Well scotland didnt get independance, thread

Well with 1 previous post in the last year – and like your fellow flouncer not a single previous post on the Scottish independence debate – it’s not really like you’re on this forum.

Eh? I can’t see the No voters getting all worked up about this. Or were you referring to the silent minority?

NZCol – Member
The whole “I am one of the 45” thing really irks me

spose it sounds more hip with a hint of edginess than “Loser” 😆

molgrips – Member
I believe we need to focus on reforming holyrood
Genuine non-loaded question as I am curious and we don’t get to hear about this stuff: What do you consider to be the problems with Holyrood and why would you reform it?

Well, tbh I’m still formulating thoughts in my head, but the biggest appeal to me about the yes movement, was the part about bringing democracy closer to the people, more bottom up democracy rather than top down, in that respect I’m still formulating my own opinions, so I don’t really want to go into detail as they are nascent and obviously circumstance is making me review alot of thoughts from pre-referendum.

I don’t particularly think that these thoughts are invalidated by a no vote. I was always of the opinion, that a yes vote would just be the start of a battle.

Aracer
Well with 1 previous post in the last year – and like your fellow flouncer not a single previous post on the Scottish independence debate – it’s not really like you’re on this forum.

Yes that is true, glad you took the time to check my history.
I only really come on here to check out mostly MTB content.

For what it’s worth, I am not an Alex salmond supporter. I believed in independence because I believe that Scottish people would have the right to self determination, without the Westminster circus.

Given I’d not heard of you before, I was wondering how you had such a good idea of the political leanings of the forum users…

Though clearly the forum isn’t the only thing you’ve not been paying attention to if you think the Scottish people didn’t have self determination.

middle class people who vote conservative

Hardly the description of the average Scottish voter is it? Yet >55% of them voted for cooperation and progress. Hang on I’ll just nip out and look for those tartan tories who stole your referendum result…..

I believe that all Britons not living in the GLA also deserve that! But that’s mainly because London is such a massive hungry self absorbed entity.

… nope, no Tories in sight.

A fairer society and independence are orthogonal you know.

South that it was a resolute beating. North that to go from 25% to 45% in 2 years is a great achievement and absolutely a great base to build from.

Sorry, didn’t realise there was a democratic vote two years ago on the same issue. Or was there a dodgy poll that suggested only 25% based on 1000 people who could be bothered to reply?

Do you live in Scotland? If no then this topic is of absolutely no relevance to you, and that is me just echoing what your master ‘call me dave’ said to the people of Scotland less than a year ago.

Trust me, you would have to be Scottish and a working class Scot, to know where I’m coming from.

You should read the link to Irvine Welsh’s blog to gain a better idea.
But I think your blind ignorance will see you OK.

Some good stuff on this thread though, e.g give the Scots their independence and we all keep the money.
Money what money? The 1400 billion£££ of debt owed?

Trust me, you would have to be Scottish and a working class Scot, to know where I’m coming from.

If only there were a catchy name for this kind of argument.

Trust me, you would have to be Scottish and a working class Scot, to know where I’m coming from.

No, there’s plenty of bellends who aren’t working class and Scottish too.

Sorry, didn’t realise there was a democratic vote two years ago on the same issue. Or was there a dodgy poll that suggested only 25% based on 1000 people who could be bothered to reply?

Most polls from back then on the subject of independence put support around that sort of mark.

Remember as well that Better Together has told us the No doesn’t mean the status quo and there’s been some (rashly made) big promises to deliver. People are energised like never before, it’s not surprising that there’s pressure being put already.

Do you live in Scotland? If no then this topic is of absolutely no relevance to you,

Errmm is that right – when did Scotland leave the planet in it’s nationalistic ardour? So it’s ‘your master’ Dave but our master was ‘Gordon Brown’ or am I missing something?

Besides with a Yes vote there were many in England hoping that some forced repatriation back across the border might free up some housing 😈

But I think your blind ignorance will see you OK.

Are you assuming that the vote was about conditions for working class Scots? As in, Yes for better conditions, No for screwing the poor…?

breatheeasy – Member
South that it was a resolute beating. North that to go from 25% to 45% in 2 years is a great achievement and absolutely a great base to build from.
Sorry, didn’t realise there was a democratic vote two years ago on the same issue. Or was there a dodgy poll that suggested only 25% based on 1000 people who could be bothered to reply?

Well consider that I thought the polls were a mile off throughout the campaign, I would have to concede that the polls are indeed a pretty fair reflection of things.

Oh, I thought it was Yes for Salmon, No for I don’t like Salmon – like choosing from the menu.

What was the whole thing actually about then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29314400
For those who think the result was a surprise…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29314400
For those who think the result was a surprise…

May not be a surprise, but I’ll bet he was 5p/50p for a while there!

From the outside, it seems that both before and after the vote the Yes Campaign did itself no favours by being unwilling or unable to understand the motives of no voters.

They have recently been described as:
‘people who will habitually support the status quo at almost any cost’ by Irvine Welsh, scared of change, not scottish or not scottish enough, sefishly protecting their own interests, tricked by the promises of devo-max or duped by a biased media.

