. On the rare occasion I eat out I have to accept that it could potentially contain anything. Not saying that is ideal or how it should be, just a fact of life.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    Everyone seems very concerned about maybe having eaten a tiny amount of perfectly healthy horse meat but (largely) ignoring the very unhealthy trans-fats etc that these foods contain.

    You’re making two assumptions – one is that the horsemeat is perfecty healthy – it is – but this is an issue about meat that has entered that has found its way through illegal channels and has had its origins deliberately obscured. Horse meat isn’t perfectly healthy if it hasn’t been sourced from healthy animals, that have been reared for use as food.

    The other assumption is that the illegal meat is only finding its way into low grade / low market food – the breadth of companies and outlets effected suggests that this fraud is either commonplace or is happening far up the supply chain.

    Aside from meat a wide range of foods are subject to fraud, mis-labelling and substitution and it tends to be premium foods that are most frequently doctored and they have the highest margins and the most profit to gain. Tons and tons and tons of food are mixed, doctored and mislabelled and the fancy, desirable, wholesome and organic are the foods most commonly monkeyed about with.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Have to respectfully disagree with you Ernie. That is exactly what it means.

    If you don’t make your own sausages, or you eat in a pub, it means that you don’t care ? ?

    That’s hilarious ! ! 😀

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Good points mac, I actually agree with both of them although with regards to the first, AFAIK none of the horse meat found thus far has been found to be tainted.

    When I talk about “low quality food” I would actually include ready meals and other processed foods from e.g. Waitrose, m&s, etc. You are dead right with your second point which is why I think everyone should be eating as much whole food as possible.

    Ernie, obviously if you are conscious about trying to eat decent food you will choose a reputable butcher, pub, etc. But you can never know for certain so being realistic you have to put your cares “on hold” temporarily.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    You are dead right with your second point which is why I think everyone should be eating as much whole food as possible.

    One of the first big food doctoring scams I became aware of, back in the 90s was organic grain, and that still goes on

    Italian authorities said they had busted a scheme in which more than 700,000 tonnes of non-organic food was sold as organic – and sold at the higher prices commanded by such products, making at least €220 million profit, the Tageszeitung newspaper reported this week.

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