Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

Its in The Times cant beat the paywall
Cameron to cut public funds for Scotland

Its in The Times cant beat the paywall

Even without beating the paywall you can still see that seosamh77 is misreporting it.

Downing Street risked Scottish anger last night by reassuring Tory MPs that public funds given to Scotland would decrease over time.

The three party leaders vowed to retain the Barnett formula as part of efforts to persuade Scottish voters to remain in the Union. However, since last week’s vote, Tory MPs have voiced anger at the funding model, which grants £1,600 a head more in public money to Scotland than England.

A source at No 10 said that Westminster would keep to its promise to retain the formula, but added that it would reduce as Scotland gained more fiscal powers

Thanks gordimhor. From your Herald link:

Unlike the Reid Foundation, which had no position on the referendum, the board is overwhelmingly Yes supporting.

So it is the same pro-indy ideology that’s just been rejected.

EDIT: And they still don’t have the strength of their convictions to put their names on their cool, web2.0 website.

Well to be fair he’s only repeating the Times headline, so it’s not really his fault (well only for not bothering to read more than the headline).

The Times paywall is a real pain – I much prefer the Torygraph and Herald model where they use cookies to make you pay if you want to read more than a certain number of articles a month 😉

‘common weal’ is an old early medieval concept
Maybe we can campaign for the reinstating of the laws of Hywel Dda in Wales?

The main one being that if someone is starving and refused food 3 times then they can steal food without repercussion.

On that Times article it’s perhaps because the Welsh are, perhaps rightly, aggrieved that, on a per capita basis, the Scots are getting more than them.

bearGrease – Member
So it is the same pro-indy ideology that’s just been rejected.

The ideology wasn’t rejected at all.

Neither is it SNP policy which you seem keen to pass it off as.

sadmadalan – Member
In other news, Cameron to cut public funding to Scotland.
The full story is that as Scotland gains tax powers it loses that share of the national revenues from its settlement. Obvious really

Aye, obvious that the tory’s will rip the **** out of which ever new formula they come up with.

So they’re going to reduce funding under Barnett to allow for taxes raised by the Scottish Parliament. This was already discussed no?

molgrips – Member
So they’re going to reduce funding under Barnett to allow for taxes raised by the Scottish Parliament. This was already discussed no?

You have confidence in the tories not to take advantage of the reduction? Having only part of tax raise powers is a shit idea, means you get the blame while the funding from westminster can be fiddled with, and vice versa. It’ll lead to poor politics of blame.

Is there any chance of a separate thread for complaining about things people haven’t actually done yet? Which would leave this one only for complaints about things they have done (or say they’re going to do) and make things less confusing for us.

You have confidence in the tories not to take advantage of the reduction?

I don’t know what’s going to happen. Not much point in getting down about it until actual formal plans are announced.

Also bear in mind everyone’s getting their funding reduced in general…

molgrips – Member
Also bear in mind everyone’s getting their funding reduced in general…

Aye, that’s my major problem tbh.

I don’t agree with austerity, do you?

Well, I don’t think so. I understand how borrowing can get you out of recession, and I also understand that Tories might want to use the deficit as an excuse for smaller government, but even then it seems odd that they would want to simply slash services without providing any private sector alternatives to anything.

The problem is though that I really don’t know that much about economics so whilst I believe that more borrowing could’ve helped, I can’t have a huge amount of confidence in that belief.

molgrips – Member
The problem is though that I really don’t know that much about economics so whilst I believe that more borrowing could’ve helped, I can’t have a huge amount of confidence in that belief.

Aye, this is something that needs majorly addressed, we need to educate ourselves.

Having only part of tax raise powers is a shit idea, means you get the blame while the funding from westminster can be fiddled with, and vice versa. It’ll lead to poor politics of blame.

Devolution of VAT powers to the regions, inc Scotland would be illegal under EU law…

Devolution of VAT powers to the regions, inc Scotland would be illegal under EU law…

conspiracy!!!!! 😉

It’s a shame the jocks didn’t opt for independence as that would have only left the taffs and the scousers to get rid of 😆

Aye, this is something that needs majorly addressed, we need to educate ourselves.

And yet when ever anyone tried to do this throughout the process, AS quashed it immediately or distorted the facts. Educations empowers people and AS sought to suppress knowledge and deceive otherwise he was immediately exposed for a snake oil salesman. So much for a fair society.

The so-called biased media didn’t help with the Times headline being another example of how a headline bears no relation to the article. Anyway one more bay of Anstruther bitters and we can move on. Hopefully the Ryder Cup will help.

And the Northerners. Don’t forget the Northerners. 😉

teamhurtmore – Member
Aye, this is something that needs majorly addressed, we need to educate ourselves.
And yet when ever anyone tried to do this throughout the process, AS quashed it immediately or distorted the facts. Educations empowers people and AS sought to suppress knowledge and deceive otherwise he was immediately exposed for a snake oil salesman. So much for a fair society.

The so-called biased media didn’t help with the Times headline being another example of how a headline bears no relation to the article. Anyway one more bay of Anstruther bitters and we can move on. Hopefully the Ryder Cup will help.In fairness, you are educating to your own agenda. you only see one route.

