Mac (and everyone else!) apologies if I am starting to sound like a knob, but I don’t consider grain a whole food. If it comes in a box or a bag, as far as I’m concerned it’s a processed food.

If it comes in a box or a bag, as far as I’m concerned it’s a processed food.

what do you consider to be a suitable vessel

I don’t mean that literally, I think you know what I really mean. 🙂 btw your link is a good one, makes a good case for limiting food miles as much as possible as well as keeping “big business” out of it if possible

I don’t consider grain a whole food. If it comes in a box or a bag, as far as I’m concerned it’s a processed food.

You make bread from wheat which you have harvested yourself ?

Well good for you.

But have you considered the complicated logistics involved if everyone made their bread in the same manner ?

I don’t eat bread Ernie. The things that go into mass-market breads do not make me want to eat them. Too busy to make my own. No-one else needs to eat mass-market bread either. If people choose to eat rubbish then that is up to them.

Too busy to make my own.

I’m not surprised – do you grow your own tea and coffee ?

No wait, don’t tell me …… you only drink water – which you’ve collected yourself, right ?

No Ernie, I do consume my share of processed products. I try to choose them carefully and limit them, but I must realistically concede that I can never know what’s really in them. I just try to do the best I can. I know you’re trying to score points by extrapolating my point as far as you possibly can, but I’m sure you can see what I’m trying to say as you seem to be quite intelligent.

EDIT : You’re right.

Ah, sorry, possible confusion there then. I actually don’t eat bread because I don’t eat grains full stop (but that’s a separate thread). The ingredients in mass-market bread are a cause for concern, but nowhere near as much as ready meals.

And I have never said otherwise.

Well….. You did say…..

.. It really is a non-issue blown out of all proportion

Which would suggest that you think it doesn’t matter one bit that the food industry has been committing fraud and lying to consumers.

And also you said….

the problem is entirely the fault of the consumers

Which suggest you think that that the fraud committed by the food producers isn’t actually their fault.
But the blame lies with consumers

(That bit is clearly pure fantasy that you have failed to explain yet, despite me asking a couple of times?)

Which suggest you think that that the fraud committed by the food producers isn’t actually their fault.
But the blame lies with consumers

i realise we will not see eye-to-eye on this issue but yes I believe it comes down to the consumers. By purchasing the cheapest and lowest quality foods consumers are saying “I want more of this”. So they are encouraging the less scrupulous parts of the food industry to cut corners in order to make profit. No, it isn’t right but it is the way the world works. If you think this is not the case then I am afraid it is you who is living in a fantasy world.

i realise we will not see eye-to-eye on this issue

Your right.

That’s because blaming the victim in this situation is beyond stupid.

I would have thought given the fact it took you a few hours to come up with an explanation, you would have done better than that to be honest.

You’re making two assumptions – one is that the horsemeat is perfecty healthy – it is – but this is an issue about meat that has entered that has found its way through illegal channels and has had its origins deliberately obscured. Horse meat isn’t perfectly healthy if it hasn’t been sourced from healthy animals, that have been reared for use as food.

The question is, how do you know the beef which is in your burger/lasagne has been sourced from perfectly healthy animals? Given the convoluted supply chains apparent for these products, it’s clear it’s impossible to tell that. No DNA test is going to tell you what sort of cow was used. In which case there isn’t any obvious health difference between having cow or horse in your burger/lasagne.

Of course an awful lot of the actual upset about this is that people appear to not want to eat horse for some intrinsic fluffy bunny reason – though don’t have quite the same emotional attachment to cows.

Of course an awful lot of the actual upset about this is that people appear to not want to eat horse for some intrinsic fluffy bunny reason – though don’t have quite the same emotional attachment to cows.

Personally I have no problem eating horse meat. And I have done many times before.

But I chose too.

What I don’t want is to be told I’m eating one thing, and find out its something totally different and I’ve been lied to.

And I do eat some crappy cheap processed food sometimes, that’s my choice (I will be looked down upon from high horses obviously, but I can live with that)

According to some that seems to mean I’m not allowed to complain about being lied to 😐

Because apparently it my fault.

I doubt the people who actually eat these foods care as much as you seem to (I’m presuming you don’t eat them)

Your presuming wrong.

Am I allowed to “care as much as I seem to” now.

In which case there isn’t any obvious health difference between having cow or horse in your burger/lasagne.

Well it might not be an obvious difference but it is a reasonable assumption that those who engage in criminal activity, ie by passing off cheap horse meat as more expensive beef, are more likely to supply meat unfit for human consumption.

Whilst it can not be guaranteed that all beef farmers/abattoir workers are honest, it can be reasonably guaranteed that all criminals are dishonest.

No-one who is eating these products give a shit about what’s in their food, if they did they wouldn’t buy them regardless of horse/cow/whatever

It would appear that was a load of rubbish too.

