What hard tail for hardcore trail ripping

I borrowed a Dialled Alpine today for a bit of fun having not ridden a hardtail for over 5 years (but having spent 15 years on a hard tail before that). I have to say, I had a blast once I rememebered that in order to ride a hardtail with any kind of speed you need to be standing up and pumping like rent boy down the docks 😀 (no offence intended).
So if I’m going to get a hard tail, for really aggresive trail riding, what would the short list be, if we’re including the Alpine as first on that list (and no, I don’t want an On One).

lizard

seems to me you’ve answered your own question

with the right answer

dialled alpine
chameleon
BFE
stiffee.

all much the same. pick the one with the nicest colour.

nicolai argon fr,
evil sovereign,
alpine,
cotic BFe
santa cruz chameleon

and no, I don’t want an On One

BAN HIM!

‘All I said was that piece of fish was good enough for Jehova’

Is the Cotic Soul up to the task if your smooth with your riding?

What about the Merida long travel h/t? 3500 or something?? Anyway, prob worth a deko.

Nearly – Merida Matts TFS 350Trail D is the beastie I’m thinking of.

Geetee1972 – I’d like to say a Nicolai Argon FR too, but I can’t yet as mine is still un-built (the one over on the MTBR thread)…..One day I hope to let you know…..

I own a Santa Cruz Chameleon and a On One 456 Summer Season. I’m the ultimate gear-queer yet both are very very capable. Evil (no offence) is overpriced.

geetee : ‘don’t want an on one’ ?

rips the same trails as my Helius AM, in a different, more complex and more gratifying way 🙂

A nicolai would be a great choice but the cost is prohibitive (although the wait for a Nicola might give me the chance to save up to pay for it!)

What colour are you going for? It’s always the hardest part of buying a Nicolai.

genesis alptitude
whyte 19
pace 305
cove stiffee or handjob

Ive got an Alpine, its well good. I’d recommend that.

DMR Trailstar is also an obvious choice, they ride really well and are cheap too.

Geetee – it is the yellow one on the thread over on MTBR. There is a problem with it though, which is unresolved at this point – getting some new dropouts (hopefully this week….). Problem with rear wheel alignnment in the frame – hoping it is problem with the dropouts as the frame seems to be mm perfect.

the Nicolai, Chameleon and the Stiffee are just that – too stiff… lack finesse and lack subtelty.
what you want is a frame that’ll flatter the front end, and 140mm is bang on the limit for any HT ime. alloy frames are just OTT once paired with longer travel forks…….heresy ? perhaps, but based on my experience, true.

how big are you geetee?

i may be looking to get rid of a nic.

auric – i heard about it – seems as though the dropouts were the wrong code no ???

Tlr, I can’t get into an argument about this ‘cos my experience is limited to the Stiffee BUT when youre flat out on a Quantocks downhill and the rocks are bouncing your eyeballs out of theyre sockets how do you feel this finesse and subtelty ?

alloy frames are just OTT once paired with longer travel forks…….heresy ?

Care to expand on that? because that just sounds like plain bollox.

hardcore ripping is da bomb-lulz.camelion=1one.

Loving my ZEN. Lower BB than an On-One and a steeper seat angle to get the weight over the front better. It just eggs you on to attack the good bits. Been riding a slidey drop-out inbred for a while.

The inbred is super stable on fast rocky stuff in a straight line though.

Tlr, I can’t get into an argument about this ‘cos my experience is limited to the Stiffee BUT when youre flat out on a Quantocks downhill and the rocks are bouncing your eyeballs out of theyre sockets how do you feel this finesse and subtelty ?

Id have to agree with this. If your riding smoothish stuff at a slow to medium pace then a ti or nice steel frame probably feels smoother than a stiff alu one.

But if your braying it down a rocky track at about 30mph then I doubt it matters what the frame is made from, its still going to be harsh at the back end.

lol @ dropoff in the quantocks – i live in the north east of scotland, where we have real rocks and proper mountains……
subtlety exists in Ti and steel, esp 853…..

alloy frames mated to long travel suspension fork….lets think about it…..suspension fork provides give and tracking…..stiff alloy frame provides acelleration and direct input without give or tracking………go figure…..sheesh !

So sorry, not trying to be rude but just don’t get what youre trying to say. Maybe you could explain.

The thing is though, a Ti frame doesnt move 5 inches like a sus fork does. Surely all it does is take the edge off bumps very slightly and makes the ride a bit more comfy, particularly if your sat down.

I doubt it provides more grip like a sus frame does, it still bounces about at back like any other hardtail

TLR – not sure yet, could be. Just waiting to get some new ones to find out….We’ll see soon over at the other thread…

ti and 853 frames have the ability to be fabricated to provide non lateral flex which translates as give.
aloy doesn’t as it would fatigue earlier thus failing in service.
now i’m bored.
geetee – buy a Ti456 – best HT i’ve ridden and my Hummer’s also available for sale consequently 🙂

Put a fat tubeless tyre at lowish pressure into the equation and things would start to even out though.

taylforth – true, but Ti mesmerisingly does have superb tracking and feel – if designed correctly of course..superior in every way to aluminium based alloys.

Simply Oil Y

I guess you mean height right? 5ft 11″ – long in the torso though so need a top tube of about 23″. What have you got? I might be interested.

oldgrump – true also, but on rock, you’ll puncture loads and loads – even tubeless (i do frequently)…….2.4″ Big Betty on the Ti456 currently – still puncturing on my fave rock descent….

and no, I don’t want an On One

Good job too, you’re not cool enough to join our club anyway.

hhhmmm,

probably too small (why i’m getting rid), size small nicolai argon fr. in ano black.

the irony is, the on one Ti456 is the ultimate proponent of hard core trail ripping available 🙂

geetee : one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456 one one Ti456

but tlr,

if a nicolai argon fr is expensive,
how can he afford a ti 456? i would love one, but they don’t seem to come up for sale, as no one wants to get rid!

My mate rides a Kobe Ti and is one of the best riders I know, he’s owned a huge variety of hardtail frames made from all types of materials. He openly admits that he can’t feel any difference when the bike is ridden hard on very rough terrain. I do believe that some steel and Ti frames do take the sting out of a trail but the tubes have to be more flexible in order to do so, this however makes them weaker.

dropoff – i had a Kobe Ti, have a Hummer and a Ti456.
believe me when i tell you the Ti456 is in a different league 🙂

A steel 456 isn’t that compliant a ride and is comparable to other alloy frames I’ve ridden in comfort.

Alloy frames can be designed to give a compliant ride – like the RC305 and Whyte 19. It’s all to do with tube profiling, design and geometry. To dismiss alloy frames because somebody who loves a bike with a damned ugly top tube says so on an internet forum is even more OTT.

Go out try.
But don’t buy a frame designed around a banana. 🙂