Regardless, enough about tax, personally I just see it as a bit of a mess and it will ultimately prove to be a route to home rule and then ultimately independence. But that’s just speculation on my part.

But anyhow, some further speculation, next question, given that the Labour party “may” be in serious trouble in Scotland(There’s an apetite for punishment, dunno if anything will come from it mind).

How do you feel that if miraculously the SNP sent a majority of scots MPs to westminster,(I agree it’s fanciful at this stage) how that would affect the dynamics of the UK parliament?

The SNP as kingmakers in westminster is a strange concept!

I’d guess it’d hasten calls for an English parliament?

I suspect answering the West Lothian question will be a key part of any manifesto for next years election.

Next question, If Scotland gave up the rights to the oil.

How much support would there be for the union? 😆

In fairness, you are educating to your own agenda. you only see one route.

QED

Take the status of a currency for example?

YS is based in the distorting or hiding of basic facts. You cannot escape this. No wonder more people were able to see through it that accept it. And the distortion games continue afterwards.

Regardless, enough about tax, personally I just see it as a bit of a mess and it will ultimately prove to be a route to home rule and then ultimately independence.

You are Alex Salmond and I claim my 5 Scottish Groats.

aracer – Member
Regardless, enough about tax, personally I just see it as a bit of a mess and it will ultimately prove to be a route to home rule and then ultimately independence.
You are Alex Salmond and I claim my 5 Scottish Groats.

Haha! Caught! 😉

Nah, my issue is that I see a certain cohesivness of the left(astounding I know) and centre to left beginning to happen in Scotland that I don’t see replicating itself really anywhere else in these islands.

So that coupled with the Nationalists, and it strikes me that the obvious path ahead will be further powers for Scotland(even after these ones, the question/request/demand for more will never go away) resulting in further distance from westminster.

I would love there to be a viable left elsewhere, but it’s just not presenting itself at the moment.

I actually think a parliament in the likes of Manchester would be great and the making of such a thing in England. (but it could also be a double edged sword and maybe signal the break up of the union in itself).

Basically, I don’t really have a lot of confidence the union will last beyond the next 10/20 years. It was just too early this time.

Incidently, food for thought, a political generation in relation to referenda? Already defined by the British government in the GFA? as 7 years.

(I’m just thinking out aloud here btw, as most of my thoughts since friday have been! 😆 .)

Next question, If Scotland gave up the rights to the oil.

How much support would there be for the union?

Ask Northern Ireland and Wales.

It’s a shame the jocks didn’t opt for independence as that would have only left the taffs and the scousers to get rid of

🙄

interestingly, if you were to use the analogy of a magnet, the converse of what I just said above would possibly be true…

Blimey are we still going with all this ?

You have confidence in the tories not to take advantage of the reduction? Having only part of tax raise powers is a shit idea, means you get the blame while the funding from westminster can be fiddled with, and vice versa. It’ll lead to poor politics of blame.

@seas – it gives the Scottish Parliament control over tax raising, they can demonstrate to the world how they will deliver this social Nirvana they keep alluding to. Whether they have control over Corporation tax is very much secondary. The fact is what they propose costs money and they never explained where this would come from.

The Union will last more than 10/20 years, not least as there won’t be another referendum before then.

jambalaya – Member
Blimey are we still going with all this ?

tbh I think it’s just me really! 😆

The Union will last more than 10/20 years, not least as there won’t be another referendum before then.

I’d wouldn’t be surprised if there was another referendum in 20 years or less. It would be inevitable if either a) Westminster doesn’t come good on it’s promise of more devolution or does it in such a way as to win favour with English voters at the expense of Scottish ones or b) the SNP continue to win elections in Scotland and provide a good track record of managing the country while controlling which ever tax powers come up our way.

In either of those situations and given the lessons that should be learned from this referendum I wouldn’t be surprised by a Yes vote.

In either of those situations and given the lessons that should be learned from this referendum I wouldn’t be surprised by a Yes vote.

Agreed. The SNP membership thing is fairly remarkable. Will be interesting to see how things pan out at the next election.

Although I do know folk planning to vote tactically to keep the SNP out.

When are the next polls out? 😀

Plus, between the first devo vote and getting a parliament, it only took 18 years. After that it only took 17 years to get the referendum……

piemonster – Member
Although I do know folk planning to vote tactically to keep the SNP out.

Aye, there’s basically going to be very little room for any of the other parties in scotland for a while, as Labour and the SNP slug it out. Suppose the outcome of that battle will determine the direction.

Interesting post Molgrips what do you think yourself?

Well just as I’m in favour for increased Scottish devolution and English regional, I’m also in favour of more powers for Wales. It would seem to be a great way to address this:

.. without the unnecessary breakup of things that work better as a bigger country.

Looks like there is a majority for increased devolution to wales.I genuinely hope there can be a fair and workable settlement for Wales Northern Ireland and
England .

those of us in england who are not tories are probably hoping for regional devolution or we are stuffed- I live in the band that is North west that is not Tory

Its strange looking at that as the Conservative and Unionist party is pretty much the English party.Perhaps devolution would help them have “regional voices”?

Its strange looking at that as the Conservative and Unionist party is pretty much the English party.

By area, but not by population.