Seems a lot of people who eat those products do care.

Who would have thought 🙄

The question is, how do you know the beef which is in your burger/lasagne has been sourced from perfectly healthy animals?

The fortunate thing is the horse is detectable – if you actually look for it, seemingly there hasn’t been any testing for years. But thats the seriousness of the situation, the criminality that has been uncovered and questions it raises about anything that wouldn’t show up in a DNA test but still shouldn’t be there. As a plus… there are generally fewer neglected pet sheep and wounded race-cows than there are ratty old horses and donkeys. At least in the first instance beef is reared as beef. Given the scale of livestock theft though it perhaps reveals the route to market for stolen animals isn’t via dodgy deals in pubs (although in some Glasgow pubs people do turn up with binbags full of crudely butchered meat) but that theres a route into the mainstream.

The point though ernie is that there’s no guarantee that the beef is being supplied legally. After all it appears the only way they found this one out is through DNA testing, so who knows what dodgy cow there is they can’t catch that way?

Meanwhile, 31% of 2,002 adults questioned for a survey for two Sunday newspapers said they had stopped eating ready-meals as a result of the scandal.

I wonder how long it will last. Though it’s nice to know that criminals putting horsemeat into the food supply chain has probably actually improved the quality of the food a lot of people eat. Maybe we should encourage them to do it more often? 😈

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21482127

There is one fortunate outcome from this. The Chosen By You Beef Burritos in ASDA aren’t selling. They were on the reduced shelf for 30p a 2-pack rather than £3 today. I bought loads and filled the freezer.. WINNER!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21482127

Well I don’t know how the qualifications of the head of the Society of Chief Officers of Environmental Health in Scotland stack up against the BBC’s medical correspondent, but he has a different opinion :

Horse meat in burgers ‘could be health risk’

“If it hasn’t come through the official inspection system, there is no confidence that it is completely harmless.”

If “properly cooked meat would get rid of most pathogens” as the BBC’s medical correspondent claims and there are no health issues here, then you have to wonder why we have beef passports, and why beef which is considered unfit for human consumption is destroyed.

It all seems like a complete waste of time and money when all you have to do is ‘properly cook’ it…….according to the BBC’s medical correspondent.

there is no way of telling whether the meat is safe to eat

Interesting. Can they not test it?

Can they not test it?

Yes I believe they can. There are veterinary inspections of the animals/carcasses at the abattoir, as well as the animal’s passport.

what do you consider to be a suitable vessel

Sackcloth?

I have friends with kids at school in Sheffield. They have school dinners – I think they missed the box to tick which said ‘My child must only be served prime, organic meat sourced from the same suppliers wot waitrose and zilgo uses’

It affects a far greater number of people than you assume zilgo.

It affects a far greater number of people than you assume zilgo.

I’ve come to the conclusion that basically he’s not bothered who it affects, as long as I doesn’t affect him.

Which is his choice I suppose.

He should have just said that from the start.

you only have to declare 99% of constituents, as no manufacturing process is 100%. manufacturers typically use this to add money saving filler.

The question is, how do you know the beef which is in your burger/lasagne has been sourced from perfectly healthy animals?

I don’t but trust (ha) the FSA and similar do a good job to make sure it is healthy. Now proving 1 particular batch of beef came from where it’s supposed to and has been produced under the correct conditions is no doubt tricky. Spotting meat from the wrong animal should be a piece of piss compared, this suggests that either the FSA aren’t looking very hard or/and that the dodgy suppliers are pretty confident the meat won’t get checked so with that in mind what other rules are they going to ignore?

Of course an awful lot of the actual upset about this is that people appear to not want to eat horse for some intrinsic fluffy bunny reason – though don’t have quite the same emotional attachment to cows.

That is a bit weird, if it was chicken lamb or some other “usual” animal the national outcry prob wouldn’t be half as bad. Doesn’t mean it’s a trivial matter tho, you’d still be getting your food off of a bloke who breaks the rules and you’ve no idea how many others he’s broken.

I don’t but trust (ha) the FSA and similar do a good job to make sure it is healthy. Now proving 1 particular batch of beef came from where it’s supposed to and has been produced under the correct conditions is no doubt tricky. Spotting meat from the wrong animal should be a piece of piss compared, this suggests that either the FSA aren’t looking very hard or/and that the dodgy suppliers are pretty confident the meat won’t get checked so with that in mind what other rules are they going to ignore?

Most ‘auditing’ (company, financial, safety etc) is now done on a compliance (rather than substantive) basis, on the theory that its usually next to impossible to actually find a fraud (needle/haystack).

Plus its far, far cheaper overall, unless there’s a ‘problem’…

I’m not reading all that.

However the whole horsemeat scandal would have been completely resolved by now if someone had set up a Facebook group or a Twitter campaign.

Or had some riots, like those really effective ones a couple of years ago that led to the utopia we have in 2013.