Just maybe, they are as forward looking, intelligent and interested in social justice as the yes voters, but decided that the best future lay in the UK rather than an independent Scotland.

Just maybe, they are as forward looking, intelligent and interested in social justice as the yes voters, but decided that the best future lay in the UK rather than an independent Scotland.

This pretty much personifies my no voting friends.

And I’m not appreciating having to listen to my friends repeatedly denigrated by people that clearly know **** all about them. They came to a different conclusion as to what would result in a better Scotland. They read WOS, Bella, Facebook, and Twitter, and didn’t believe that Yes would improve things. That doesn’t mean I have any right to sling abuse at them because I have a different view.

Good lord many of are even working class Scots. Which apparently gives them extra bonus points.

Trust me, you would have to be Scottish and a working class Scot, to know where I’m coming from.

You’re working claaaaas? And they let you in this forum? Wouldn’t bikemagic be more your thing?

http://www.allofusfirst.org/what-is-common-weal/

Molgrips i probably should have posted this earlier when you asked about my thoughts on holyrood. Regarding your question though, this is a lot wider but where my thoughts are to roughly give you an idea the direction of them.

Worth a read anyhow.

Anecdote I know. But to show much much the stereotypes fit. Amongst the people I know who voted Yes, such was their commitment to social justice and fairness. One spent last year researching the possiblity of moving to Portugal for 6 months of the year to avoid paying tax. Another asked me a few years ago whether I thought it might be worth donating £50k to a certain institution of higher education based in the Fens that his son was thinking of applying to. Both these characters have also been spouting off about how they were voting Yes in the hopes of a fairer society. I’m not claiming that they are in any way representative of Yes voters as a whole but it just shows how much hypocrisy is involved at the moment.

Why is this Common Weal idea Scottish-only?

molgrips – Member
Why is this Common Weal idea Scottish-only?

because it grew up in the campaign towards indepedendence. It actually states on the site somewhere the the ideas don’t exclusively come from a Scottish perspective, nor from people that believe in independence.

It’s currently Scottish only because that’s where it was developed. Now given that we are now post referendum. I don’t think the ideas are exclusive to it. It would be amazing if the ideas took root in England and Wales.

The ideas are the valid part here. Spread them far and wide. I did mention that I don’t believe my thoughts are invalidated by a no vote.

‘common weal’ is an old early medieval concept and weal is an Anglo Saxon root word.

Do you live in Scotland? If no then this topic is of absolutely no relevance to you, and that is me just echoing what your master ‘call me dave’ said to the people of Scotland less than a year ago.

Thanks for the polite go away comment there. I grew up within 35 miles of the border in the east, lived in Glasgow and spent another 5 of 6 years working close to the border in the West. Independence would have had a huge impact in those areas. Now I live in Australia, I can look at the situation without being directly involved it gives a sense of perspective that is good to have. Most people in this debate would benefit from spending at least 12months elsewhere. I also now live in a federal system of government which again you should experience before you wish for it.

The no vote has lead to the chance of major constitutional reform in the entire UK, it’s now an issue for the entire country.

Thanks mike, an outside perspective is pretty important now.
Time to calm down and take stock on all sides of the debate – and there are multiple sides.

‘common weal’ is an old early medieval concept

Maybe we can campaign for the reinstating of the laws of Hywel Dda in Wales?

molgrips – Member
Why is this Common Weal idea Scottish-only?

Because it’s a repackaging of SNP policies in a cool website. A site that gives no clues as to who the individuals behind it are which should always raise suspicion.

http://reidfoundation.org/our-backers/%5B/url%5D shows who is behind it, same old SNP faithful.

seosamh77 – Member

molgrips – Member
Why is this Common Weal idea Scottish-only?

because it grew up in the campaign towards indepedendence…

[/quote]

Nothing scottish about “common weal” 😛
Common weal was a socialist London based newspaper founded in the late 1800’s as the journal of the Socialist League, guess the scots couldn’t think up their own name and just blagged one, lol

I also now live in a federal system of government which again you should experience before you wish for it.

+1

I’d also recommend living with proportional representation for a while if you think it’s a panacea for the problems the current system has.

All Yes voters DO live under a PR system! and all the No voters. and residents of Wales, and London.

bearGrease – Member
molgrips – Member
Why is this Common Weal idea Scottish-only?

Because it’s a repackaging of SNP policies in a cool website. A site that gives no clues as to who the individuals behind it are which should always raise suspicion.
http://reidfoundation.org/our-backers/ shows who is behind it, same old SNP faithful.

That’s it play the man, not the baw! 😉

In other news, Cameron to cut public funding to Scotland.

Well done Scotland, there’s a good boy! 😆 would never have predicted that one.

Better together indeed.

Link?

Not quite right Beargrease as this link shows
Commonweal splits from Reid Foundation

Further to that I am not sure all those backing the Reid Foundation are SNP supporters Campell Christie? Alex Ferguson?

In other news, Cameron to cut public funding to Scotland.

The full story is that as Scotland gains tax powers it loses that share of the national revenues from its settlement. Obvious really